the devil ***possible trigger??***

well uhh...ok then people.

i can see where you're comin from and if you belive in God then of course you're not gonna be fan of Lucifer, but the "satan is evil" thing, i mean, for "satanists" on this site (i know there are a few here) wouldnt that be offensive? i dunno, like...if a "satanist" said "God sucks" (excuse the language, its just an example) then most others here would be flabbergasted, no?

just my thoughts..



but! please!! if anyone can give me some real facts about what modern-day "satanists" actually believe in etc...

that would help....maybe then i could make an informed decision as to my beliefs.

instead of just taking what every "Jesus-lover" has to say ( i mean no offense by that ).

God-given freedom to choose...right?

researched for you..unbias info

start here www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.html

sorry its www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm

thanks so much for that link im looking at it now

hey i really like this site...

anything to do with witchcraft or paganism or sorcery
the bible oks in a few scriptures..killing of these people

and would be considered satanism(I think)..I have probably stigmatized myself...worse than I already was here now just posting these links I found researching

I guess this is why so many are so scared of it

I don't want to be any of the above but do believe in tolerance if you don't hurt no one

I don't have the standard thinking of Jesus and the bible most have it seems here.
since I felt for a good part of my younger life he owed me answers more than I owed him glory since I did not
have any reason to give him glory

but now I have a wonderful life and family that I owe
all to being alive when I used to think it would have been better to not exist...but I still can't socialize well with down your throat christians..that I feel are blind to the realitys of the world...I still question/challenge God...but I guess out of fear of more punishment possibly at the expense of my family I have become more passive

I know we should fear him like you would your fathers love for you....
but some have not had fathers that love them or even have ones worse that abuse them unspeakably

so I feel that is a silly cliche for those that are blind

here is a link with a BB that you can join and ask all the questions you want to be answered and get a better response than here probably

www.paganuniverse.com

and another one that seemed open minded

www.witchcraft.com.au/

keep in mind though this is probably all dangerous info
if the bible is the only way to peace in eternity

I believe all people that aspire to be good in life will have eternal peace...but the bible clearly states that this is not good enough

one of my biggest problems with it,
it condemns even people who lived GOOD lives to a eternal tortcure..and every other religion that dont agree

if they don't become reborn..by biblical standards

I dont believe in satanism since I want to have a peaceful life and dont see any good coming from it even if there is no
God...I'd still want to be a person that aspires for good only
since I know it exists along with evil...God or not

but it is interesting to understand what it actually is

i find myself agreeing with alot of what im reading on the Satanist articles on that site...

for me, i will love you if you love me, but i will utterly hate who i must.

explains everything me thinks..

i was afraid to even click on the church of satan link they gave,at first..but may get up the courage...I really don't see any harm if I don't want to join it

just for educational reasons..I probably will..but am reading allot on stuff in another thread for now..but I did not want you to feel I was against your desire to learn what you want

I feel I have been haunted my whole life...by both good and evil

i actually believe that a house I bought in 2006....that was build in 1907...drew me to it through supernatural intercession...and concessions were made by supernatural
(the original builders maybe) for me to aquire it and renovate it to better than new condition..for dirt cheap, so life would be brought back in it before its 100 year birthday..just a recent feeling..but have had even more recent things happen also

I think these are good spirits though

but my whole life I think good,bad,lost spirits have tried to communicate with me...far back as I can remember to age 2 or 3..and now

"not sure why they have"..but this is probably my main reason for not becoming a nonbeliever, and I know it sounds crazy..but I have had to many dreams and real life experiances to not believe this..as well as a detached since from normal reality my whole life

I can feel why you feel you should hate some that you feel you must....I have been there as well,maybe in a different way though

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
blah__x said:
for me, i will love you if you love me, but i will utterly hate who i must.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Blah

I have a problem with this statement because of my experience with hatred on both sides. I believe hatred is merely fear and resentment toward others. It may strengthen the body, but it weakens the soul. It gives power and control to your perceived "enemies." If you are successful in destroying your enemy, it will only transfer that fear and resentment - creating more enemies. I don't believe in the power of hatred. It's a vicious circle that never ends. It will never set you free, keep you safe, or give you peace of mind. You'll either find yourself hiding in a bunker, imprisoned in a jail cell, or six feet under in a casket.

I believe in the power of love. If you can find the strength to release your fear and resentment, you'll find you have no "enemies" - only fellow human beings. Some can be trusted, others you can't trust. However, it's not necessary to hate those you don't trust. You only need to stay aware, keep a safe distance from them, and protect your....kidneys. If they hold hatred in their hearts towards you, try to show compassion for their fear and resentment, and you'll be able to walk tall and free in this world.

If you feel you must hold hatred for someone, be sure it's someone worth losing everything you have, including your life and everything you love.

good point of view KathyM... for myself, i am ready for any who threaten my own life, or those whom i love, but prefer Peace...

Hatred may seem entirely justified sometimes, but the thing about hatred is, you may think it is directed toward your enemies. In truth, if you allow hatred to dwell in your heart, you are the one who will be destoryed by it. Hatred is corrosive and will eat you up from the inside out. It serves no useful purpose.

I hope I have not made it appear that I condone this feeling,
and I could be wrong but I feel her statement went way deeper than most may comprehend

I agree with you rapunzel,and my view is that hate is like cancer,it just grows inside us and does no good

but it is hard to not hate those that do so much that is unspeakable ..maybe hate is not the word that should be used for this..but there should be a word that is acceptable
imo..and I don't feel it should be love...since I have experianced more back turning in real life from preachers of love just for having inquisition..than any form of love I know is real

I don't see where the Bible condemns people who have lived good lives to eternal torture. The God that I know is a loving father who wants nothing more than for His children to return to him and to have joy. He does know that we will never reach our potential without knowing opposition, and like a good parent, He will not protect us from the consequences of our own choices. He is bound to uphold the demands of justice. Those who are not prepared or not worthy would not be comfortable in His direct presence, and would probably be destroyed. Therefore, God has prepared a place for each that will be the most comfortable and the most appropriate and the most rewarding according to our own choices and preparation.

If you like, I can find scriptural references for this later. I am LDS, and we believe in the Bible, as well as in other books of scripture that complement the Bible. Here is a link that explains what I believe about heaven:

http://mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basi...eternal-reward

There is more at that link, but here is a short summary about the three kingdoms of heaven:
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After you are judged, you will live in a state of glory. Because everyone’s works and righteous desires vary, heaven includes different kingdoms, or degrees of glory.

Celestial kingdom—Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ reside in the celestial kingdom. If you live according to the gospel of Jesus Christ and are cleansed from sin by the Atonement, you will receive a place in this, the highest kingdom, where you will live in God’s presence and know complete joy.
Terrestrial kingdom—People who refuse to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives will receive a place in the terrestrial kingdom.
Telestial kingdom—Those who continue in their sins and do not repent until after they have died, will eventually receive a place in the telestial kingdom.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
The only ones who will be cast out or punished eternally will be those who know God's plan and willfully reject it, attempting to bring others down with them in most cases. All will have the opportunity to learn what they need to continue their progression, and may choose whether or not to accept it (whether in this life or after), and will be accountable for what they have been taught.

The Telestial Kingdom, by the way, is like what most conceive of as heaven. It is just beyond the best that we can imagine. The other kingdoms are better and provide more opportunity for further progression.

A word regarding those who do so much that is unspeakable. How about "to hold in comtempt?" I'm not sure that captures it, but, Eddie, I do think that I understand what you mean.

thank you rapunzel..that sounds better than love or hate to me..maybe that is a good word for it

I will have to pinpoint my comprehension in my previous statement about eternal torture for those that have "still" lived good lifes in other religions,without belief in jesus.since it has been so long ago that I comprehended this..man even made a word called apostate for this and many people have been put to death for apostacy..the bible warns of false teachers and this is the word man made for them

but I believe it was Jesus describing how you can not get to the kingdom by works or deeds alone...but only through
believing and accepting him as the lord and saviour
and being reborn
I'll have to find how it actually says it to pinpoint..since this may be off a little or allot..and only from memory

there is no measurement of a sin(it says) or different levels in heaven(my comprehension)..and the parable of the vienyard keeper explains this to me as well as the thief on the cross next to jesus..that our reward in heaven would be the same if we accept and live our whole life or just the last few seconds

I guess to me that all this means that u can only make it to heaven by being reborn .......and accepting jesus as lord and saviour

not by living a GOOD life as a atheist,evolutionist or any other way of life,religion...that can be GOOD as well

and the punishment is eternal hell/torture..for not being a reborn jesus believer
as I have said before my mind changes and I may miscomprehend stuff but never stop trying to see others views as well
the biggest contradiction in the bible at this point to me is when god said he is not the author of confusion...

since this is probably the most confusing thing to comprehend(the same)for people around the world...maybe not for you or many believers but world history has proven mass confusion for this reason

If there was different levels of the kingdom or degrees of glory..as I have heard some describe by jewels for their crown..its so they(humans) could feel at a higher level for their works in my opinion here on earth..and one of the flawed contrary parts by mans hand of the bible in my opinion

they are using their carnal mind to get higher glory than others..if I did have a crown full of jewels(works) i would throw it at the feet of jesus in his presence..

once again the veiynard keeper parable disproves or maybe contradicts(the bible) others comprehension of this to me

after further reflection on this, also the analogy described in Mathew (I think)about the narrow gates to heaven and broad gates to hell would disprove/contradict the different level theory to me as well..since to me this says many many more will go to hell than heaven

the quoted theory says almost everyone will make it to one level or another imo..since I dont believe any that have had a chance even after death to accept jesus would "not" knowing the price they would pay..thats just insane to me

but everything is always left to other comprehensions..as always

but it is a appealing theory " to me"

btw not that this matters..but Mormons are probably the most "hated" denomination in my geographical location

from what I comprehend..and even was told by a preacher one time when discussing different denominations and their beliefs,all the way down to Primitive Baptists

is despise a word you could use instead of hate?

sure I really don't care what word is used ...I think people feel how they feel no matter what some may say or the word that is used..it is still usually the same feeling till they feel different

Let me know if you all want me to share in this thread.

I would love to hear what you have to say..

Gabriel...I hope you don't mind? I think you have all the information you were looking now?

before you correct me about the vineyard keeper parable sky...

I am talking about the one where the vineyard owner go's into town for workers all the way to the last hour of the day but pays them all the same

there could be another parable that one might think I am refering to
about the barren fig tree

I really should have a bible here to quote from I guess

yeah for now i have enough..i think.....

well ive decided that i am not a "satanist" in any form, just a messed up agnostic ..

i might be back though for more, but for now feel free to go condemn every religion but Christianity like some of you usually do ( not saying that to anyone in particular ).

oh and about "hatred". using another word for it doesnt change its meaning.

when i say hate, i generally mean HATE.

i believe in vengeance ( as necessary ) but like most others would prefer to live in peace. that doesnt mean i'll turn the other cheek for scum.

ya I get that
thats why I said the word used probably dont matter, it is the same feeling till someone feels different

My mother was agnostic.

"a wrong is unredressed when retribution overtakes its redresser,it is equally unredressed when the avenger fails to make their self such to them who has done the wrong"

from edgar allen poe, Cast of Amontillado I have felt the same way in my life at one time,so I did not mean to sound arbitrary before...this is probably the best story their is on vengeance...I memorized a good part of it in about 8th grade

I have hated life before...only it was to hard for me to get vengeance on that LOL