Is it possible?

I'm currently on meds to manage my psychosis, and I'm supposed to be on these indefinitely, if my symptoms improve, is there a possibility that I could manage the psychosis without meds?

Could someone share their experiences in coping with psychosis without meds?
Thanks!

[RunningEagleRuns]

I'm not sure. I've heard that if you get off your meds the psychosis could come back.

[brackenbeard]

honestly i'm more than a little nervous about getting off meds. psychotic breaks can leave you worse off than where you're at. but you can't forget we do recover, and one day, if you've done the work of recovery, getting off meds could be possible.

[costello]

There are a few people here who don't take medication. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think lil_angel_wings does. There was a member here a year ago or a year and a half ago who didn't - EmptyReflection. He hasn't been around in a while. I know he said that he does still have psychotic breaks. Fishsandwich doesn't take medication, and she would tell you she suffers from psychosis. But she managed to finish her law degree and pass her bar exams.

I think it depends on what level of symptoms you're willing to cope with. A good support system would be useful too. I know EmptyReflection had a supportive wife, but he did mention that every time he had an episode he lost all his friends and had to make new ones. He'd warn the new friends that he would have another episode sometime, and they'd promise they were cool with it - until the episode came.

You might have a look at the website for the Icarus Project and Madness Radio. Will Hall has a harm reduction guide to coming off psych meds. It's available on the Internet somewhere. Also, the National Empowerment Center: http://www.power2u.org/.

Just remember if you try to come off them and it doesn't work, there's no shame in using medication as one of your tools to manage extreme states. Pat Deegan makes use of medication I believe, and I admire her very much: https://www.patdeegan.com/. Also, Ed Knight: http://professored.com/.

Keep in mind to aim for the lowest effective dose.

Good luck!

[OutofTune]

Correct me if I'm wrong... doesn't untreated psychosis cause brain damage? I forget where I read this. Probably on schizophrenia.com.

[costello]

Originally Posted by OutofTune

Correct me if I'm wrong... doesn't untreated psychosis cause brain damage? I forget where I read this. Probably on schizophrenia.com.

You probably did read that on sz.com. Not a fan of that site.

I don't believe that unmedicated psychosis causes brain damage. It is clear, though, that antipsychotic medications cause the brain to shrink. There was a study published in February 2011 which followed a number of people with sz over a long period of time. They looked at 4 variables: duration of illness, illegal drug use, intensity of illness, and use of antipsychotic medication.

They found that there was no correlation between intensity of illness or illegal drug use and loss of brain volume.

They found a small correlation between the length of illness and loss of brain volume.

The strongest correlation was between antipsychotic use and loss of brain volume. The longer the person used AP's and the higher the dosages, the more loss of brain volume.

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/arti...ticleid=211084

Thank you so much for the information.
I'm more worried about what my antipsychotics are doing to m body than I am about having another psychotic break, to be honest. And I don't want to be taking meds forever.

[costello]

Originally Posted by Lara Croft

Thank you so much for the information.
I'm more worried about what my antipsychotics are doing to m body than I am about having another psychotic break, to be honest. And I don't want to be taking meds forever.

I do think it's a risk-benefit thing. Each person has to do that calculation for him- or herself.

I also fantasize about my son getting off medication altogether. I don't know if it will ever happen.

Right now he's on a low dose of Zyprexa - 4.375 mg. (He's taking 1 and 3/4 2.5 mg tablets - has to cut it down. ) When he came out of the state hospital in March 2011 he was taking 35 mg! The pdoc lowered that pretty rapidly to about 10 mg. We've been very slowly feeling our way along, inching the dose downward ever since then. It's a trial and error thing. It's true he's having more symptoms, but he's also having fewer side effects.

I feel like it's best that he have a few symptoms pop through. That way he can learn coping skills and alternative methods of handling things. Honestly I'm not seeing any signs of psychosis and haven't for some time. I'm seeing OCD stuff, anxiety, etc. And he's coping fairly well with those IMO.

I'd like to have the pdoc lower the dose again - to 3.75 mg - and see how it goes, but he just started a fulltime job last week, so his stress level is through the roof right now.

I think you're best bet is to find a pdoc who'll work with you, if possible. And please be willing to take the dose back up if necessary. About this time last year the pdoc lowered the dose from 10 mg to 5 mg. It was horrible! My son was having rages and throwing the furniture around the house. He really didn't want to go back up on the dosage, because he felt better at the lower dose (even if I didn't ) and he saw it as a defeat. Finally I twisted his arm and got him to go up to 10 mg. Then we lowered it more slowly. Now he's actually lower than 5 mg and not having rages at all.

[faerie_moon_x]

I agree with costello that it's a risk/benefit thing.

I have bipolar with possible psychotic features. I see and hear things randomly. I get paranoia. At one point I had a very long lasting delusion, (Lasted at least 5 years,) but it was before treatment or diagnosis for me. But, I would say I see things maybe once every 1-2 months, hear things maybe once every 3-6 months. Paranoia is more common, but I am learning reality checking skills for it. I'm only on lithium and not an anti-psychotic at this time, and I feel I don't really need that right now.

[costello]

Originally Posted by dark_heart_x

I feel I don't really need that right now.

I think this is key too - 'right now.' I wish pdocs were more open to working with patients with psychosis. You may find that raising and lowering the dosage or going on or off meds as needed would be best. But can you find a pdoc willing to work with you on that?

[faerie_moon_x]

I don't have a pdoc at the moment, haven't had one in about 3 years. My GP prescribed the lithium for me because I requested it. I think it would be good to find pdocs who are more about wellness and not just meds. Wellness is another mindset, because it's not just about "take your meds" but what works for you. I'm sure there are ones out there like that, but no idea how to find one.

[moodiegirl]

I'm on 10mg of Abilify, together with Wellbutrin and Lamictal, and would like to get off meds as well, especially since I'm planning on getting pregnant soon. I have bipolar with psychotic symptoms. My pdoc said I should go off Lamictal, but I should stay on Abilify. I don't have any side-effects (well, nearly), but the brain shrinkage thing really scares me. I've tried getting off Lamictal and Wellbutrin, but slipped back into depression. I HATE taking meds, but when I think back of my first episode of mania and psychosis - I would really hate for my family to go through that again! And my husband, whom I didn't know yet at the time.

I really don't know what to do, staying on meds scares me, and going off scares me even more. I'm not that concerned about myself, but I really don't want to hurt my family. During my psychotic episode I didn't experience any hallucinations or heard voices - I just couldn't think, and when I did I kept having the same thoughts over and over again. And everything felt surreal.

I can't imagine having a psychotic breakdown now, I think I'm in a so much better place, and a totally different person than I was back then. But maybe I'm wrong?

Sorry for rambling on, I just needed to get this off my chest. If anyone has any advice or opinions, I'd be happy to hear...

[costello]

Originally Posted by moodiegirl

I've tried getting off Lamictal and Wellbutrin, but slipped back into depression.

Have you tried alternatives for managing your depression? My son's pdoc wants him to use the techniques in The Depression Cure by Stephen Ilardi. My son doesn't keep up it, of course. But if you're motivated and keep it up, it may help. He has six prongs to his program: exercise, fish oil, sunlight, social contact, not ruminating, and ... I can't remember the other, but you can google him. Or get his book.

Also, I like CBT or mindfulness approaches to therapy. Do you see a therapist?

I HATE taking meds, but when I think back of my first episode of mania and psychosis - I would really hate for my family to go through that again! And my husband, whom I didn't know yet at the time.

That's why we're going very slowly with my son.

During my psychotic episode I didn't experience any hallucinations or heard voices - I just couldn't think, and when I did I kept having the same thoughts over and over again. And everything felt surreal.

You sound a lot like my son actually.

Sorry for rambling on, I just needed to get this off my chest. If anyone has any advice or opinions, I'd be happy to hear...

No problem. I think everyone here understands your hopes and fears.

[moodiegirl]

Thank you for your kind reply, costello!

I am certainly buying the book by Stephen Ilardi, I looked it up on amazon and it looks quite promising. I have problems motivating myself for exercise , and about ruminating, well I won't go there ... but I am going to try to follow the programme. I think I'm more motivated every day to make it work without the meds.

I haven't tried the mindfulness approach yet, but I have read the CBT book "Feeling Good" by David Burns, and it helped me a lot. I'm not seeing a therapist, I only go to my pdoc. We mostly talk about meds, but I think she would help me with the no-meds approach if I asked her. Will try.

Thanks again, and I wish you, and your son all the best

[costello]

Originally Posted by moodiegirl

I have read the CBT book "Feeling Good" by David Burns, and it helped me a lot. I'm not seeing a therapist, I only go to my pdoc.

I do think CBT and mindfulness are simple enough you can do it on your own - or with support from people on this forum.

Thanks again, and I wish you, and your son all the best

Thanks. Things are going well now, but I try to remember that his illness is episodic. Things can so south again, so I don't want to get overconfident and start thinking we've licked this thing. It's a beast.

[faerie_moon_x]

The key to managing depression yourself is actually full will power, I've found.

Also I've found that hitting a bottome really does motivate you to not go back to that point. My bottom was not being able to buy diapers for my middle son. He was a baby and we were on food stamps. I was in school and no job. No one would buy even one small package of diapers for us. I walked to every homeless shelter near my house on Labor Day of 2007, carrying him in his carseat which was very heavy (I didn't have a stroller, and he was 1 year old.) Not a single one had diapers. I sat down on the curb and I cried. Later that day my dad called me to tell me what a wonderful Labor Day BBQ him and my step-mother shared at my step-brother's house, it was infuriating. I said never again will I let my family suffer like this. A few weeks later I got the job that pulled us out of extreme poverty and I haven't given up since.

[onionknight]

^ For me, I must have a short memory...for the immediate time after a severe bout with depression, I remember how bad I feel and will do anything to avoid it, but soon I will forget or stop caring.

I think it takes time to learn to manage without meds, and it is situation dependent. I coped medicine free through-out my childhood, teen and college years, but these past months I have done better on meds since I've living at home and struggling to find some direction in life. I face a lot of triggers on a daily basis so without meds, it is easy for me to get sucked into bad depression. I've been told I'll needs meds forever, but I think as I get older, I'll get better at "living" without letting depression, anxiety and all my other wonderful symptoms get in the way. It's about learning to not let certain things bother you, even if they are out of the ordinary, they aren't you ordinary.

[jt25324]

It's definitely not easy...I just recently tried switching meds and got off abilify tried a new one and went down hill after that didnt work and just stayed off the meds completely...Theres no doubt you have to limit your stress as much as possibly while off meds...I exercised a few hrs a day (still do) to ease the pain but its not enough..Support system help while trying as well I really lack any support..No too many people to talk about it except a few dogs... ANywho, Im sure it can be done with a well thought out plan in advance..Sorry, for the incoherent rambling my thoughts are disorganized well I get back on these meds.....Hope it works for you..Make a plan with the shrink and therapist before hand...good luck!

[Coma Patient 7]

I've never taken meds for my issues in the past 15 years, voices, depression, anxiety etc, etc..

I do a lot of mental training however. For the voices I train my hearing so there is less confusion. For my depression I train controlling my emotions, I exercise my mind with math, memory recalling, honing my senses and holding as many as I can, etc. Just lots of mental exercising, if you spend an hour a day exercising your body you should spend at least with your mind.

Since I've gotten an autoimmune disease I've become completely exhausted mentally and physically, I'm currently looking into some meds for my voices. I'll try it for a couple months and look for the reference point in my mind, how the medicine makes me feel. Then I'll try to remember that feeling and recall it without the medicine, so I have more places to operate from that are considered a safe place in my mind. And when ever I feel lost I'll just recall that memory or one of the many other safe spots in my mind and just hide out until the storm passes, if I don't feel up to the fight.

Really anyone with a mental disorder should be training their mind more often. Meds can help us manage these issues, but they are often not the cure. Do it with your doctor, as brain training can be very exhausting which can make your symptoms much worse at first.

[Coma Patient 7]

I was going to edit, but I'll add a new post.

Once you start practicing a lot, you realize it is what ever you want it to be in your mind. For instance this month to combat my voice I simply have told myself "I do not have to play his game". Which is a simple command for my subconscious in a language it loves, simple facts. You can speak directly to the subconscious by paying attention to where an image or emotion comes from when you ask yourself a question. If you practice talking to your inner self as a friend or ally, you might be surprised how easy some things become, as you struggle with yourself less often.

Last month to control my emotions I used 4-5 small balls in my head and would roll them to the center. This month I simply imagine my hand in my mind sweeping them aside or for a persistent emotion I simply look deep with in at the emotion and try to understand. Also anything remotely negative I counter with something positive, if I feel bad I reassure myself like I would someone else. Lately I've been asking my subconscious for assistance on really difficult emotions, it often responds with images or emotions. This I have not gotten down, as I have no clue what the hell it's saying 1/2 the time, but it does help sometimes. Who knows what I'll be using next month to combat this stuff.

[Coma Patient 7]

Dear god I'm really coming across as one of the fringe with three posts in a row. But this tinny little conceptual error will slowly drive insane if I do not correct it.

When I mention the inner self, I'm not referring to any voice in your head, but your subconscious. I felt it was important enough to make that clarification, My best advice for voices is to ignore them, the exercise to find your inner self can be very difficult with a resourceful voice, but not impossible.

[costello]

You don't seem like one of the fringe to me, Coma. Or maybe we're all on the fringe here? If so, welcome to the crowd!

[MickG]

Originally Posted by OutofTune

Correct me if I'm wrong... doesn't untreated psychosis cause brain damage? I forget where I read this. Probably on schizophrenia.com.

Some psychiatric medications do as well.

It is a personal choice dependent upon what helps and what doesn't. I've taken medication for years and the only one that did anything for me was the older drug Trilafon.

I am currently managing without medication.

I wish all of you the very best. Take care.

MickG (Mickey Ripped on facebook)

im coming off of my medication as soon as i get off probation. probation is making me take meds. i lived for years without meds, but i was paranoid tho. but i think i can handle myself without meds now.

[EmptyReflection]

Having been medicated before for extended periods of time, my personal observation is that I was trading one set of problems for another. Do I deal with psychotic episodes and constant fringe issues, or deal with being emotionless, clouded, and other side-effect-related problems?

I don't think there's any universal "right" answer to this question, really. Some people have to deal with such extremes without meds that whatever side-effects come with the meds seem like a gift, rather than a burden. For others, it can be more median, or even the opposite. I really don't think there's enough understanding of schizophrenia (medically speaking) to have any sort of standard approach, and it's a very wide spectrum to treat - seems like everyone has a slightly different way their docs tried to help them cope.

I stopped taking meds some years ago because I didn't like the trade-off of symptoms, and found it easier to deal with something I was familiar with (episodes, paranoia, machine's commentary) than dealing with being a zombie who was only making others happy, but himself miserable. That's only my experience, and it doesn't work for everyone, but I say it to let others know that, in some cases, it can be managed mostly by yourself. Having a supportive partner, family member or close friend goes a long, long way to helping that happen.