Have you ever issued an ultimatum/laid down the law with a mentally ill spouse?

I'm so sorry about your situation. It saddens me how someone can be so cruel not only to you, but also her flesh and blood!

You are doing all the right things...and I agree...you're an extremely decent man!!!!

Everything’s all done and it’s all gone to hell.

She called me today and told me if I didn’t reconnect the internet she’d take the kids and leave. I held my ground and ended the call. I left work early to go to my appointment with the lawyer who told me she doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on. While I was gone, my wife came into my work looking for me, and when she discovered I wasn’t there she started swearing at the receptionist, telling her that I was “f-cking up her life” before storming out.

I made sure to pick my 13-year-old up from school rather than take the bus (my younger daughter was at a classmate’s birthday party). When we got home I took her upstairs to make supper. My wife was there and started angrily telling me how she was going to see a lawyer tomorrow and start a divorce immediately, all within earshot of our daughter. I told my wife I’d talk to her about it later, not in front of our daughter. My wife had a meltdown. She shrieked at me, threw food across the room, threw plates at me – I ended up with cuts on my hand – threw the toaster, threw the broken plate pieces, all while my daughter screamed and screamed five feet away. She demanded money for gas and left. Thank God thank God thank God my youngest wasn’t there to see it.

My wife called from her cell phone two hours later. She said she had taken enough pills to kill her, and wouldn’t tell me where she was. I called 911 and the police started searching. Long story short, after several hours of her voice becoming more and more slurred while I promised her whatever the hell she wanted just to keep her talking, she said she loved me but couldn’t tell me and finally gave me a location and she was picked up by paramedics, unconscious, and taken to a local hospital. I arrived at about the same time. They took her by air ambulance to the city, sedated. I’ll drive there tomorrow morning with the kids, drop them off with my oldest daughter and make sure my wife stays hospitalized. Her car was towed, I don’t know where it is.

When I got home, my 13-year-old had cleaned the house and had laid out pajamas for my wife and I on our bed with little notes for both of us. I cried my f-cking eyes out.

I didn't think I could hurt this much

Sounds like you have cuts on your hand, yet deeper cuts in your heart...especially knowing at least one child saw this...perhaps when your wife comes to, you can talk in a calm manner, about everything, calm because she's in a hospital environment...they can adjust her meds there....perhaps, you will see the real her and only then can you decide about staying together or not.....

Geez, I sit here with tears in my eyes after reading all of this. Internet or not my heart sincerely hurts for you and your girls. This may seem a bit derogatory but, I just cannot find it in my heart to feel any empathy for her at this point.

Three girls........who need a mother. I have always had an innate fear of childbirth and kind of always kind of wandered why mothers would do such things when they are so lucky to be blessed with children. (And I'm partial to little girls). Although, I suppose I never pondered the effect of mental illness on that relationship.

My heart, soul, and prayers go out to your 13 year old. I can probably identify with her somewhat. My dad lived 900 miles away when I was that age and my mom tried to commit suicide by pills once. 13 is a hard age anyway. So many hormone changes. I pray for her. It was not until I was older that I learned about my moms physical, emotional, and mental abuse as a child that I understood. (((((((Gordian_Knot Daughters)))))))

The way this went down was certainly not the greatest BUT what I can say........perhaps it was a blessing in disguise. I am hoping that she can get stabilized enough to see the light. But then the question becomes, how long does it last? How long before the next episode? How long before she is back on the internet? Will you have to put your children through this again?

At this point - it has come to a head. Don't let your guard down. Perhaps when she does get some clarity (hopefully), you can make some determinations for your future. I relate it to loving an alcoholic (my boyfriend is one and so am I - both recovering). When you love an alcoholic the quesiton always sits in the back of your mind of, when are things going to revert backward into the same downward spiral? It's something you have to ponder.

Gordian - enjoy your couple of days (time she is in the hospital) with the kids. Relax. Go get a pedicure with all three of them! Get a massage. Rest, relax as much as possible and revive your spirit. I have a feeling you will need it.

Sending strength, positive energy, and A BUNCH OF BEAR HUGS your way.

SPM

((((((((((((Gordon_knot))))))))))))
I am sorry you and your family are going through this horrible situation.

oh GK... I'm so SO sorry.... for all of you...

I think you did what you had to do... it's awful that your daughter had to witness it, but it's not your fault. If your wife had been addicted to crack and you took that away from her, she would have reacted the same way - so you're dealing with an addict regardless of the medium. I am saddened that your wife attempted to take her life over it - I can only imagine how that must feel to you (probably your worst fear come true) as well as to her. She must have felt so desperate. It sounds as though no matter what course of action you would have chosen, she is safest in the hospital. She needs serious, serious help.

This is your easy intro to telling your close friends, I guess...

And at least your 13 year old daughter will understand clearly why her mom isn't home for a few days. When I was that age, I would have been savvy enough to 'get it' but I would have been furious and confused if my mom mysteriously disappeared and I received but a sugarcoated explanation. I would have appreciated the truth, and I'm sure your daughter is horrified but at least now she knows exactly where her mom is, physically and psychologically. And you can explain that her mom is finally in a place to get some help - hopefully better future is ahead for all of you.

My thoughts are with you today,
LMo

also, I'm sure this is the last thing on your mind, but while I remember and am not in the hospital myself (I'll be out of commission for a few days), when you get her cell phone back, enable the GPS feature on it. That should help the police locate her faster in the future, if need be.

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gordian_knot said:
This topic is buried in another thread but I’m breaking it out into its own thread to see if anyone else has been through this.

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I'm going to just ignore everything else and tackle it bit by bit

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My wife is chronically depressed/PD and is refusing treatment. She recently attempted suicide and was found by our 13 year old daughter who called 911. She’s on Facebook and Gmail up to 15 hours per day while I take care of every single household and parenting responsibility. Meanwhile, she declares her love daily to the guy she's having an online affair with, has cybersex with him regularly, plus now she talks to him on the phone and says she wants to travel to Britain to meet him and have a child with him.

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Sorry man, I wouldn't take this from anyone, regardless of distance.

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I’ve finally decided I cannot allow this to continue. I’ve been told that if she attempts suicide again, Child Welfare/Social Services could start an investigation to determine whether or not our house is a suitable environment for our kids. There’s no way in hell I’ll let that happen.

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Alright, I have two questions here...maybe a couple, but they're in my head so I figure I'll ask them and see if you come back; number one, never mind letting it continue or persist, why did you let it start in the first place? Please understand I'm not laying any blame on your doorstep for her behaviour, but it occurs to me that the reason you're really allowing it to persist and continue is because at least subconciously, you've decided that you perhaps don't feel the same way about your wife as you once did? Depression can wear both sides down in a relationship, which leads me to my next question - How are you? Areyou ok? I really hope your spirits are up despite what's going on. Number 3 has a part a and a part b...Part a is this; How well does your wife know you, and part b is the big question: would youreally call welfare? if you wouldn't and she knows you wouldn't, you honestly risk losing control because it'll only be perceived as an empty threat and further weakness.

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So I’ve taken some steps. I’ve protected our finances and I’ve found out what my legal rights are when it comes to the safety of my kids. I really, truly love her and I don’t want a divorce, but I needed to know my options.

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This kind of answers some of my questions, and I applaud you for prudence. Kudos.

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Now comes the really hard part. I’m prepared to accept her illness and help her through it if she wants me to, like I’ve always done, but I’m not prepared to accept either her infidelity or her unwillingness to get medical and psychological help.

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Indeed. I don't know a single one of my friends that would, and I applaud your tenacity in being willing to stand by her during her illness; I think people accept commitment far too frivelously these days, and look at such a word through rose tinted glasses without accepting that with every single good, there is some bad; I again applaud you for knowing and accepting this in your wife.

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The plan I put together after talking with a therapist is to do the following: <ul type="square">[*]Make sure the kids are out of the house and then talk to my wife and tell her, calmly and rationally, that I will no longer allow her behaviour and her choices to damage our relationship and our family. I’ll describe her behaviour, tell her how I’m feeling, and then be assertive and set limits, not as a punishment or because I think this is how she should act, but because this is how I’d like to be treated and what I feel is best for me and my family.[*]First decision is to cut off internet access to the house. To leave it running is to perpetuate and condone her infidelity.[*]Second, tell her I can’t be in a relationship with someone who refuses treatment for a treatable illness, nor is it safe for our kids. That’ll mean that if she doesn’t go to therapy and take her meds, I’ll start an official separation.[*]Finally, I’m going to let my family and close friends know exactly what’s going on, because God knows I’m going to need the support.[/list]Frankly, I’m terrified that I’m starting something I won’t be able to stop. But I know it’s the right thing. I just hope I’m handling this right. Has anyone else been through something like this?

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Gordian, the one thing anyone fears is the unknown, and I want you to take comfort in knowing that whatever happens, I want you to be assured of two things: this is not the end of the world, and this is only the beginning. Now it may well be that your wife decides to go against or with your wishes, but this is only the end of one chapter and the beginning of a new one; as long as you're strong regardless of the outcome, you will prevail. The light in the world always does.

I apologise if any of what I've said seems self righteous, but I know what it's like to hurt when you're standing by and watching a metaphorical car crash happen; you feel helpless, and a sense of dread and horror overwhelms, but I have every faith in the fact that you've seen your choices through for thirteen years, that you have the strength and honour to continue with your head held high. At the end of the day, it's all we can do to show the world that it will not beat us.

Tomfurn - Gordion_knot can best respond to your post himself, but I think he's probably more in crisis cleanup mode than analysis over how it started and what his role is.

But you're right - he WILL prevail - I'm sure of it. He's got his head on straight, from what I can see.

Like the others here, I am so sorry, so very sad for you and your daughters. Like LMo says, you are dealing with a crisis right now, and we are all here sending our healing thoughts your way.
Love
Patty

((((((((((((((((((((( G_K and family ))))))))))))))))))))))))

It seems no matter how much we prepare for the worst when confronting a loved one as you have, the actual response from them seems more intense and more difficult than we are really prepared to deal with.

I believe you have researched everything you could have to prepare fro the anything.....and sometimes regardless of all that, things still don't work out quite as you had hoped or thought. I'm very sorry that it happened this way.

As one eluded to in a previous post...forgive me for not reading back and saying who.....this could be a blessing in disguise. I have a feeling that she was teetering on the edge way before you stepped up with your conditions and what you were going to do about the situation. This was the perverbial straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

I'm even willing to bet that she herself was aware she was on thin ice but couldn't bring herself back from the brink on her own. She needed your assistance in bringing it to a head so she could get the help she truly needs. While things don't always go smoothly in that regard, I'm truly glad she is where she needs to be at the moment.

But, I am also worried about you and your children. I do hope that you can all support one another. It won't be easy, but it can really end up good also....can bring you closer together with your children with love, acceptance and compassion. I hope you can all take the time to remember to breathe together.....hug each other constantly....cry together....laugh together and work on your strengths. Your wife will need that strength. Even if it's strength to do what is best for you and your kids first....there is nothing wrong with that.

I wish you and your whole family peace and comfort during this difficult time. Please remember to take good care of YOU!


sabby

OMG I am so sorry for everything you are going thru. I wish I could help you more. I am extremely sorry that your daughter had to see any of it.

I think your wife's hospitalization will be a good thing in the end. She is clearly a harm to herself, and she NEEDS psychiatric help. In the end this might be a good thing, but right now, I know it is horrific. I'm so sorry.

You go !!! I have gone through similar with my husband. No sex with the other person, but it is betrayal, one and the same. After depression episodes where hubby will not talk to his doctor or a couselor, I finally went to a counselor on my own. After a few sessions, the counselor told me that I was being mentally and verbally abused. Hubby was saying he would rather die than live like this, wasn't going to get old, angry all the time, road rage, etc, things that he would have never done before. I finally told him that I wasn't going to take any of his anger towards me any more, and that whatever is going on, get over it !! A good friend of his talked to him , also, and things are moving along much better. I, also, have a large group of people to depend on and talk to, and you need this. I have worked too hard and live too long to end up like this. Good Luck!! I think you are doing just perfect!!!

Your first priority is still your children do not let the suicide attempt cloud that, your wife to me sounds very spoilt and upset that you have removed the internet from her ! I would go to see your lawyer and let them know what has taken place, while she is in hospital you may be able to get custody of the children to protect them from seeing that kind of behaviour again before they see it as a normal way to behave when you dont get your own way.

I've got time for a quick update:[list][*]We all went to Edmonton, the city where my wife was sent by air ambulance. She had stopped breathing, was intubated, was given a central line IV implanted in both a chest artery and her femoral artery. Her chest was badly bruised from the CPR.[*]I took the kids to a service called Caregivers Support which does walk-in counselling sessions for crisis situations, and they have experience helping families of people who attempt suicide.[*]To ensure my wife was certified by psych for involuntary hospitalization, I wrote out a two-page summary of her history, her therapist faxed over 34 pages of notes and our family doctor, who knows the situation and dealt with her first suicide attempt, contributed as well. But my wife promised them she'd go back to therapy and take her pills, and they released her. She told them exactly what they wanted to hear.[*]Knowing she was going to be released, I told her she'd need to talk to the kids about their anger, confusion, fear, etc. so that they'd trust her again. She also promised to go to therapy 2X per week and have me watch her take her pills.[*]When we picked her up, she didn't talk to the kids other than to make jokes and show off her IV implant scars. I had planned to take the kids to the Iron Man movie that afternoon, not knowing that she was going to be released that day, to take their minds off of things and to do something that was fun. My wife insisted that we go home instead and got very angry and agitated when I told her about the movie. So we went home. Nobody talked for three hours.[*]Within a half hour of being home, she started asking about the internet again. When arguing didn't convince me, she said she was going out to kill herself again "and this time you won't get a phone call". Five minutes later she was back, promising to make my life a living hell. In view of our 13 year old daughter Emily, she threw all my clothes down the stairwell, dumped all of my toiletries down the sink. It was late at night by this point, and Emily wanted to sleep with me in the spare bedroom. Joanne came to the door and just stared at us until Emily begged her to leave so she could sleep because she was exhausted. Then my wife look at the both of us in bed and said, "That doesn't look very appropriate to me." and left. My daughter said, "What does she mean?" and I couldn't bring myself to explain. But she knew. All of a sudden, despite her fear, she wanted to sleep in her own room again. I insisted she come with me, so she slept on the floor. On. The. Floor. Because my wife made her think sleeping with her dad when she was scared was somehow wrong. To stop the nightmare and keep my kids safe, I hooked the internet back up.[*]I didn't sleep. The next morning I said I was taking the kids to the movie. Instead I dropped them off at a friend's house and called my parents to come and pick them up. I went with my parents back to my house, got my clothes and my kids clothes, told my wife I was sending them to be with my parents for awhile to get them out of the situation, and we left. My wife was irate, blaming me. Saying goodbye to my kids, even though I'll see them in a few days, was one of the hardest things I've had to do in my life.[*]Today I'm going to court to apply for an emergency protection order that gives me temporary sole custody of the kids. After that... I don't know yet.

I was breaking down regularily yesterday. I don't think I could've gone much longer. I slept 12 hours solid at a friend's house last night and feel drained, but a little bit better. My kids are safe. That's what matters.

Oh GK... I'm so sorry - how disheartening. You've got to be on the brink by now. I wish there was something I could do. Your wife is completely out of control. It is awful that the hospital released her. Absolutely awful. She has no intention of getting better, it seems.

Thinking of all of you during this very painful time...

(((((gordian knot)))))

Your wife is a Class A manipulator!!!! That makes me very angry...angry for you, for your kids! You deserve so much more than this cruelty that she is inflicting on everyone!

Hi Gordian Knot,

I've been following your story for only a couple of weeks or so, having only come across this forum recently, and though I've nothing to add that might be helpful, I just wanted to say I'm glad you've this place to come to. For whatever it's worth I am really, I don't know what is the right way to put it, sending good thoughts your way. This is such a hard time for you, as you don't need me to tell you, jeez.

You're clearly a strong, thoughtful, compassionate, and resourceful man. Your kids are lucky to have such a dad. All you can do, it seems, is to continue to deal with one day at a time. I wish I could say something useful!

You must be nearing exhaustion point. Stay strong and look after yourself too!

Really really wish you peace.

Gordian...
Like Stingin said, I too wish i could say something helpful. All I can do is extend my hope and compassion for what you are experiencing. And, yes, you are one strong fella.

I guess you were pushed to turn the Internet back on because of her threats of suicide. i'm so sorry your wife didn't follow thru and get the help she needs, as she had promised to do while in the hospital. This just shows how addicted she is, and how unstable.

Your home doesn't sound like a safe place for your children, nor for you, though if you leave the home, how is this going to pan out with your separation? She wanted you to leave, and it seems she has succeeded. I know you want the best for the children at this time, and also you must take care of your own needs. I am just concerned that your wife has manipulated this situation to the point of excluding both you and the children from the home.

Patty

I'm sorry you've been living in hell. You are an amazing person. God Bless your family.

I finally have some good-ish news, and I'm at a point where I can actually use some advice again. It feels like the last 9 days have lasted a year.

<ul type="square">[*] The counselor I've been seeing in our town is also the crisis triage mental health therapist, so she deals with emergency situations. Once she found out my wife had been released in Edmonton she canceled all of her appointments for the day and dug in. She considered my wife a danger to herself and the community and took over. She wanted to have my wife taken to our local hospital where she could then commit her here ahead of time before she was sent to a facility for a 72-hr. assessment.[*] Problem was, because she slipped through the cracks in Edmonton the police were hesitant to apprehend her unless she was saying she wanted to kill herself again.[*] The therapist finally convinced the local staff sergeant that my wife was dangerous to herself and others and she was taken to the local hospital to be committed.[*] But again, because she was released in Edmonton, the doctor on call, despite having previously conferred with our family doctor, was hesitant to send her back to Edmonton and was leaning towards releasing her until he could get more information.[*] But the whole experience - being picked up by the cops, me and the kids moving out, knowing she'd lose her family and her house and her life - must've somehow been enough to get through to her. An offer was made for her to go to a voluntary psychiatric hospital unit in a town an hour away. She agreed. She voluntarily gave up her drivers' license and I drove her there. She signed in, and we talked for four hours.[*] Without going into details, she was still somewhat argumentative but she admitted she had a serious mental illness and she knows that this is her last chance, that if this doesn't work she'll lose everything.[*]And this might be the best possible scenario. If we had been successful in getting her committed, it's likely that after the 72 hr. assessment period she would've been released again. At this voluntary hospital, she's there as long as she and her psychiatrist feel she needs to stay.[/list]So I'm back in my house. And before you go ballistic, I'm trusting, but I'm not naive. I'm not bringing the kids back until the weekend to ensure that she's made a commitment to stay in the hospital. I'm obtaining the protective order which gives me temporary sole custody of the kids and the house in case she checks herself out. Basically it's a restraining order specific to family violence situations. I don't believe a single damn word she's saying. I hope she's telling the truth, but I can't stake the safety of my kids on a slim hope.

So now I come to the advice-seeking part of the post. What criteria do you think my wife should meet before she should be allowed to come home? How long should she be in the hospital? What proof does she need to provide to show that our kids will be safe? Or do you believe that nothing she could ever do would make up for what's she's already done?

(((((((((((((((( g_k & family )))))))))))))))))))))

I'm so glad to hear your wife is in a facility and now going to work on her issues. It will not be easy for her....she will most likely go through a range of emotions from fear to anger to complacency and everywhere in between.

Is it possible that when the time comes for your wife to be released that she have a place of her own for awhile so that she can venture back into the real world with some supports in place? In that way, she will be showing how well she can care for herself first and foremost....from there, you can work on a reconciliation after a few months of her showing positive strides?

IMO, she has a long road to haul to prove she has mended. It will not happen overnight or over just a couple of months time. I don't know if anyone can ever make up for what they have done. But healing can come from all sides with patience, understanding and communication. This will be something that I think should be open-ended and take each day as it comes.

I do wish you and your family well. Sending you strength and keeping you in my prayers.


sabby

I agree with wise Sabby, about your wife's condition. I have been so worried about what you are going thru, Gordian.
I am so glad to hear you are back in your house, and that you, hopefully, will be able to bring your children back there with feelings of safety and love.
I don't know what to tell you about your wife's hospitalization. Maybe others on here at PC will have some insights. I do know, from experience, that people who have addictions can be very convincing and manipulative when it comes to interacting with professionals...convincing them that they are well and capable of going forth healthily, only to return to their previous behaviors. (I'll PM you about this.)
Take care of yourself and your children.
Love
Patty

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gordian_knot said:
What criteria do you think my wife should meet before she should be allowed to come home? How long should she be in the hospital? What proof does she need to provide to show that our kids will be safe? Or do you believe that nothing she could ever do would make up for what's she's already done?

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I think in IMHO, only you can decide what criteria she has to meet. My mom tells me all the time that I have put up with more "crap" from the man I am with now, than any other man that has entered my life. Can I say why? Not really, I suppose because in the end I feel he is "worth" it. I believe you can have all the therapy in the world but, in the end, it boils down to what helps you sleep at night. If something she does bothers you - tell her about it and make her fix it or stop it. Go with your gut.

Not sure about the hospital stay either. I would say at least long enough to receive some treatment and the beginning of reprogramming her brain for function in REAL LIFE - not her created fantasy world. Sadly, she kinda needs to stand on her own two feet in my opinion. She needs to grow up. Sounds to me a lot like a child acting out when they don't get their way. As for the safety of the children - I think there should be supervision by you for a long, long time. Not sure how you trust her at all- I certainly would not.

In my eyes, sadly, I don't think there would be a whole lot she could do to make it up to me. And I would always worry that any minute it would revert to the old school. Her selfishness and lack of caring for the children, NO MATTER HOW ILL, just rubs me the wrong way. I think at this point I'd have to send her packin'. Just my honest opinion.

Wow - good progress! You must be relieved!

Before I answer your questions, I am kicking myself for not mentioning the other thing that I have "given the option" to my husband during times like these. In our city, we have "mobile crisis units" that come to your house, assess the person's mental health state, and are trained to give some kind of sedative-like medication (not sure what they give - it might depend) if the person is violent. I researched it thoroughly a few years ago but I don't recall the details. It might be worth checking in your area to see if a similar service exists, and talk to them to find out what services they provide and what procedures they use. In the past, I've told my husband that he needs to re-ground himself or I'm calling the crisis unit, and I've never actually had to call them (although in the past few months, I realize that I should have remembered to play that card - I could have saved myself some grief, but I had completely forgotten about it).

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gordian_knot said:
So now I come to the advice-seeking part of the post. What criteria do you think my wife should meet before she should be allowed to come home? How long should she be in the hospital? What proof does she need to provide to show that our kids will be safe? Or do you believe that nothing she could ever do would make up for what's she's already done?

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I wouldn't want her home in anything less than a week's time. Anyone can sit around in a hospital for a day or two. About criteria - that's a hard one. Does she have internet access at the hospital? There are three scenarios that could work for or against you:
a) they have it and let her use it. If this happens, then they'll never see her in her 'addict in crisis' mode, so she'll appear more stable than she really is
b) they have it and won't let her use it. If this happens, then she'll either be REALLY agitated by the end of the week, OR she'll be on superawesome behavior until she can get home and then manipulate YOU into giving it to her. You're going to be a lot easier to talk into it than the hospital is, and she knows it. You have more to lose by not giving her what she demands
c) they don't have it at all. If this is the case, then again, she'll be on superawesome behavior so she can get the heck outta there and get home to get her fix.

About the kids... I don't know. I'm not an expert in this area. I'd seek help from someone who is an authority on such things, such as a child psychologist, or an anonymous call to Child Protective Services to see what they recommend. Your kids aren't safe anytime soon, IMO, and neither are you but you're in a better position, physically and psychologically, to defend yourself. I'd keep the kids far away for at least a month or two, as painful as that sounds.

I don't believe that she can't make up for what she's done. She's your wife, the mother of your kids, and you love her. But then again, me staying with MY husband goes against most of the advice I've received from the people in my life, so I'm a bad one to try to advise on this issue. I guess I'm not all that 'conditional' when it comes to my husband - I still love him deeply despite all of his issues and flaws.

I'm glad that some progress is happening. I have a lot of faith that you'll triumph because of the steps you are taking.