My son's really struggling with this job now

I don't know what to advise him. I don't know if I should advise him.

He's been there almost two months now. The first month was training. Now he's on the phones, but based on what he's telling me, he's making too many mistakes. Of course, he is super criticial of himself, so he may not be doing as badly as he imagines.

I know he's scared he'll be fired, because he's been fired from every job he's had over the last several years. It would be a tremendous blow to his ego. So, maybe he should quit now rather than wait for that blow?

But maybe he's not going to be fired. They have a lot invested in him, with the training taking a month. And a lot of the people who started with him have already quit - which probably makes him even more valuable in their eyes.

But if he's making so many mistakes, they may just cut their losses and ask him not to come back.

I don't want him to give up too easily, but I really, really don't want him to be fire. It took him months to recover last time.

Do you know what mistakes you son is making? If not, you can ask him whether he wants you to just listen or to listen and also give your advice.

If he can hold on a few more weeks, maybe he can qualify for unemployment? I am sorry Costello, maybe you are right and he is not making as many mistakes as he thinks, perhaps it is the pressure that is making him feel that way. If they haven't fired him yet, he should hold on. Time will strengthen his skills.

My son has a sort of OCD type mind, I think. People with OCD, I guess, have an overly sensitive part of their brain that sends off a message that "something is wrong here." So, it's hard to know if he's really making lots of mistakes or if he's "imagining" it.

I've never done the type of work he does, so I'm not sure how much help I could be. He's also unlikely to tell me the details of his so-called mistakes, because he has a superstitious worldview. He worries he'll jinx things if he tells too much.

It's just a really touchy thing.

I asked him this morning what he wants to do about this situation. He said he wants to quit this job and find a parttime job with lower stress. So, we talked about how to do that. He got the job through an employment agency, so we discussed how to gracefully quit the job without burning any bridges at the employment agency. I suggested he tell a lie. (Bad of me, maybe, but he shouldn't have to explain about his mental health problems.)

I suggested he call the employment agency and tell them he's caregiver to a family member who is ill and that he needs parttime employment so he can be more available to that family member. I told him to ask if they thought he should give two weeks notice. That way he'd look cooperative and helpful.

In the past when he's been overwhelmed at jobs, it leads to a breakdown of some sort, and he just stops showing up. Then when he wants to go back, of course, they won't take him.

So, I'm seeing this as a success and a growth experience. He's monitoring his internal state, noticing he's getting overwhelmed, assessing the resources available to him, and taking action that won't damage relationships he might want to call on in the future.

I hope it all works well for him.

Dang, dang, dang!

He called them with his lie about needing parttime work, and they said he might be able to work at that job parttime. Shoot! We didn't plan for that.

He said he thought it would be too much anyway. He's waiting to hear back about whether they want two weeks notice.

And you know what he said? He feels bad for quitting when people said he was doing a good job and everyone was being so nice about trying to help him!

Ugh! Sometimes it feels like he's just determined to be unhappy. He's unhappy working there. He's unhappy quitting. He sets up these lose-lose situations in his mind. No matter which way he jumps, he's miserable.

I think you gave your son good advice.

This all revolves around his self esteem. He doesn't think he's doing a good job even though others think otherwise and he feels bad for quitting because he is letting other people down. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't (lose-lose) situation. I don't know how your son can break this cycle other than him getting into therapy on a more frequent basis to work on his self esteem. There's only so much you can do, costello. Your son has to do the work in improving himself and that starts with therapy.

Thanks. I hope you're right.

I think you're right. Self-esteem is key here.

Well, he got a call back from the employment agency. They say that the employer is really happy with my son's work, and they want to work with him to keep him. So, he'll visit with them at 12:30 when he goes to work.

I think it's a tremendous boost to his ego to hear that. Part of the reason he hated the job was he felt like he was screwing up. So, he'll talk to them and see what they can do. Maybe he'll work there parttime.

I know that I work phones. Even though I'm a secretary, I also have like a "telemarketer" type of position in that I have to call every patient referred to us to try to get them to schedule. This is extremely stressful for me. I also have a tendancy toward suspiciousness, probably less so than your son, but I do. Even though I'm calling on behalf of people's doctors, and from a local number, a lot of people treat me like a telemarketer.

People are suspicious of me, hang up on me, or hang up before even talking to me. This triggers me into wanting to call back and tell them off. It takes a great deal of will power not to react most times. This is incredibly stressful for me. Also, I hate talking on the phone. I hate it. I don't even like to for fun like with family members. I can talk a long time, but I don't like it. I hate making calls. So I work a job where I'm on the phone about 85% of the time, and it's extremely stressful.

So, I think it's okay your son wants a lower stress job, because this job isn't easy, and I do make a lot of mistakes. And for a while people are "helpful and nice" but after a while they stop being helpful and nice and even if you disclose your mental illness to show them why you make mistakes and get overwhelmed, that only makes it worse. So.... if he can get a lower stress job, that will be better, I think.

Sorry, rambling...

Me too. On Monday my younger son was released from jail. I parked outside the jail, thinking he'd need a ride. I waited there for like an hour. Finally his ex-gf called me, and I told her what I was doing. She says, "Why don't you call the jail and see when he'll be released?" I hesitated, so she offered to do it. An 18 year old girl had no trouble making that call! And he had already been released and was long gone. So, I would have been sitting there a long time!

I agree. I think a great job for him would be dishwasher at a restaurant or a nursing/retirement home. Half-time.

I hope all goes well with your son today.

Me too. I still think he needs to start looking for a lower stress job, but what a boost for his ego to hear they want to keep him!

You know what job I loved that was low stress? I worked part time as a custodian for the county at the schools. That's what my dad used to do, so he got me the job. They have "four hour temp" position which is whenever a custodian is out sick or on vacation, or if someone quits suddenly, etc they bring in a temp. You are still an employee of the schools. I worked for 6 months and never had a day where there wasn't an opening to be filled. And, most times I was at places for a long time.

If you do well at four hours, they can put you on six hours, which is what my plan was. But, of course, my bipolar got ahold of me and convinced me I needed to quit that job for reasons that seemed perfectly logically at the time but which really were not. I was in college so I had no need to think about a family or anything (and still living at home then so no need to think about bills.) But it was an excellent job and a big regret.

The best thing about it: you vaccume the floor, you clean white boards, you scrape gum off carpets. Bathrooms can be gross (especially in the high schools) but you get passed it and then have a crazy story to tell. And there is no paperwork or phones to answer, you just go in, do your work, and go home. And the pay is good and the people are all blue collar and most of them are friendly. (The only one I had trouble with was an ex marine and a perfectionist and everyone had trouble with her. )

Yeah, I've thought about custodian for my son too. I'm not sure if he can do it, though. I know that sounds odd. He's normal intelligence, but he can make the oddest mistakes sometimes. And it's worse with anything spatial. I used to joke that he'd get lost going from one room to another in a two-room house. His sense of direction is so bad. I can't even begin to describe it.

Then anything that involves doing a series of things totally throws him. Repetition is key for him. A custodian has to move from area to area in a building, doing certain tasks in each area, and not the same tasks. In an office, he'd maybe vacuum and empty the trash cans. In the bathroom, he'd mop, clean the toilet, wipe the sink, and empty the trash. He has to move through the building, not missing any rooms (my son would forget to go into all the rooms), and do the correct tasks for each room. I know it sounds easy, but without someone to prompt him, my son couldn't handle that.

I know it sounds like something a person with average intelligence could easily handle. When he was a kid, I used to think he was doing it deliberately. I'd think he didn't care about doing a good job or that he figured if he did a bad enough job, I'd stop asking.

Now I'm sure this isn't true. He really wants to do well, but there's something preventing him. It's why he gets so paralyzed and why he always thinks he's screwing up. And then he overfocuses to avoid making mistakes. Then he makes mistakes becauses he's overthinking. He'll make bizarre mistakes. And you'll ask him why he did that, and he'll either say he doesn't know or he'll tell you the thought process that lead him to do that. It's always this odd trail of thoughts that you can kind of see how he got there. The core is usually that he doesn't trust himself, so he starts overthinking.

People have actually told him that they thought he was retarded when they first met him. He'll be so confused about things that are so simple, then he'll suddenly say something so freaking brilliant, you're just standing there with your mouth hanging open. Then he gets mad that you're surprised, because he figures it means you think he's too stupid to have such a thought.

Actually, being a custodian is incredibly repetitive which is why I liked it. It was exactly the same thing every day, a perfect routine. And if there is one thing that is true for bipolar its that having a routine that doesn't change is incredible. You can say I'm queen of the rut. I hate when things change, even slightly. It takes me months to adjust to small changes in routine. I'm still not adjusted to the routine change that happened with taking my son to school, and he's six and started school when he was 4, I still struggle to get a routine going on that. I'm still struggling to get a routine since the still not adjusted routine changed again when the baby was born. Repetition and routine is essential to my functioning, which is why I loved that job.

This is why the schools were so good. You set up a routine. You do one task at a time. You have an area that is assigned to you and you do that area only. Elementary schools are the easiest and best. I would vaccume all the rooms and the hall, and empty the trash. Then, you have 1 set of bathrooms. It usually doesn' take the whole time, and then once the custodians are done they all sit in the break room and hang out.

It was so low stress. It's too bad your son wouldn't be able, that was perfect for me. And I was dumb and messed it up. I've tried to get hired back but they never even look my way now.

I'll suggest it to him. There was a job my sister found once. (My sister is the queen of jobs. She's always taking on little extra part time jobs. I don't know when she sleeps.) It was janitor at a local clothing shop. Early morning hours. They were having a hard time keeping an employee. Really high turnover. It's not ideal for my son, because he has a hard time getting up early because of the Zyprexa, but I actually considered asking them if they'd hire us as a team. I could keep him focused and on task.

The nice thing about the schools is that it's an evening job durig the school year. As a four hour person I started at 6:00 p.m. and worked until 10:00 p.m. My area was always rather small. My dad was a full time employee and worked at one school only. He worked from 2:30 p.m. until 10:00 p.m. That's when school lets out. So, at first the teachers are there finishing up but then they go home. So it's quiet, no customers or people except the other custodians.

The only variations in his schedule were if there was an event at the school like an art show. At the high school once we had a basketball game when I was working, that was fun. But all of the custodians work as a team for the events, not just one person.

Having a team job with your son might work out. My cousin who has schizophrenia has not been able to hold a job on his own. He is like 50 or 60 now. But, him and his dad used to take on jobs together. They were always low stress jobs, sort of odd jobs. Like they would pass out flyers. Things like that. My uncle has passed away now, so he no longer takes odd jobs because his mom is very ill and not able to help. But you can see this has had a bad effect on him. He's more depressed now (plus he was very close to his dad.)

Yeah. Work is about more than money. This is something my son really struggles with. He doesn't need a job for money. He needs a job for:

1. social contact;
2. something to do;
3. self-worth and dignity;
4. self-esteem;
5. new challenges;
6. making a contribution to society;
etc., etc., etc.

When he's not working, he mostly sits at home and watches tv and smokes. Then he starts saying he's only 27, will this be his whole life? He has no hobbies and doesn't want to do volunteer work or go back to school. So, that leaves a job to fill the hours.

Hmmm.... maybe if there is something he is passionate about he could find a part time job doing that.

I know a couple who are retired but still want to be part of something. So they work at the local sporting arena. They do things like taking tickets, sweeping, not the concessions but just the easy jobs that don't take much effort. When concerts come through town, they get to work at all the concerts so technically they get paid to go to concerts.

Trouble is he's not passionate about anything. He used to be passionate about rap music and hip hop, but a lot of his delusions were about that during his last episode, so it's a bit tainted I think. He thought Nicki Manaj was his sister, and he was friends with Lady Gaga and advising her on her choreography, and he had a record label. I think just touching on this stuff is triggering for him right now. Even watching American Idol is iffy, because he starts imagining himself a contestant.

As far as having something to do... we've been over and over this ground many times.

Maybe he would be better off if it were something you were there helping him with, like a team. He sounds a lot like my cousin actually.

Well, he went to work this evening. He told them he'd work half time - 5 to 9 pm. He told them he wanted today off. Then he regretted it, so I told him to show up for work at 5 today. They'll be happy to have him I'm sure. So, he went. I wonder if knowing he has options will make him less stressed about the job.