Have you ever issued an ultimatum/laid down the law with a mentally ill spouse?

That's great that she is back in a hospital. I hope she stays for quite a while, for your sake and hers.

I am so sorry for all the hell she has put you thru. You are a very strong man to make it this far. Kudos to you for that.

I don't think anything can "make up" for what she has done. All she can do is try to heal, and try to move on and change her ways. I'm not sure how long it will take, or if it will ever happen, honestly.

So sorry. I hope you and your kids end up okay.

I hope she is willing to give it an honest try, but she first needs to admit to herself that she has a problem and that she in no shape to be a parent right now.... I think you have done exceptional job protecting the kids....

From my own experiences being the same position your wife is in that there will be slides backwards.... She most likely will not be fully honest and cooperative for a while.. It may seem as if she is, but during these fantasy mind frames we are master manipulators and will continue the con of saying and "doing" what everyone wants to hear and see on surface but be continuing behaviors behind the back for a while....Until slowly we come back around..

Now I do not know your wife and what she is thinking, I can only assume and give insight thru my own experiences, and just caution you to continue to be on gaurd for a long time...

Good luck with all the next steps. Reminds me of my long-time co-worker/friend's situation a couple years back. Many of the same symptoms. She had a guy she was saying she was going to go off with, have sex with and so on. She had wild mood swings. Not sure of her addictions, though. She was diagnosed with BPD - and your description of your wife sounds similar (but I would never diagnose anyone, that's up to your doc's). In their case, they were divorced and at court, she said "go ahead, you can have our daughter". He got custody but after a while, when the daughter grew some, she wanted to go live with the mom.

For addictions, there are some sites here in the USA which hold people for months to get through addictions. Internet is a new form of addiction that may have different treatments. The main thing is to get people to agree that they were in a fantasy world and to re-connect with the real world and all the responsibilities we have here.

Don't lose strength. You're doing the right thing.

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_sabby_ said:
Is it possible that when the time comes for your wife to be released that she have a place of her own for awhile so that she can venture back into the real world with some supports in place?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Sure. Her mom and dad are divorced and live about 9 hours away so she could stay with her dad. But she won't. She refuses, saying she'd never go back there, ever. She doesn't have any friends within about 500 miles that would or could take her.

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starponysmama said: Sadly, she kinda needs to stand on her own two feet in my opinion. She needs to grow up. Sounds to me a lot like a child acting out when they don't get their way.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> That's exactly right., and that's been mentioned by others. She repeats over and over that she thinks I'm saying that I love her and that her family is waiting for her just to convince her to stay in the hospital. She keeps saying that she knows she'll never get her kids back, no matter how often I tell her otherwise. She'll demand I leave, and then when I'm halfway out the door she'll say "I want you to stay" in a small voice. She is like a child.

And yes, as you've probably guessed, all of the positive stuff she said yesterday? Completely gone today. Yesterday she had hope, said she loved me, said she wanted our marriage to work. Today she has no hope, says she knows she's lost her kids and her home forever, and doesn't want to be with me. Like an idiot, I fell into old habits, trying to convince her otherwise, arguing for two hours. And then I came to my senses and told her I want to visit her, but I won't visit again unless she wants it herself and calls to ask me to come back. And then I left.

My kids are home. Thank God. I cleaned the house, did their laundry, made their beds, and they both crawled in and went to sleep immediately. I'm very glad my house has the voices of children in it again.

So, Lmo says at least one week, Starponysmama says "a long, long time" and Razzleberry doubts it'll ever happen.

I think Razzleberry might be right.

I have been reading everyone's advice. I have never have had to deal with some like like this.
But the kids are your 1st priority at this point. And my best advice is this..
it takes a month to make a habit so it at least takes a month to break it.
Also, if there are med's involved...I know it takes a few weeks before they start to work correctly. So I would say no sooner than a month...if not longer. She has been in this cycle a very long time. Old habit's die hard.
Ask the kids. Do they want mom home? Or would they feel better seeing her at her own house.
I would want her to stand on her own 2 feet. Make her take care of herself for a while. Job, home and able to take care of the kids on her own.
In no way shape or form should they have to take care of her and themselves. They need not have to go through anymore undo stress...they have been through enough.
Now for you.
You have to know in your heart that you can completely forgiver her. If you can...then you will know when it's time for her to come home. But if you can't completely forgive her...it's not fair to her or yourself.
I know you said that you love her...but do some soul searching.Make sure that you are in love with her. And that she is worth the wait. No one would fault you if you decide that you need something different.
And like I said before...I award you "Dad of the decade" !! Keep your chin up. Make sure you take a little time to yourself during this time to clear your head. Don't just have her come home because you think it might work. You have to know 100%. The kids need that and you do too.
You have been in my thoughts and your kids too. I believe you are smart man and know in your heart already what you need for you and your kids. Don't think that you have to wait on her to be better. That may never happen. I hope for her that it does. But she has lot's of issue's that may take years to overcome.
Keep your head up, and remember to stop and smell the flowers.
Stephanie

((((((((((((((((( G_K )))))))))))))))))))))

I think it's really important right now for you and the kids to move on with your lives and take things one day at a time. I know it's not easy.....but so very important to you, the kids and even to your wife.

There are going to be so many ups and downs in your wife's illness/recovery. You can't play into them and ride her roller coaster as it will exhaust you to no end.

I don't know how things work in your neck of the woods, but are there support systems available to her when she is ready to be released? Mental health systems that can help her find a place to live, keep her busy with activities, therapy and teach her life skills?

I'm so very sorry that your life has gone down this road. I think you are doing your absolute best to be proactive and keep you and your children safe. In the mean time, I do hope you are taking some time for YOU to begin your healing as well.


sabby

Whatever you decide, we're here for you 100%.

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So now I come to the advice-seeking part of the post. What criteria do you think my wife should meet before she should be allowed to come home? How long should she be in the hospital? What proof does she need to provide to show that our kids will be safe? Or do you believe that nothing she could ever do would make up for what's she's already done?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I don't know that anything will ever make up for what she has done, eventually you and your children might be able to forgive her, but of course that doesn't at all mean excusing her.

I'm so glad to read the progress that has been made, kudos for the therapist who got things rolling.

Your wife isn't well, she isn't stable. Maybe, hopefully, she will understand this and choose to work on herself for now. But of course she may never understand this, or her understanding of her situation may vary from hour to hour.

Personally I think she shouldn't be alone with the kids for quite some time to come. She could have supervised scheduled visits eventually. Hopefully she can understand that this is for her own well being too.

You reading up on personality disorders might be helpful, therapist might have some ideas on good books. I know you aren't looking to save the marriage, my idea is more along the lines of any support for you in dealing with a person with challenging disorders and illness. Anything along the lines of "how to deal with difficult people" might help too. Probably you will have to use the broken record technique a lot, sticking to your guns, not letting her pull you astray into further emotional turmoil.

You are inspiring so many of us, thank you.

<blockquote>
I read through the entire thread, Gordian, and I recall reading (and at one point, responding) to one of your posts when you first arrived some time ago. This certainly has been a rollercoaster ride for you and you're probably looking forward to some stability. Obviously however, this experience will have changed you -- you're not the man today that you were six weeks ago. You may find it helpful to continue seeing your counselor as a means of working through your own conflicting feelings. For example, when this began you repeatedly professed your love for your wife -- you may find that you no longer feel the same way as a result of what has occurred over the past few weeks and how you feel will drive the following...

Gordian_Knot: What criteria do you think my wife should meet before she should be allowed to come home?

The hospital itself will likely impose some form of criteria. For example, she may need to demonstrate that she's no longer actively suicidal. You also need to consider the legal ramifications -- presumably, your wife has some degree of legal entitlement to your family home and even if you didn't want her to come home, she could as based on her legal rights. Assuming the hospital releases her and she moves back in, the really pertinent question is -- do you want her to be there? Do you still love your wife? Do you still want to try and rebuild your marriage? The critical question therefore is not, What does she need to demonstrate? it's What do you need to see?

At minimum, I'm guessing that you need to see some acknowledgement of wrongdoing and harm. If she can't accept responsibility for what has occurred, how could you comfortably go forward with her? I'm guessing you also need to see her relationship with this other man come to an end. While I am aware that some people fashion open marriages for themselves, I've yet to see you present that as an option that would be acceptable to you. If she won't end her relationship with him, you will probably choose to end your relationship with her. Overall, I suspect that your wife will return to your home in some fashion long before you're ready to let her come back home into your heart.

How long should she be in the hospital?

You will likely have very little actual control over how long she is there. As you've already observed, the hospital will release her when they think she's ready to be released, not when you think she's ready to be released.

What proof does she need to provide to show that our kids will be safe?

I've not read any account of your wife actually being violent against your children but no one could argue that her abusive treatment of you and her actions against herself have not been harmful to your children. Perhaps you could explore this question with your children and a family therapist. What frightened them? What made them feel unsafe? What would make them feel safe? Also worthy of exploring is what can they do in the future to help themselves feel safe? After all, regardless of what happens to your marital relationship, she is still going to be their mother and they are likely to have a relationship with her long into the future. I'm assuming the situation that has been in place was not always in place and at one point in time, she was a very different wife and mother. Hopefully, she can reconnect with those parts of her self but to be healthy, your children also need to be empowered to protect themselves as necessary, such as by going to a friend's home if mom's behavior is frightening them.

Or do you believe that nothing she could ever do would make up for what's she's already done?

In life, we are often wounded most deeply by those we love and need the most. Your question is a very personal one and I think you're the only one who could possibly answer it. Here's two links that may be helpful to you at this time:

- The Boundaries of Rage & Forgiveness

- marriagebuilders.com

Best of luck to you and your family.

I'm trying hard not to get too optimistic, but things are still looking good. My wife hasn't lapsed back into despondency since Tuesday. Her history has been reviewed by the staff psychiatrist who has given my wife a preliminary diagnosis of bipolar disorder type II with psychosis (specifically, irrational thoughts). That fits her behavior to a T. The psychiatrist reviewed and changed her entire medication regimen - including replacing a bladder medication that has psychosis as a potential side effect (!) - and for the first time she'll be taking medication to treat bipolar disorder that apparently starts working pretty quickly. I'll have to get the exact name of the medication to research it myself.

---

I've been doing a lot of thinking. A lot of thinking. I'm sure many of you know how misunderstood mental illnesses are. I'm having to keep reminding my parents - and myself, on occasion - that most of my wife's behaviors are because of a treatable disease, not because she's an evil person. You can't blame a cancer patient for having cancer, for example.

But I've always told my wife that she's totally responsible for either choosing or avoiding treatment. And now she's choosing treatment and she knows she has a serious illness. If the next four weeks pass and the treatment works and if she continues it and if she takes full responsibility to prove she can change her habits and behaviors, can I forgive her and bring her home?

Yeah. I think so.

Stephanie, I think you're right - it takes a month to build a new habit, and the kids miss her badly and want her to come home. I also know that your advice is to only allow her to come home if I know 100% that it'll work... but there's no way to be that certain.

Sabby, you asked if there are support systems available to her when she is ready to be released, like mental health systems that can help her find a place to live, keep her busy with activities, therapy and teach her life skills. As you've probably guessed by all of the problems I had getting her help, there are mammoth holes in the mental health laws of my Canadian province. My understanding is that she could go to a women's shelter - not exactly an ideal place to live. And appointments with a therapist at our local mental health clinic are the only opportunities I'm aware of for her to learn life skills. I have an appointment there later today and I'm going to ask in case there's something I've missed.

I think that everything in life is about weighing benefit vs. risk. The benefit is that our family will be together again, our kids will have a mother again, we won't have to tear our lives apart in a divorce. The risk is that she'll lapse and her illness will start to come back. But I can mitigate that risk and protect myself and my kids by monitoring her medication intake and watching to make sure she continues going to therapy on her own and having all of my legal options in place and ready to go at a moment's notice just in case (an emergency protection order, Children's Services, etc.).

It's not ideal. It won't be comfortable for a long, long time. For awhile it'll be like living under a sword of Damocles. But I have to try this one last time. And she'll know it will be the final time.

All of this depends on the next month, though. My wife and I have a joint appointment scheduled with the psychiatrist on her unit next Thursday, and I have lots of questions, like what should my wife do to show it won't be "business as usual" when she comes home?

By the way... I've really relied upon the opinions and support of everyone here to help me through this nightmare, and I still do. But don't be afraid to tell me the truth. If you think I'm a blind and naive idiot, I want to hear it. I've spent much too long being my own counsel. If I'm making a mistake, tell me.

Gordian,
You are one special man, as many here have said before.
Your wife is clearly suffering from mental illness, and it is commendable how you are taking up the cause to understand it all, and help her get well.
For one thing, I think YOU and your children need to be assured by her and her medical professionals...before she comes to your home...that she truly wants this, that she truly intends to follow thru on the medication and therapy. NO, I would not want to send her to a women's shelter either, but at the same time, you must be certain that she is not manipulating the system in order to return to her previous behavior. Hopefully, the medication will start helping with this right away.
You must have had a good marriage with her up until this bout with mental disease, otherwise I can't understand your compassion.
Patty

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gordian_knot said:

I think that everything in life is about weighing benefit vs. risk.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Enough Said. There is no "right" way to live and you have to do what feels right in your heart.

I sincerely hope that it does work. And I mean that.

((((((((((((( G_K & Family ))))))))))))))))

I truly commend you on all the work you are doing to keep your family together, to help your wife through her difficult time and to care for your children and keep them safe. I cannot imagine the frustrations you are going through and the thousands of questions that must be running through your mind.

As with any mental illness, there are good periods and bad periods. As long as your wife is doing everything she can to learn and to heal....even if she backslides now and again, I think it should be expected from time to time. I guess what you will have to do is figure out what your boundaries will be...what is acceptable and what isn't if she does backslide at all.

I do hope someday your wife realizes what a gem she has for a husband. She is very lucky to have you!


sabby

I think you are doing a good job of getting your life back to some type of order.

(((GK & Girls)))

I have been through something similar, as I mentioned last month, so I will reflect on a mistake I remember making around the phase you are in now, ok?

I wanted my family back together so badly, and my heartaches to be relieved, that I pushed things along out of my own desperation, although at the time i thought it was best for both of us because we had a family to think about first!

That was a mistake. Do not rush her stay at the hospital, if anything, encourage it as long as it does any good, no matter what she says.

My ex knew what to say, and to whom, to get what he wanted, even when the professionals were trained in the manipulation aspect of his problems.

He learned to charm them with humor, promise the moon, cry on cue, you name it.

It is something to watch for, as the sincerity doesn't guarantee that what you hear is the truth, and also, because of what we have been through, it doesn't mean the bad things (untreated illness and personal flaws) are always going to be there.

It's a fine line, when we deal with a troubled marriage, so sometimes it helps to imagine if it were somebody elses marriage, what would you like them to do? If it were some other childrens mother, what should they do? This helped me to distance my personal feelings and enablements to get a clear perception on the matters.

Whatever you need to do, or go through, you will survive it.
This is evidenced by how you have handled yourself and your kids and helped your wife, with all the dignity and integrity you have displayed during this critical time, to know your family will land on it's feet.

So, try not to rush things.

Get to that place of cool-headedness, like you were when you first met your wife or when you remember, back in time, your favorite year or years, what you were like and capable of.

It helps us to feel who we are or were underneath.

This is great because you can see what a fine person you are, and how you are able to attract good things into your life. If you find it takes awhile to feel good about 'being you' - work on it. You are worth every bit of self love, same as you believe for your children, believe for yourself.

Regarding the medical stay, I would think -
let things prove themselves out, like is this the right medication?
do they need to adjust them?
how is she on medication - can you recognize specific things should she be off them, could you tell the difference?

Lots of things have to surface before you are comfortable with her in your home and around the children, trust-wise, because the last thing anybody wants is for her to harm herself or emotionally damage others, right? Yes!

Can you look into someone staying in the house 'if' she comes home and stay with her, like your mother or her dad, someone trusted by all, for a month or so, while things calm down and everyone adjusts to having therapy, having more responsibilities while mom gets her act together, etc.? If it possible - do it - this way, her illness doesn't rule your home - like it was before. No matter how she protests, let someone be the guardian for awhile. It will definately help the kids too.

Also, see that Ironman movie with your kids, ok?
Tomorrow - or on the week-end?
Seek comic relief too - adventures and humor, are so good for the healing soul!!!!

One more thing, I would do this - but I understand - you might not want to and that is ----
write or call this man abroad, tell him of your wifes' illness and that she has a family that loves her - that there is NO place for him in her life, and that unless he is planning to come and take her - kit and kaboodle - you will do anything it takes, legally, to prevent him from taking advantage of a person who is mentally ill!!!! Period!
(Background checks? File reports? Ask lawyer about this, if necessary)?

I would let him know the facts, and that his availability for a sexual relationship with your wife is damaging alot of people, especially her.
I bet he leaves her alone after that!!!! Tell him he had better 'bugger off'.

If anyone is angry about your contact, remember this, at sometime in the future, when all of this is behind you - either way - as in with or without her - it will be seen for the pure act of love it is - to preserve the integrity of your family and protect your wife from this preditory character. After all, who wants a creep like him around anyway?

She will regret this when she is well, this whole thing, I'm sure. This man needs to be told to get lost, completely lost, no matter what, and perhaps he can end it with her while she is in hospital under Dr. care. I'd talk to Dr.s bout it. Either way, this is me talking about what I did or would do. One time, I had the help of a relative and we called phone numbers all night until we got a woman cheating with my ex, and she was told of his families personal difficulties due to it, and she dumped him right away!

Sorry I went on, with many thoughts, but I did learn alot from my experience. However, you have to do what feels right to you.

I do admire where you are at right now, even if it's painful, it is temporary. You are gaining strength. Emotional strength in the face of unknown, terrifying things.
You are doing really well. You are brave and GOOD.

Hoping for happy moments - noticing how many opportunities there are to experience as much relief and light-heartedness as possible.

You have been given good, wise, heartfelt advice from your new friends at PC.
It is a comfort, I'm sure. What a great place to come to with your heart.

Take good care of yourself,
Nightbird <font color="#000088"> </font>

(((gordian))) I pray that she will someday soon realize just how lucky she is to have you as her husband! That she truly realizes the blessing right in front of her... and that she is able to express that to you...you are a great man

Well, today I'm back at work for the first time in about 10 days. I feel very strange, like I'm putting on a suit that doesn't fit quite right anymore.

I took the kids to see their mom for the first time yesterday. We spent the afternoon there, had a picnic, and then we all went to see a movie. It went well, I think, but by the time we headed home we were all drained and exhausted.

I think the kids are doing well. They're getting back into the routine of their lives and their friends which is what they need most. My older daughters will each start to see a counsellor this week to help them. I'm going as well, mostly to get advice on how to best proceed with my wife's treatment.

As for my wife and I right now... it's good. She's saying and doing all the right things and I believe she means it. I know she could revert or backslide in the future, but right now she's walking the talk. We have a joint session with her psychiatrist on Thursday and I've already got a list of questions and concerns to be addressed before we can even consider her release. My wife told me she understands that, like a diabetic that needs regular insulin injections to stay healthy, she'll need to take her medications for the rest of her life to stay healthy as well.

SpiritualEmergency, I missed reading your post before my last post, and I wanted to thank you for your excellent advice. You said, "Do you want her to be [back at home]? Do you still love your wife? Do you still want to try and rebuild your marriage?"

Yes. Yes. And yes. But not without limits and boundaries, which you astutely pinpointed in your post. An acknowledgement of wrongdoing and harm, ending the affair, abandoning her online fantasy life, a willingness to work on our relationship... these are all the things I'll need to move forward.

Also in response to Nightbird, I'm being very careful to keep a brick wall between my heart and my head. In other words, no matter how much I want her to come home, I'm absolutely not pushing for her release or rushing things. This is one of the things I'll be discussing with her psychiatrist. It's not enough for her to be in the hospital only long enough for the medication to take effect. She needs to be there long enough for her to understand and ingrain her new habits. Plus, I've still got all of the legal documents ready to be used in case the worst-case scenario happens again.

Sigh. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. It's still distant, but it's brighter.

GK - hope you're ok - ive been offline for 1.5 weeks and cant spend much time here but am thinking of you.

gk - congrats on your persistence and great fathering. You're thread has been very moving for me to read.

Have you ever thought of writing a book about your experience? You're well-written here and may be able to help people see that it's truly an illness and should be treated that way. Sure, it's not a broken leg or some kind of other quick-injury. But it's something that with today's science, the docs can help people who really need it by fixing the chemistry in their bodies that has slipped away from the norm.

I need to do a small intervention with my wife. She has been affected through hormone changes since her hysterectomy in 2005 and lives with adult-onset athsma and other allergies. She's physically sick about 1/2 the time.

Hey there, Lmo! Since you're back, and the counter at the bottom of your posts is gone, I'm guessing you've had your baby, so congratulations are in order. Mazel Tov!

Thanks for your comment, bonaire. Write a book? Heh. I do have some writing ambitions, actually, for a few years. Some combination of life, family and health - or the lack of them - always seems to intervene.

My wife was home this weekend on a hospital pass, approved by her psychiatrist on the strength of her behavior and the obvious benefits of her medication.. It was... good, even though I was on tenterhooks most of the time. In my last post I wrote a list of things I need my wife to do: "An acknowledgment of wrongdoing and harm, ending the affair, abandoning her online fantasy life, a willingness to work on our relationship... " Three out of four are spot on. She e-mailed the British guy and ended the affair, and she's agreed to one hour a day on the internet monitored by me. Plus she wants to see a relationship counselor to work on our marriage and, in particular, our problems communicating.

But I don't know if that whole "acknowledgment of wrongdoing and harm" part is there yet. She's very angry at the things the psychologist at the hospital said to her during her assessment - the therapist was deliberately confrontational and button-pushing to bust through my wife's psychosis and lies to get to the truth. Plus, this therapist was the same person who counseled me a few times through all of this, and my wife considers this a breach of trust and ethics and wants to file a complaint. She has every right to do this, I guess, but - and maybe I'm overreacting here - I'm seeing this as a way to shift attention and passion away from the things my wife needs to address that are much more vital, like her own recovery. I don't know. It's worrying me. Am I way off base?

I also saw something else, something more subtle, this weekend. I noticed the both of us slipping into old patterns of behavior like a favorite pair of old sneakers that fit just right. She's very focussed on her wants and needs, and I end up trying to make things okay for her as much as I can which sometimes takes away from time better spent with the kids. I'm reading a book called "It's So Hard to Love You" , recommended by the therapist in the city my wife was flown to. It's helping.

I took her back to the hospital today but it's probable she'll be released later this week.

You sound good, GK.

About slipping into old patterns, I understand that all too well.

One deterrent for that is to get another presence inside the household for a few weeks ... like one of your parents ... to pull-up everyones' behaviors and also for the kids to lean on a bit.

Just a suggestion and an opportunity I wish I had during a crisis.

Best to you and your family Gordon. You have been a prince!

peace,
nightbird

That's a good idea, nightbird, but unfortunately not very practical for us. My parents are the nearest family and they live a three-hour drive away, plus they both have jobs. Besides which, my wife isn't very happy with my parents right now. If you remember, they came with me when I came to get clothes from the house for myself and my kids when my wife was psychotic and raging, the day after she badly scared the kids. She says my dad was "a jerk". He might've been, and it wouldn't be totally out of character, but I was emotionally wrecked at the time and I can't remember. Despite the circumstances, my wife can't, or won't, let it go, just like she won't set aside the therapists apparent ethical breach.

On a semi-related topic, I wanted to ask some advice about my daughter, the 13-year-old. She's a newly-minted teenager and by definition she is moody, dramatic and talks mostly in superlatives. As in, "My sister is the meanest person on earth!" and "That's the most embarrassing thing any girl has ever experienced!". If you've ever parented a teenager - or if you remember yourself as a teen - you know what I mean.

After the events of two-weeks-feels-like-two-years ago, I've really been keeping an eye on her. She's acting out more, being more cruel to her sister than sisters usually are, and she's becoming sullen and withdrawn. Yesterday she was playing with the videocamera and kind-of-on-purpose bumped her younger sister in the head with her foot and then videotaped the dramatic wailing that followed. I later found out that the tape she was using, the one she thought was blank, actually contained irreplaceable home movies from when she was about four years old. I gave her heck and grounded her for a day.

About an hour later she gave me this note and went back to her room:



She's seeing a therapist on a weekly basis, and she knows she can talk to me about anything, anytime she wants. How can I tell how much is a real expression of her feelings and how much is teenage exaggeration?

And what else can I do to help her?

Take it from a woman who was the most melodramatic teen you'd ever meet, alot of her note is drama. That being said however, I think if you just sit and listen to her, show some empathy, and remind her that you're all in this together (she's really not alone), she might soften a bit.

You are a very strong man, and a wonderful example of what a husband and father should be! I dealt with severe mental illness (my maternal Grandma was in and out of the hospital monthy it seemed) through childhood, teens and early adulthood, and it is was especially hard in my teen years. You don't want people to think your family is "weird", and you feel very out of control and helpless. My Mom made sure to talk (and listen!!!!!) to us girls about Grandma's disease all the time, and share her frustrations, fears and hope with us as well.

Good luck to you and your family. You are a strong anchor, don't ever doubt it!!

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GordianKnot: But I don't know if that whole "acknowledgment of wrongdoing and harm" part is there yet. She's very angry at the things the psychologist at the hospital said to her during her assessment - the therapist was deliberately confrontational and button-pushing to bust through my wife's psychosis and lies to get to the truth. Plus, this therapist was the same person who counseled me a few times through all of this, and my wife considers this a breach of trust and ethics and wants to file a complaint. She has every right to do this, I guess, but - and maybe I'm overreacting here - I'm seeing this as a way to shift attention and passion away from the things my wife needs to address that are much more vital, like her own recovery. I don't know. It's worrying me. Am I way off base?

I think you should accept that your wife is not going to like that particular therapist -- they cornered her, they pushed her to examine the impact of her actions and she probably feels badly as a result of any conversations that have taken place. Naturally, you are free to continue seeing that therapist and should if you identify it as helpful to you, but if you're going to pursue marital counselling in conjunction with your wife I recommend that you find a different therapist you both feel comfortable with.

How can I tell how much is a real expression of her feelings and how much is teenage exaggeration? And what else can I do to help her?

What I hear her emphasizing is that she feels a need to be strong but doesn't feel capable of meeting that standard. Therefore, you could reassure her that her feelings are normal, remind her that there are different forms of strength and help her find some means of channelling the rage and anger she is feeling as opposed to passing them on to her little sister.

I also hear some hopelessness in her words -- something has happened within her family and it may feel (to her) like the worst thing she has ever gone through. Therefore, she may benefit from some reassurance. Perhaps you could point out to her the areas where her mom is improving. You could also support her in speaking (or writing) to her mom so that they can begin to heal in their own relationship.

Hello,I've just started reading this today & I can't belive the parallels to m own life. My mother was bipolar 1 & had the incredible rage towards my father & a lot directed towards us kids as we had "his blood" & thus were "tainted." I never knew her well. I asked my father after she died (she committed suicide when I was 15 by asphyxiating herself witha plastic bag over her head) when he got sick & he said I was 3. She had no sign of mental illness until she called his office one day & said she as going to kill the children (3 of us) & then herself. That started her many stays in the mental institutions, trips to pychiatist, meds, shock treatments. She was even considering a lobotomy before she died.

She had attempted suicide many times before, usually overdosing on pills, but once running in front of a car. I think you mentioned that your daugher found her once after she overdosed. My brother found my mother once & had to all the ambulance. I had to call the police before when she was beating up my brother.

You say she has not "harmed" the children, but being in this environment & witnessing her rage & irrational behavior is causing harm, I believe.

I think you are being an excellent father (mine got fed up & basically left us kids with her while he partied on his yacht). He said if things got too bad to call his secretary (good old days when the secretary did everything-even bought our birthday & Christmas gifts for him) & she would come pick us up.

But one thing you are doing that he did that I disagree with is not explaining to the kids what the hell was going on. I decided my parents were actors & all the yelling & fighting was them rehearsing their parts. I waited & waited for them to take me to the performance, but all they did was rehearse.

My mother also had numerous affairs. Hypersexuality can be a symptom of biolar as well as the fixation on the computer or the "breach" of the therapist's. The rash, irrational behaviors are also symptoms.

To makea long story short. It was harrowing childhood & my father was finally going to have her involuntarily committed. She found out & fled the country so he put us kids in a boarding school & finally my life had some calmness.

But thenafter about 8 mos. (it was May) she wrote me a letter. She had not oommunicated with me that whole time said she was coming back. That night was my first suicide attempt (using my room-mates Valium). ER, stomach pumped, but no psychiatric care, just kicked out of school. (I hope the therapist is listening/watching for any signs of suicidal thoughts in your daughter or symptoms of-- don't want to scare you, but bipolar is genetically based...)

So my mother arrived home & killed herself 3 days later. & the sad thing is I was happy that she had finally succeeded. She was so tormented. Finally she was at peace.

But I started following in her footsteps with the deep depressions & suicide attempts & ended up with the same dx of bipolar 1. It took a full YEAR to get the right combo of meds to work for me (I take 6 now) & that is not uncommon so don' t be too opimistic that this first try at meds will work.

Also, I'm being honest. A person with bipolar can be doing all the right things--taking the meds, going to therapy, etc. & a relapse can happen anyway due to stress, a trigger in the environment or the meds just stop working. I was stable 5 years & out of the blue had a relapse one and a half years ago & had an overdose. My doc said 5 yearsis actually a long time for someone with bipolar to not have a relapse & that has been confirmed in my support group.

Of course, everyone is an individual & I pray your wife will be one to do very well & your children grow up unscathed. I hope I have not spoken out of turn here. If I have, I apologize, I think you are an amazing father & it would be helpful to you & your family to read up on bipolar disorder. This site has a book section, I believe. Take good care.--Suzy

spiritual_emergency said: I think you should accept that your wife is not going to like that particular therapist... if you're going to pursue marital counselling in conjunction with your wife I recommend that you find a different therapist you both feel comfortable with.

Trust me, I know, and any relationship therapy will be with someone completely different. I had just hoped she'd focus more on a positive future and less on a negative past.

Regarding my daughter's note, I wanted to thank you for your excellent advice. You told me to "reassure her that her feelings are normal, remind her that there are different forms of strength and help her find some means of channelling the rage and anger she is feeling as opposed to passing them on to her little sister." I told her exactly that this morning. Wounded1, I think you're right that there's about 20% truth and 80% drama in there. I'll just try to keep talking to her and with her to make her feel safe and secure.

suzy5654 said: But one thing you are doing that he did that I disagree with is not explaining to the kids what the hell was going on... I hope I have not spoken out of turn here.

Feel free to say whatever you want, honestly. There's no use in me asking for advice if people aren't free to say what they think. However, my family now knows most, if not all, of the details, including our 21-year-old and 13-year-old daughters. I've been more selective with our 7-year-old, who knows that mommy has an illness that makes her very sad and that she needed to spend time in the hospital to get treatment to get better. I don't think she's old enough to handle the explicit details, but she's aware of the truth of the bigger picture.

I don't want to scare you, but bipolar is genetically based...

Yeah, I know. I was plenty scared already because it's even worse than that. Both of my wife's parents, both of her brothers and her grandmother all attempted suicide, some more than once. All of them. And many of them still suffer or have suffered from mild to severe mental illness. Plus I'm told that suicide is a learned behaviour - statistics show that children of a parent who has attempted suicide are much more likely to try it themselves.

So yeah, I'm pretty damn scared for my kids. But I've already talked to my two older daughters about it, telling them it's vital for them to get counselling so they can learn how to see the triggers that my wife didn't and deal with their feelings and problems before they are out of control the way my wife couldn't.