the devil ***possible trigger??***

To no one in particular: Well, I don't wish to jump into the middle of any discussion, actually. I would like to interject though that if someone is going to use the Bible as reference, then they ought to be actively reading it, for accuracy. I personally know that there are many beliefs about these subjects, and everyone is "entitled" to what they want to believe. (That doesn't make anyone right by belief.) I do wish that if you are supposedly "quoting" what the Bible says, that you do so accurately, and also follow it with an accurate analysis. I am really in amazement though that this topic is so hot right at the time Christians celebrate the birth of the Savior, Jesus Christ, and I don't believe in coincidences. TC

Pssssst...Blah - I'm not a Christian. When I refer to God, I'm also referring to whatever name others have given him/her/it (Great Spirit, Allah, Higher Power, etc.). "God" has never told me his/her name, and I doubt he speaks in the English language. Sometimes when I'm feeling frisky I'll call him "Joe" - so far I haven't been struck by lightning, lol.

There is nothing wrong with being agnostic. You have an open mind, but you're not easily fooled into following the crowd. I admire that in you.

Sky - It's not amazing to me. Those of us who do not worship Jesus, it can be tiresome to be surrounded by "Christmas" everywhere we turn. For me, it only brings back memories of the hypocrisy, arrogance, lies and greed I've experienced in my own life with Christianity. I'm not impressed by phony seasonal smiles, fancy food, or glittery objects. I don't need any gifts, and I can't be bought. I care about ALL people, regardless of race, culture or religion. For this, I'm hated (or should I say "despised") by Christians.

Wouldn't it be tiresome to you if you were surrounded by "cheerful" celebrations of Islam and messages from Muhammad? Wouldn't it be frustrating to you if these "cheerful" people insisted on reminding you that you and your loved ones would never make it to heaven because you don't worship Muhammad? Wouldn't you be tempted to speak of your own beliefs - or question theirs?

((((((((kathym))))))

thankyou for this well needed comment.......

the devil wears many faces, just as God does ....

I think unless you go to church and are an avid bible reader some peole just wont accept anything else..I give up...I respect devout christians as well as any other religion, but find them the most intolerant unfortunately.....I would never dream of belittling someones beliefs,I just want them to tolerate others....today I was told I am not a Christian.....how intolerant is that.....I believein God but am not an avid reader of the bible....I read and believe other things too...does this mean I can't believe in many things?

BIZARRE.....been told I cant be CHRISTIAN AND A PAGAN....I can do what I like...I can believe in all sorts.....God is in my life in many ways....why cant people understand there is not only one way?????

I will not back down on this.....

Jin x

wow...Sky I dont think it takes a biblical scholar to see who you mean...but if you reread everything I say...it is not a qoute..but my comprehension....and I make that point many times

I even said I guess I should qoute...just for you since I knew thats what you'd expect

but I know the stories and I also know you I or anyone else can comprehend them many different ways, this is fact...if you don't agree that the "parable" I was refering to says what I think it says...
after paying all the workers the same..if they worked 1 or 12 hours ...thats fine .....
but to write the whole parable out to qoute..or any other story/lesson/analogy is just a silly thing to do here imo...
but I think "that" parable contradicts the Mormon theory..thats all I was getting at.....its a parable though...thats why it can be comprehended many ways...as well as the rest of the bible
heck at first I just thought it ment life is not fair "LOL"...but I never stopped trying to understand it .....and still may not

I am surrounded by people that seem to take more pride in their christan status or regular church attendence...than wether or not they can really fish for men like it says...I get tierd of the casting of pearls at swine/etc excuse used..... when people who take such pride in their selfs...don't catch the "REALLY BIG FISH" they are after

I believe in a God ...but get tierd of religious discrimination in the work place,church & real world

I get tierd of down your throat bible thumper's

but I never get tierd of the "Holiday season" giving and sharing......or belief in something of higher power than I,
I refuse to conform to the many who seem to be up higher on a pedestal than I though...and I am shunned/pityed by the preachers of love around me just for being myself and not joining their one sided beliefs...I don't combat them,on the contrary they combat me...
BTW....I can qoute but my comprehension remains the same....I have been down the active bible study road enough to know it can be comprehended,contradicted and used many many many ways...none of which can be proven as fact....except the fact that there are contradictions
that believers have to add words and theroys to disprove the fact that they are contrary...but if we get into that maybe it should be by pm...

I was not as fortunate/blessed as some as a child to be able to go to college or even finish high school, do to real life needs....but I feel comfortable saying I can read/comprehend/qoute it as well as any...with it sitting in my lap

please feel free to pm me if you would like to express more ....since I am receptive to others views...just I also have my own..

JinnyAnn said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
BIZARRE.....been told I cant be CHRISTIAN AND A PAGAN....I can do what I like...I can believe in all sorts.....God is in my life in many ways....why cant people understand there is not only one way?????

I will not back down on this.....

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

it is a shame and a horror when someone whom claims to love God, know God, uses their belief to cast exclusion and shame on others of Gods' children in Gods' name..

((nowheretorun))..AMEN

Amen.


actually as the person who started this thread, i'll say that this post had nothing to do with the time of year, rather it started out of curiosity of how people view me when i say "Lucifer". only now i've concluded that i'll call him my Bestest Little Buddy for all i care of how people view me.

as far as it being popular because of the time of year, belive what you want. imho, its a topic that people find of interest because its usually not spoken so openly about.


anyway its not that i have a problem with people expressing their own beliefs..its when the particular beliefs that they express condemn others, that i start twitching.

so just...try to keep this thread going i was enjoing the read..but ..try to keep it civil..stay out of a debate..lets not repeat the crusades... eh..?

((((((((( Everyone ))))))))))))) (all beliefs included in the hug)

Feelings run so hot, and that is to be expected when we talk about anything that means so much to so many. There is a lot that I would like to respond to in this thread, and my time has been limited. I apologize for not being able to get here sooner.

Let's renew a few ground rules. We are not here to debate one side being right and another wrong. People do interpret scripture and teachings and beliefs in many ways. Sometimes one's beliefs may directly contradict someone else's. Remember that we are not here to find out who is right and who is wrong. I hope that we can get back to a mutual sharing, without criticism of each other's beliefs or posting styles.

Some do believe that their is absolute truth. Others believe that there are many possibilities at the same time, and they want to keep their options open and not be limited. Maybe they have not found anything they are convinced is "the truth" and maybe they are still searching, or maybe they are happy where they are. Those who believe in absolute truth often believe that what they believe is the one and only truth, and feel that very strongly. That is fine too, as long as they accept that everyone has a choice and is allowed to do it their own way.

I do know what it is like to be hated for my beliefs. Perhaps that was part of why I came to Utah, where there is safety in numbers for me. There are those here who hate us also. Eddie, I grew up witnessing all of that hatred that you mention. It is part of our history, although it has been almost 30 years now (not quite) since any of the U.S. states had laws on their books that said that Mormons were to be "exterminated" for their beliefs. That was also done by people who called themselves Christians.

I am a Christian, and I can appreciate truths where I find them. I am not a Pagan, and some Pagan practices would be contrary to what I believe. But I can still appreciate the truths that Pagan religions possess. I can be friends with people of all beliefs, whether or not they show any interest in mine. The standards that I hold myself to might not apply so someone else who has not adopted the same standards and beliefs and ways of doing things that I have.

Everyone (Christians and others as well), please allow that we don't all do things the same way. Maybe if something feels wrong to you it is just that it is different. I don't think that offense is intended hardly ever, especially at first. Let's try to stay cool. This thread has lead to a lot of learning and exchange of ideas. Can we all relax a little and see what we can learn from each other?

Thanks,
Rapunzel

Thanks for the clarification. You asked a legitimate question, and I hope that you did get the answers you were looking for. So you decide not to care about what people think of you? You can't please everyone, can you?

I have been enjoying the discussion too. It's gotten off-topic a little. Maybe it is time for a new thread.

Rap

thank you for the reminder Rap i might have gotten a little heated myself..

rapunzel
this thread and nowheretoruns current one..sparked my interest..I know you would like me to start a new one as mentioned in your pm... with some of the questions I raised in nowheretoruns thread (getting it off topic a little) "sorry again nowhere"....and I have been thinking how to outline one with many questions I would like to have input on from everyone who reads..but for now I have been letting the current threads run their course first since they are still active & have been educational to me

but wether it were halloween or christmas .."my" interest would be the same Sky and I don't feel either is a front to christmas ..."I LOVE CHRISTMAS TIME"

actually gabriel I was glad to learn about Satanism it was nothing really to do with Satan to my suprise "LOL"
far as the modern church of Satan went..what part I read

Rapunzel...have you ever watched the show on HBO "Big Love".....is there really a compound like on the show...

I actually like the 3 level of heaven theory...only it would seperate loved ones that have attained higher glory...is there a way to work your way up through the levels ....

say if your in the 3rd level can you do like community service for that level or something to make it to the next level...bad example probably..but you probably know what I mean

I will start a thread and answer some of your questions. If there are more that I don't get around to in the initial post, go ahead and ask them again. It will be a thread for asking questions and answering them.

Rap

great

good idea

actually could i just make a very open call here...

i really want to meet "satanists".. i know about 4 now but if there are any here i would really really like to talk to you..!

and no i dont mean that in a "oh sure its just a talk" which turn into a sermon / lecture.. i seriously just wanna talk.

ahhhhh... i'll just go ahead and say it... some people would call Jungian a Satanist cult... thats' ok... i dont really think so myself..... but, because of its exploration into archetypes, one can easily make contact with dark spirits... not recommended however..... and i'm sure, someone will follow this post with damnations... thats ok also... exploring the dark forces for advancement of dark influence is, imo, evil ...

we can still learn from the dark side though... we can learn where the "line" we will not cross exists at... we can see that point as the place we went to and chose to return from... our own "hell border" if you will..

those who practice dark magic, imo, are baneful ... (sorry, just had to say it)

(all content is author opinion only)

Just wanted to clarify that Muslims don't worship Muhammad. He is deeply respected Prophet as is Jesus and all the other prophets that we know of and those that we don't. But Muslims only worship God. I think this is a common misconception

Btw Kathy - this made me laugh!
"Sometimes when I'm feeling frisky I'll call him "Joe" "

Rapunzel i liked your post. I too respect all religions, although i may not believe they are correct (like you and Sky and others on this site have indicated). I know that Islam teaches respect of all different religions and the more i learn about it, and other religions, the better i can worship God. Allah could have made us all the same but He didn't. He wanted us to learn from each other and choose the correct path.
Muslims believes that only God judges who will enter heaven. Of course i personally believe that the true path is by worshipping Allah alone and that this is the correct way of life but this does not mean i have a ticket into heaven whilst people who practise other religions do not. I, for one, am not going to condemn people, for only God knows what is truly in everyones hearts. So Jinny, of course i would say learn as much as you can about Islam ( ) but at the same time, open your heart to God, and God willing (in-shalla) you will be shown the correct path.

Peace.

Abby I was looking for the first time in my life into religion.

I started praying, asked for Gods help felt comfort and enjoyed the experience....now I am very confused.....I am reading a little on Buddhism right now, I am open minded and like to think I am a good person, but maybe I'm not ......

I dont go to church much and feel maybe I am a hypocrite ...
just really confused right now, and find through my journey I am being reprimanded. Think I'm just gonna step back for a while. This forum interested me, now It just makes me feel inferior and stupid.

Jin x

((((Jinnyann))) perhaps you are going too fast for your own good, and the feelings that you are getting are from this internal upset. Please take care and continue to search for God. Continue to study and pray, and ask that HE show you what is truth. But don't just take whatever comes along first, but continue in your search.

(((((sky)))))

the feelings I am getting are not from internal upset, I was fine until I signed on here tonight. I believe God came into my life and for the first time I am asking for his guidance, praying, even said a prayer for pc and you and Sept in particular on Christmas eve, because of all the misunderstanding... now I just feel I am being misjudged and
patronised.....

Maybe I could just keep posting my opinions without being critisized? Sky I know you have your faith and I truly respect that, the other day I wanted to point out that you said Paganism was bad, I am not a Pagan.....but I respect Paganism, Catholisism, hinduism, Jahova, Buddhism etc etc, I just dont think It's kind to say derogatory things about other religions even if you are quoting 'from facts' history or whatever....

I was then told I cant be a Christian and a Pagan,,,,never said I was pagan....I did say I was Christian, big mistake, sorry....

I do believe in God....but I still believe I dont need a church or believe in everything the bible says to be a good person and go to heaven./next life...

I will not say I;m a Christian again as it offends people...accept my apologies for that at least.....

I dont think arguing about religion does any good, it's personal and that's how I will view it from now on....

((((sky)))))

Jin x

I know that feeling Jinny, i was brought up in a fairly Catholic family and went to church every sunday as i grew up but as i got older i started to question my religion. I had no idea at the beginning that i would ever change my religion, that was not the point of my search. I started to feel confused after awhile too, i'd have periods where i'd enjoy researching religion and others where i felt so confused i just wished that i could forget all about it. I am blessed that God did not allow that to happen. But i know how difficult that place can be. At times i could not even pray because i felt like such a hypocrite!

I think it is brilliant that God is in your thoughts and that you want to learn more about Him, There are so many people that are unable to do this. I agree with Sky entirely, it will take time this journey you are on. In the last year the advice i have been given by muslims and christians alike is to simply pray. Trust God to guide you.

My little sister went to thailand for a few weeks and she really enjoyed learning about buddhism there, she even came back and took a course to learn more about it. It is a very interesting religion.

If you want to talk about things anytime (it doesn't have to be specifically about Islam) then pm me. I know how hard it is to be in the place you are in. I still have times when i feel confused, that is when faith comes into play i guess....

I agree each journey is different and completely personal. Do not worry about what other people think if you can. I'm learning that one of my problems is that i always tried to make everyone else happy forgetting that making God happy would make me happy and therefore start a positive cycle of happiness. (does that make sense?? )

Welcome to the Sanctuary Abby. Do you consider yourself Sunni or Shia Muslim - and what is the difference between the two denominations?

(((((abby)))))

Yes it makes perfect sense and thankyou....I know I have God in my life now, more than ever,,,,if you'd have said that a year ago I wouldn't have believed anything of the sort, never been religious at all except that I always felt 'something' a higher being, guardian angels idk....

I am just exploring and listening and learning, and so far I have found some overbearing and single minded, some wonderful and enlightening and some very similar like on the same route but varying slightly if you see what I mean....I like Hinduism and their beliefs, I intend to work through lots of things and just try to be more tolerant and less ignorant....

I need guidance throughout rather than judgement I'd say...

thankyou, you're always welcome to pm me too, I will look out for your posts also...

hugs, Kerry xxxxx