Grieving my marriahe

I agree with Unaluna. Buy her out (if you're able to), but only if it's part of the divorce agreement.

You have a big carrot in getting her to agree to a divorce settlement that is fair to you both. If the kids are staying with you, put it on the table that she doesn't pay child support and you don't pay spousal support.

Could make for a cleaner divorce with less animosity than if you are both fighting over support and money and racking up big legal bills.

You simply need to see a lawyer.

I really don’t understand why all this moving in and out and buying and selling happens in the absence of legal separation agreement or legal advice etc By legal advice I don’t mean talk with a friend who is lawyer. Not the same.

I understand it’s expensive. But try to find free consultation or discount services. Divorce is expensive. But so is supporting other people who apparently can hold a job and who are nasty to you.

Yes she is within her rights to move back in as it’s her house too. See a lawyer. What you need is legal consultation.

Well, you tried to sell your home and your wife insisted on over pricing it so it did not sell.

Your wife has been selfish in not considering her children.

You learned from a lawyer friend that she can’t force you to sell your home. She may think she can but she will find out she can’t have everything HER way. You know she rages when she doesn’t get HER way.

You have equity in your home. Once you sell it she will demand her share and she could very well spend all of that and end up broke. Once that money is gone, it’s gone. And if a divorce gets nasty and lawyers get involved that can eat up a lot of that equity leaving both of you broke.

You need a lawyer. Many will provide a free consultations. Many will take a small retainer and monthly payments. If you have benefits through work, find out if there are discounted legal options.

My child's employer has an expanded employee assistance program that applies to everyone living in the same household. It's worth checking.

It occurs to me that your wife is getting exactly what she wanted. She moved out, she asked/demanded a divorce, she pushed her kids away... now, she must learn to live with the consequences of her choices. If she doesn't like the consequences, that's her problem. I know its hard, but her consequences are NOT yours. Your suggestion should be that she moves in with her friends that she chose if she demands to move back. You have the right to say no.

If you can, buying her out is an option. You will need a quit claim deed in place so she can't come back in 6 months with no money and demand half the house because she's still on the deed. You need a lawyer for this process.

What I've been told by my previous lawyer, and my friend.

If you sit down with one lawyer, come to an agreement, it can all be done in a month.

My wife refused that and wanted her own representation.

My lawyer told me my support payment offer was generous, a little high even. She asked for far higher in response. She wanted to push for a back and forth with lawyers, especially over custody.

Once two lawyers are involved, it can be over 12 months, even over 18 months. In the meantime, no support is paid, and no decision is finalized on splitting equity.

A court order to sell the home will be timed to the end of the school year, I was also told.

My wife moved out and got an apartment presuming the sale of our home. She mostly went along with our timeline. She held things up about 5 days or so at one point which cost valuable time.

So, after years of threats, she is forced to support herself until decisions are made between lawyers.

I feel bad about this because she moved into an apartment based on us selling this house by Feb 1st. And we tried really, really tried. Part of what cost me my mortgage was no defined support payments.


What's best for the kids?

Stay here, at least until June. Let them finish the school year uninterrupted

Coming to an agreement without dragging it is ideal however when marriage is as bad as yours, it usually isn’t as easy. If people fight while being married, they aren’t divorcing peacefully either. Bottom line as everyone else says you need a lawyer. Without legal representation, there’s not much that you can do.

I'm scared I might have some PTSD symptoms.

Every interaction with her stirs me into a panic. Maybe it is just a lifetime of codependency, and trying to make someone else happy so I can have peace.

Yes, you are all correct. I can't do anything until I speak to a lawyer.

That will be slow. Maybe years slow.

Today I texted her that I was looking for a lawyer, and that a kid was sick. She replied "thanks for telling me".

I've been physically sick since reading that.

I'm wondering if she's angry and how I can appease her. I'm sick because I can't.

She isn't very reasonable. When angry she's vicious. Once this gets stretched out in duration and she feels the pressure, she's going to be vicious. I'm ready to gamble my financial future to keep from experiencing that.

And, I'm scared that once she becomes vicious, it will remove any possibility of a reasonable support payment, or a reasonable future interaction. She'll fight everything every way.

RDM

This reaction you are experiencing is most likely fear due to how you always felt safer when you gave in and were submissive. This most likely goes way back for you.

Has the term "emotional blackmail" come up? That is when she punishes you emotionally for not doing what she wants.

This is a big reason that you need to have a lawyer. Matrimonial attorneys are accustomed to this. They should deal with each other, and in a professional manner, so that clients don't need to deal directly with each other, or can minimize direct interactions. Your attorney should guide you to a result that is in your best interests, and should resist being bullied by your wife or her attorney.

I have had multiple people extend themselves to me and offer assistance. I should be counting my blessings.

I now have two very, very prominent lawyers helping me find and screen a suitable family lawyer. I can't believe the support that has been extended to me.

Selling your home is one of the top stressful things a person can go through. It means change and unknowns and adjustments. It’s also very stressful to live in your home and have to deal with having it “show ready” at any time for potential buyers. Add to that the stress of needing it to sell in order to buy your next dwelling.

You have additional major stressors with not only your wife wanting a divorce you don’t want but your wife had developed alcohol use disorder that makes her behaviors very unpredictable and at times very selfish and caustic that not only upset you but also your two sons.

There is a reason alcoholism is described as a narcissistic disease. Narcissists lie and even have their flying monkeys ( like that group of women) that lie and believe their own lies and within this mindset is the denial of having alcohol addiction (any addiction).

A lie is still a lie no matter how often it is repeated or who believes it. It destroys relationships and breaks apart families. Believe me, you are not the only one struggling with everything you have shared. You definitely deserve support.

Take things one day at a time and don’t buy into the toxic your wife brings in. The less you have to deal with her, the better. The same is true for your two sons. Your wife has made very unhealthy choices and that’s on her, not you.

I was talking to some neighbors yesterday. Kind people, both retired, and people who were always cautious in what they said, I found.

I told them what was going on in our home, and gave an example of some of the "off" thinking. They looked at each other and told a matching story from their adult daughter.

Then, that's what we did for an hour. I gave an example of some odd personality or memory thing, and they told an equivalent story. Their daughter has bipolar depression and some symptoms of a personality disorder. They lost her for a few years, but she entered psychiatric care and is managing symptoms just fine now.

The lady said to me, Nothing you did was wrong, because no matter what you did it would be wrong. You became the target of her anger. That conclusion was made. She just worked backwards to then justify that anger.

That gave me an enormous sense of relief.

She also said, when their daughter moved out it took about 6 months and then her boyfriend became the target. That's when daughter realized she had a problem.

This may make it harder for me to move forward, because I'll wait to see what happens with my wife's symptoms.

Meanwhile she is hollering that she's oppressed and has to fight, fight, fight for everything.

RDM

I’d be careful talking to people about your wife unless these people are strictly your own individual friends or your therapist .

Sadly in divorce proceedings this kind of stuff is called “smear campaign”. If this was your therapist or your lawyer or people who don’t know your wife, then it’s different. Talking to neighbors absolutely falls into smear campaign. I am not saying you are doing it on purpose but just be careful. She might still move back in but neighbors already know stuff about her that isn’t their business.

Even in no fault states, judges don’t look favorable at this kind of stuff and it often backfires. People sometimes lose custody and get financial stuff cut off if it gets out simply because judge gets mad about it. Just be careful

As about acting oppressed, when they are the oppressors. That’s common for people with PD. Not saying she has it, not here to diagnose but lots of her decision making and things she says point towards possibly PD

Oh my God!

Thank you!

I will be far, far more careful!

I wouldn't necessarily consider getting support from your neighbors as a smear campaign. To me, a smear campaign involves the intent to cause harm to another. You were simply looking for support or understanding.

Having said that, your wife is probably involved in a smear campaign against you with her "girlfriends" and whoever else will listen to her.

I didn’t say that he’s doing it but rather that it could be seen as that. It’s their BOTH neighbour. They are married and aren’t even legally separated. It’s still her house too. If he was talking to HIS sister or a therapist or his own best friend, it’s different.

Of course everyone can do whatever they see fit. But I am familiar with divorce/custody situations with a lot of people . It’s not recommended to talk poorly about one’s spouse to people you both interacting with or your spouse does: neighbours, mutual friends, your spouses relatives, their coworkers etc

Seeking support from a neighbour would be different if they divorced, she permanently moved out and has no ways to ever move back in. If I hypothetically had marital problems, I’d not want my husband telling OUR neighbours about things I might do wrong.

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You make valid points. Thanks for the clarification.

I have mixed feelings about talking/not talking, but from what I've seen/experienced, victims tend to get revictimized time and again because abusers (covert abusers) are unscrupulous and pull out all the stops. It's not unusual for people to break up and for friends and family to take the side of the abuser because the truth has remained in the dark.

In many of the books I've read, there's a push to make sure you don't hide your experience as a victim. It's important for your experience to come out in the light of day, but given that your marriage is in the process of ending, it's probably a good time to practice a lot of discretion.

At present, I'm reading a book titled In Sheep's Clothing. It's about manipulative people. Its rather good. He doesn't give them much leeway, or spend time trying to explain how and why. As he says, we spend too much time trying to understand them, and not enough time protecting ourselves and putting up appropriate boundaries.

When dh first started acting weird or extra weird, I wasted a lot of time trying to figure out if he was borderline, or depressed, or had dementia, or what. I don't know and may never know, so now focus on me much more and don't subject myself to unhealthy encounters if at all possible. Anyhow, early on I talked to a lot of people, just wanting feedback and validation-there is some value in that, but the more codependency work I do, the more it doesn't matter. The more individuated I become from him, the more his actions and behaviors seem distant and irrelevant. We wouldn't tolerate that kind of treatment from most other people and wouldn't waste time thinking about it either. We can't fix any of them, even the ones we're bonded to. Please don't doubt yourself, RD, we all know your wife has issues and you've given away too much of your heart and soul in the process.

You aren't alone.

(((Hugs)))

Very wise, Armor Plate.

((RD)) I think you gain a sense of relief once you share not only what you are going through, but how emotionally draining it is for you. You are not looking to engage a smear campaign

I still think you would benefit by attending some alanon meetings. You will come across others who will relate to the behaviors you have been experiencing in your wife that present with someone who has a problem with alcohol.

Thanks everyone.

No, not a smear campaign, but of course I'm worried about how I look and what people think. It's important that I put that aside.

Moving forward I can see I will care less about what she thinks or says. I am happy that my neighbor told me about their child who was operating from the foregone conclusion that he/she was mistreated, and therefore no matter what the parents did it was wrong.

I have a hard time not reacting to my wife, whether through text or when I encounter her. For a long time all I wanted was to get things right enough so that she'd be close to me.

Thanks everyone. Thanks for seeing some good in me.

I had such a good weekend with the kids. Youngest is sick so we watched angry birds, worked on oldest's old car, did a ton of laundry, went to church, and cooked and cleaned a lot.

I just like hearing them laugh and be kids.

Sounds like you are having wholesome healthy family time with your kids. And that’s the best. They need it.

It’s hard not to react and it will take time not to care.

@RDMercer how are you doing?

Well, any interaction with my wife instills a lot of anxiety in me.

I'm scared for the future because of finances once things are finally decided on division of equity and support.

But this past week I'm good. For now, I'm good.

So... I'm enjoying life for now.

My bills are paid, I paid down a little debt, there's gas in the car, the cupboards are full, the house is clean, and I have people who are genuinely concerned about me looking out for me. We had a full week of having home made suppers together.... I'm ok.

I'm going to say... I spent a lot of time sleeping in a downstairs bedroom. Once my wife moved out, I loved into the master bedroom.

Hearing kids get up during the night, hearing them laugh while playing video games in their room when I'm going to bed, hearing our oldest leave for work at 6am everyday.... I love it. I love the noises of my family.

I don't understand why she didn't want this life.