Trying to get out

I've been thinking about this relating to my case today. What hooked me in?
I'm not sure it was the naughty aspect for me. I hadn't thought about whether it was professionally unethical for us to have an intimate relationship. I also thought he was separated from his wife...at least, that's what I told myself. I didn't consider whether it was naughty or forbidden. I wanted to pretend his wife didn't exist.

Several things hooked me in. I was so depressed, all I could do was lay on the couch. I wanted to believe him when he said intimacies with him would be therapeutic and "get me out there" in the world again. Being with him also raised my self-esteem. I felt worthy and special. Out of everyone, he chose me! How bad or sick could I be if he wanted to be intimate with me? I cared about him.

I never thought we would end up together. We never dated. All the best intimacies took place in an exam room in his office. There was no bed, sheets or soft music. We were intimate on an exam table. It makes me sick to remember. I was dumb.

What I went through doesn't compare to the abuse you suffered, but YES I FELT SO SPECIAL--that this SPECIAL HANDSOME SUCCESSFUL PROFESSIONAL MAN "WANTED" me. It meant everything to me.

I swing wildly between gratitude that I got away and terror of what happened to the last 3.5 years of my life.

I'm sorry for your pain and fear but I'm very glad you got away.

I think the boost to my self-esteem and feeling special were the prominent feelings that hooked me in.

I have dated in the past...married and divorced by the time I saw Pdoc. But I've never felt feelings like this with anyone.

My former T guised it under helping me get past my body issues and eating disorder. Wanted me to feel ok being naked and sexual. He initially offered a massage. That's how it started. And with 1 hug.

The feeling special is normal. It was also a big factor at play in my situation. He picked me!!! mE!! Over his career and wife and family. Man I must be something else!!!! Not... He just knew my vulnerabilities and that I was susceptible to his advances

It doesn't matter if your situation never got physically sexual Ramona. The feelings come across the same. I read your posts and see myself in them years ago. Mainly the vascillating roller-coaster of exhiliration and endorphins... Confusion... Extreme hurt and pain... And the anger

It's all the same

"It doesn't matter if your situation never got physically sexual Ramona. The feelings come across the same. I read your posts and see myself in them years ago. Mainly the vascillating roller-coaster of exhiliration and endorphins... Confusion... Extreme hurt and pain... And the anger."

Agreeing with JD ^^^^^^^
My emotions were a roller coaster.

Mostly these days I just want to know "why?" If he wasn't truly after sex with me, what did he want? Just to feel my adoration and desire? Just to feel in control of someone? Just the money? I want so badly to understand what he was thinking. T2 says I have to let go of that because I'll never get an answer. So glad I'm seeing T2 tomorrow.

Another thing that's crazy is going to a therapist once a week. I know that that's completely normal and what most people do--but I was at twice a week for two and a half years and then THREE times a week for the last year--twice a week with T1 and once with T2.

I had absolutely no life. My entire life was about coping with my T1 situation and/or trying to get more money so I could keep going to all that therapy. Such a nightmare. I completely lost touch with reality.

Ramona,

I'm fairly new to this forum, but I've just spent the last few hours reading through this and the previous thread related to this one. It has taken my breath away...over and over...because, if you hadn't explained more about who your T was, I would've SWORN we saw the same T (but mine is a bit younger & not married). Not meaning to threadjack, but you can see my story on the main psychotherapy page ("Therapy Gone Wrong (Unethical; Possibly Abusive)" - I don't have enough posts on the forum yet to post a link).

I am so...so...so f***ing sorry that he did this to you, that you are going through this. But I am also so f***ing proud of you (I know - yay for a random person on the internet being proud of you), because I know...really REALLY know...that leaving T1 was like carving out your own lungs. Like, you have no idea how incredibly strong you are. Truly.

I just want to thank you for sharing...everything. All of this has helped me tremendously -- I know that's not why you shared it, but it's helped me anyways. For the first time in months, I'm feeling like I have to be able to do this, to handle this. Because you did it. And you did it so much more on your own than I did... the only reason I'm "out" is because my ex-T is moving across the country. But, you... you ended it on your terms, with YOUR strength. Just, wow.

I'll be here following along... offering insight where I can, but really, Ramona... you are going to be OK. I know it. I know it because I can SEE you making progress... when you sit down and read through all of these pages, it becomes VERY obvious. I've been where you are. I AM where you are -- ex-T hasn't even moved yet... I know the agony, the utter hopelessness...the gun shopping (done that too)... I even have a 1-year-old of my own!

Seriously... I relate to just...so much of this.

(((Many hugs, lady)))
You. Are. Amazing.

Wow, what an unexpected and much needed kindness this message is! I've felt myself backsliding a LOT today. I've been doing well for just under two weeks now, and today I'm really missing this creep.

You are kind to say that I ended it on my terms--I don't know that I did. I was able to walk away, but I still feel so at sea today. And like I'll never ever get the answers I so desperately feel like I need. Mainly just WHY. Why did he do this? What did he want? Did he actually have any sort of feelings for me at all? Is this just something he does to people to hook them in and keep them under his spell? Cause that's what it's felt like--a spell.

Most of the past two weeks I've just been overjoyed to be free of him. Today I miss him. I look nice today and feel like I have no one to look nice FOR. My husband has been working SO MUCH the last couple of months and sometimes I only see him an hour or two before I have to get up again and do another 13 hour day with the baby on my own.

Just thinking so much this morning about what I've lost--the loss that brought me to T1 in the first place, the loss of this person in my life altogether, the loss of the fantasy--who I thought he was, the loss of a sense of purpose--because for years my purpose was all about finding ways to please him.

You're still seeing your T TooManyCats? Do you have a final session planned or has that happened already? Do you plan to confront him about the amount of pain this has caused you? If it's comparable to mine than I am so so VERY sorry to hear it.

I so so understand the "Why" ... as well as the "What happened?!"
I keep telling my new T (I call him J) "What HAPPENED? I don't understand what's happened to me? Edit to add: Did I just spend 3 years of my life paying someone to abuse me?" I say it over and over... and I don't think that S (ex-T) is a predator... I don't think he intentionally went after me to harm me. I think he genuinely thought he was doing the right thing by me... except he wasn't, and he ignored his supervisors and LIED to them (held back details)...and it all should've been red flags to HIM (not just to me!) -- I mostly think that S experienced MAJOR countertransference, was trying to "save himself" through me or something... I don't know. I don't think I, like you, will ever get to really know why this happened...

I've been out of therapy with S for about 6 weeks now, but we are attempting to maintain a friendship even though therapy is over. S is moving across the country in 2 weeks, though, and he was diagnosed with Lymphoma about 4 weeks ago (talk about a HUGE upheaval... the person who I leaned on to 'take care of me' now has cancer and I MUST 'take care of him' or so I tell myself. So, everything is chaos right now......

S refused to give me a final session. Though, he'll tell you it was MY decision... (Because I said I wanted to stop therapy with him, then a week later, asked for a final session, and he said No... too late.) Apparently that = my decision. He drives me INSANE -- because he tells me that my version of reality is not correct... and for 3 freaking years, I believed that... that I should go to HIM to ask what was real/what wasn't and trust him... because I'm the client... my worldview is messed up. But, I'm not sure on what universe my ASKING for a final session and his saying NO is MY decision.... that's like some of the most concrete evidence I have to hold on to and remind myself that just because he says things are true doesn't mean that they are true. It's such a mindf***.

S is like...my absolute best friend in the entire world. My protector, big brother, a parent, a best friend.... I don't know that we'll be able to make a friendship work, but apparently I am committed to making this the MESSIEST "break-up" ever.

My therapy with J is night-and-day different from "therapy" (can't really call it that...) with S. I'm still not through this. I'm still in the sh*ttiest of ***** with you. I so get it. I get still wanting him back, even now. I get how mind-twisty this ***** is... WHY it's impossible to leave (though you did! You did the impossible!). The nightmares, the hours of crying...sobbing to and from work, crying at my desk...barely able to even DO any work. Some days, unable to parent. This is the twistiest of *****...the worst wound.

And yet... me? I can only be mad sporadically. I'm afraid of my anger. Afraid it will drive him away. I compromise out of the fear of losing him completely... but I know that I'm hanging on to a person who doesn't even really exist. Because S is no God...

He sounds AWFUL. A total user. And he's still trying to maintain contact with you even though he wouldn't give you a final session?

Man I feel like CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP today. Tomorrow will be nine weeks away from him. I know the backslides are inevitable but it makes my heart so heavy. I hate missing him. Yuck.

Difficult session with T2 tonight. My panic has been back the last couple of days and he, like T1, says it's about me stuffing my anger. He does sensorimotor therapy so he was showing me some self-defense moves to do that he thought would help me with saying "No" and setting boundaries--like how I could spin around and disable someone quickly if they put their hand on my shoulder, but to do this, it required him to put his hand on my shoulder--which was fine. But then when I did the move I felt like we were so close and I got weirded out--because I just thought back to T1 and thought "is he just trying to touch me and use me the way T1 did"? It sucks, cause I really feel like I can't trust ANYONE now.

T2 would be absolutely fine with me telling him to never touch me again, but I don't want to do that because I don't want things to be weird. But all the sudden I'm like--"What if this guy is a weirdo too? And now he knows all my vulnerabilities? And maybe he's just been shitting on T1 so that he could move in and manipulate me himself?"

Blech.

I know what you mean. When i was exploring my relationship with T sort of early on I told her, "you can love me but (I don't want you to) you can't be IN love with me...". I set the boundary because I had no idea what she would do. She seemed concerned when she replied, "Oh, are you worried about that...?"

YES!

YES.

It sucks be cause he really thinks I should report T1 and has even offered to do it himself if I give him permission and he was instrumental in helping me get away from him, but last night I had the thought "What if he just wants to manipulate me for himself?"

It's awful. It's a really clear sign of how badly T1 ****ed me up.

I really should leave T2 and find a woman--especially one who's in-network, but the in-network list I looked at looks awful, and to start all over again with someone I have no connection to is so overwhelming right now.

We really didn't talk about the reporting at all last night.

Since I'd been feeling better for almost two weeks, now all my friends who know about this think I'm fine and I feel weird going back and telling everyone: I fell again--I'm back off the T1 wagon--I'm longing and sad again! So hard to move forward.

I was thinking before that your T2 sounded pretty over-involved when he accidentally sent you that e-mail.

He may unconsciously be jealous of T1.

Best way to know is to tell him what you're worrying about and see if his reaction is supportive or defensive

Like tell him straight out I'm afraid he's out to manipulate me too?

This ****ING SUCKS. I was doing REALLY well for almost two weeks and now this creepy CREEP is back in my brain. I do not have ANY MORE TIME to lose to this shithead. I want him OUT!!!

My heart is all tight and wanting to talk to T1 again. I thought I was FREE. I do NOT WANT HIM HERE!!!

****ing mess. Now I'm feeling all weird about T2. Why isn't there anyone who can just be ****ing NORMAL AND PROFESSIONAL? I'm SICK of this ********. I need to fire him too but I also need support so badly I'm afraid to let go of him as well.

I feel like I should just wear a big sign "YOU CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME"

I would talk to T2 about it before doing anything rash. I think if he is a good therapist he understand why you are having a hard time trusting him right now after what happened with T1.

Talk with T2. Be blunt if you want. It's understandable to have major trust issues when you've been exploited by a therapist. T2 should know this. It's expected.

If he reacts badly, then you will know he is not good support for you.

My DD was 15 when she met PrevT, my T subsuquent to AbusivePDoc. DD was furious. DD barely sat down b4 she shouted at PrevT:
"Are you going to f!uck her, too!!?" PrevT did not blink and said something like, "Sounds like you're very angry..."
PrevT took her hostility ...at the end of the session DD reached to hug PrevT, and PrevT hugged her back.

If that's true then yes, you should. It's his job to understand how you're feeling and you need to be able to trust a T in the first place to even feel or be supported.

There was a moment where we were standing really close and hand arms locked because he had shown me this move and I got SUPER uncomfortable. I felt like "Oh my God, he's doing the exact same thing T1 did--and he's a psychopath who's going to twist it around on me and say it's all my fault and he was just trying to help me."

We were just standing super close and having a lot of physical contact and for a couple seconds it felt very sexual to me. I'm in a weird place right now and I probably will be for a long time and it just hit me like: "WTF are you doing Ramona? You're letting this guy do the exact same thing to you that T1 did." And I DID feel attracted to him (T2) and I never have before. Obviously there's been a bunch of sexual **** stirred up for me and then all the sudden I'm halfway in the arms of a guy that I sort of thinking of helping to "rescue" me from T1 and I was like "Oh my God,...it's happening AGAIN. I'm giving ANOTHER quack a bunch of money to get off on me."

I'm not even sure how I'll say it to him but I know I have to say something. I'm not OK with how things went yesterday.

I just sent this to T2:

Hi T2-

I really need to talk to you about yesterday’s session and I hope that you’ll be able to understand. I used to be super OK with people touching me and now I’m not—including you. I used to be TOTALLY OK with it. I’m not anymore. T1 ****ed me up real bad and when you were showing me that self defense thing yesterday I just completely left my body and thought—here is yet another person you’ve exposed your vulnerability to and now he’s exploiting it because you’ve let him know you can’t protect yourself. I thought “he’s touching you because he hopes you’ll develop an attraction to him now too and he can exploit you in the same way.”

I realize that what you were showing me was a method of defending myself, but I just want to be honest and say that all of the sudden my mind went to this place: “I told him exactly how T1 manipulated me and now he knows exactly how to do it and now I’m in this weird arm entanglement with him and he could do whatever he wanted to me and I’d be helpless.”

We’ve talked at length about how you would never take advantage of a patient in a vulnerable position —even those who have offered themselves to you sexually because of transference. We talked about this in the context of how T1 took advantage of me—but my trust is so decimated right now that when we were standing there all entangled I just thought “He told me all of those things about how he doesn’t take advantage of his patients like T1 took advantage of me—just so that he could TOTALLY manipulate and take advantage of me. I'm letting someone do the same thing to me all over again. I am a fool."

I felt scared of you and foolish for trusting you and too scared to tell you so I’m telling you now in an email.

I'm so ****ING tired! Why can't any therapists just be normal and professional???!!!?!?!?!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!