The anxieties of returning given the mental health albatross

I am looking into returning to school after a long hiatus spent bouncing around an economically & existentially insufficient professional world. My mental health and cognition became a repeated theme/burden when trying to navigate a professional setting. It seemed like every time I felt like I gained ground in managing my mental health symptoms, I found new depths or facets to my own deficits which interfered with my duties. I want to go back to school to start a new path but am terrified of repeating the cycle of being betrayed by my own mind. I'm hoping to find better coping mechanisms if anyone would be open to discussion in the future.

I am starting school again in August! I'd be more than happy to talk with you

If you have mental health problems, it is only natural that this is going to negatively impact your academic performance. And when you drop out because of low performance, you have good odds of succeeding when that mental health issue is under management or resolved.

Still, fear of repeating a cycle is an issue. I have experienced it myself. If you go back now, and fail, can you really go back a third time? Maybe.
So maybe you still need another year to solve your issues? You ask us for a 'coping mechanism'. But you don't even tell us what issues you have.

I would suggest professional help.

I dropped out of college at age 19 because of depression. I was flunking everything. Then I bounced around for years, taking a course here and a course there, going from job to job. More than ten years later, I went back to school full time and did very well academically. I guess what helped was I was more mature and had more self-discipline. So it is possible to resume your education and be a better student the second time around. Like me, you might be getting to the point of seeing the futility of all that "bouncing around."

You have to be honest with yourself, if you don't want to repeat the same pattern. The coping mechanisms that will serve you well are commitment and self-discipline. You need to lose some of your current coping mechanisms that are not serving you well. One of those is your tendency to try and over-intellectualize your problems. You are confusing yourself.

Start by talking more plainly. I was trying to figure out what you meant by "economically & existentially insufficient." My guess is that you mean "low paying and boring." I shouldn't have to guess. If you use that kind of murky language when you write term papers and take essay exams, you aren't going to pass your courses. That brings us to another bad coping mechanism that you are using. Stop trying to deflect responsibility away from yourself. You weren't "betrayed" by your mind. You and your mind are one and the same. Yes, you are burdened by emotional issues, as I was. But that's not why you didn't do well in school the last time. If you show up for all your classes, pay attention and do all your homework, you'll pass your classes regardless of what mental health issues you struggle with.

At age 19, I didn't start flunking because I was depressed. I started flunking because I wasn't doing the work. My reason for not doing the work was that I was too depressed to care. My emotional needs were not being met. I was lonely. I suspect something similar is going on with you. My heart goes out to you. Having large unmet emotional needs is painful and can totally sap the motivation to do the work required.

Ask yourself this: "Can I make up my mind to do the work school requires regardless of whether or not I feel good, emotionally? Can I make that commitment and stick to it?" If you feel you have the self-discipline, then go back. If not, then try just taking one course. Doing well in one course might build up your confidence that you can make yourself do what is required.

You correctly identified that the problem is you not attending to your "duties." Clarify that in your mind by letting go of murky ideas like "facets to your deficits." That's how you keep yourself confused because you are being very defensive. You are afraid of feeling guilty. You don't want to blame yourself. This doesn't have to be about blame and guilt. You truly do have a handicap that is making life very hard for you. You didn't choose to have that handicap. Now you want to figure out how to get out of a cycle of failure. To do that you need to think more clearly. Don't be afraid of clear thinking because it might undermine the defenses you've put up. It will empower you. We humans build thoughts out of words. Start using words that a ten year old would understand. When you verbalize things so a kid could understand you, then you will understand yourself. Right now you use language to obscure because you are fearful. Liberate yourself from that and you will stop being "terrified." You don't need to defend yourself from some invisible judge. I'm not judging you. I believe you've been doing the best you know how. But there's a better approach that you can learn.

A little blunt, but I think there's some solid advice in here.

I do apologize for the bluntness. Years of hearing therapists talk to me very tactfully and diplomatically didn't teach me a thing. But then I am a hardhead.

To Brian: If my offerings don't sound supportive, feel free to ignore. Take in what resonates and chuck what doesn't.

I apologize if my post seemed a bit mysterious, or undetailed. It was just opening to start the conversation. It just felt like too much information to put into one post. I can elaborate on my mental health challenges as these series of exchanges develop. I have repeatedly gone through professionals for help, and some valuable lessons have been acquired in a piecemeal fashion. I often find that as I explore life and take on new challenges, my sense of what my mental health challenges are changes. Some of this is the result of changes in perspective that result from expanding understanding. For example, being involved in a relationship has increased my sense of what being attentive to the needs of others is, as well as increasing my minimum standards for self-care. Other changes in my sense of mental health challenges result from moving the goal post for my mental health based on changing demands of different professional & interpersonal pursuits. For example, doing a data entry job might cause me to put less emphasis on executive dysfunction, because it demands less of that function than say, a job like case management in which appointments, reminders, & notes constantly press you, so the degree of difficulty and types of demands change your sense of what needs to be addressed. Lastly, I would add that it is correct to get professional help, but it is just one piece of the puzzle (I personally characterize mental health maintenance as a whole lifestyle, & not exclusively a therapeutic interaction). It is important to distinguish between "under management" versus "resolved" regarding one's mental health. A concern that I am often left with, is that mental health as it is currently understood, can only be characterized as "under management" (as opposed to resolved), and even that is a matter of degree.

I agree with some of your assessment & don't take offense. I certainly think that self-discipline is part of it (or more to the point, a minimum requirement). Of course the Catch-22, is that mental health can affect the discipline, motivation, clarity of perception, and organization that allows for this success. I tend to think that simplification of description often courts inaccuracy, or at least insufficient detail in an analysis (despite the fact that academia may incentivize it). This isn't to say I accomplished the goal of sufficient detail with the words I chose. I suppose I chose the words that I did in the previous out of a sense that simple descriptions weren't up to the task (I honestly feel like there is more to my synopsis than "low paying & boring), but going into the details of my story or feelings, warranted more characters and effort than I wanted to put into a single post . Perhaps I will get to the point where I feel comfortable elaborating on my feelings in this forum, perhaps not.

So what don't you like about your job?

Well, I'm currently looking for work. The last job I worked was a mixed bag (I was case manager). There were moments that made me feel good, like helping a client that had bounced around from home to home, find a stable place to live, and reliable meals. So that job had moments that were quite powerful, but moment's that seemed to occur in a sea of not-so-positive. Seeing problems like finding housing, addiction, getting psychiatric or medical support when seen en masse can be overwhelming, though they also punctuate the importance of needing to fix them. I use the analogy of when a cartoon character sees leaks spring from a dam, and tries to plug them with their fingers only to find two new leaks spring. The dam itself is the problem in that scenario, and it doesn't get fixed. That broken dam meant that not only are their more problems to fix, but that people tried to work within constrained budgets, and increased caseloads on the employees they had, rather than getting more employees. I just wonder whether a broken dam is woven into the fabric of being human. Sorry if that's too much metaphor.

Case management sounds like a reliable source of demoralization. I wouldn't want to do it. There are jobs that have you feeling less like you're shoveling **** against the tide. You definitely might want to look into other employment options.

Not a bad metaphor. I do agree that broken dams are woven into the fabric of what's called the human condition. There's always a fly in the ointment. But the particular job you describe sounds like total immersion in human misery. Sounds like you did some good, but I'm sure you saw a lot of messes that you couldn't straighten out.

I'd like to believe I did some good. For all the structural problems of the job, I never considered myself blameless. There are certainly things in myself I consider worth working on, I just don't consider it mutually exclusive from outside factors. Sorry, if this all became tangential since the original intent of my first post had to do with dealing with the prospect of going back to school. Turns out that there may be some logistical issues that delay that goal anyways. I have an outstanding balance that I was previously unaware of that is preventing me from acquiring some of my transcripts. So, basically I have to resolve this newfound debt before any college admissions can be completed.

I'd would say do your best to get what ever mental health issues you may have under control. Also online school is an option. I did that for half my high school career and I'm taking three online classes right now in college. I also suggest like I do consult with your schools Disability Support services, they may have accommodations for you. And dont be afraid to communicate with your teachers about being absent. Most will understand and be patient with you.Good luck!

Yeah, disability support services are quite important, & I have probably been to pensive about taking full advantage of them in the past.

Nowhere is it written that you are supposed to be blameless. It's good to reflect upon oneself and see where there's room for improvement. But allow for the fact that you're human. You'll never in your life be doing everything right.

The social safety net will never be woven fine enough to catch every problem. I'll bet that's not even being done in Norway (where social services are probably the most lavishly funded.) Never will there be quite enough resources invested. Never will case managers not be spread too thin over too large a case load. There will always be lots of human distress. Attempts to ameliorate it will always fall short. I'm not a defeatist; that is the reality of the human condition. I don't think anyone ever really succeeds in making the world a better place. But here and there you can make something better than what it was. There's victory in that. To be able to say you sincerely tried is to say much. I am daily amazed at how diligently so many go to work day after day and try to do a good job. Most jobs do involve a great deal of tedium. But people persevere and they just keep on trying as best they can. Some people do as little as they can get away with doing. But so many do what is asked of them and they pick up the slack left by the shirkers. Every day all the garbage gets picked up . . . all the shelves at the supermarkets get stocked . . . the streets get sweeped . . . and so on and so on. It's a lot of work. Those with existential angst wonder: "What is it all for in the end?" Whoever has the intelligence to raise that question must answer it for himself. Your guess is as good as mine and as good as anyone else's. No advanced degree in philosophy will equip the person who has it to likely make a better guess than the guy you see cleaning the bathrooms at Walmart's.

Well I guess that got tangential. But I'm sorry about the logistical holdup to you registering for school. So, when one avenue gets closed off, you have to plot a different route. Look over your remaining options and see if one of them holds some appeal.

Hi Bri_Cnqr , noticed you are a new member here to PC so I wanted to first welcome you to Psych Central.

I was wondering what your goal was in your effort to go back for more education?

I noticed you have an interest in Neuroscience and am wondering if you might find it interesting to find something in that field of study and research. I happen to have a lot of interest as well as respect for the individuals who study the brain as my daughter happens to have dyslexia and because that challenge was being studied I was able to have her tested and from that was able to learn her weak areas so I could help her learn according to how she learns "best".

One of the things I was told was how my daughter if given 10 things to remember was only able to remember about 3 or 4 things out of the 10. That explained a lot to me because I have to admit I would give her a list of things to do and sure enough she never did everything on the list and just as they had explained, she would insist I only actually told her what she could remember. This presented me with a challenge in that in helping her learn according to the way she "can" learn I had to break things down while helping her study and learn for school. The other thing was her challenge with reading. I have to say I was actually surprised by that because my daughter was able to say the entire alphabet at age one and she most certainly was very vocal. Also, when I read her her favorite stories, she would see each page and remember each page word for word. The researchers did tell me that my daughter did have a high IQ, she was very smart and capable, it's just that she happens to "learn" differently.

I think the term "depression" is very broad. I think there are different kinds of depression, or perhaps reasons for depression. I think that it's quite possible that a person can be quite intelligent and may need to be doing something that can stimulate their mind in a way that doesn't overwhelm it with too much "clutter". I have noticed this is something that can most definitely contribute to my daughter's periods of feeling "depressed" or anxious, it's the clutter that can cause her to struggle, and if she is doing something that compliments her personal way of mental functioning and cognitive ability, she is much happier and content.

If you are a person that can't focus on the few holes in the leaking dike and ignore all the holes that need to be filled, then you are most likely an individual who will experience anxiety because you happen to get overwhelmed with the clutter that presents in that atmosphere.

What I helped my daughter slowly learn is "breaking the clutter down". To my surprise my daughter has actually learned to function very well with using this kind of breakdown method to "learning and functioning". My daughter likes to ride and compete with horses. She likes to compete with her horses both on the flat but also in jumping competitions. In jumping competitions the rider has to memorize each course sequence they are expected to jump. Often I would watch my daughter memorize a course of eight fences, and I remembered how I was told by the specialists that my daughter would only be able to remember 3 or 4 things out of 10. I had noticed that she NEVER forgets a course even when the course is changed so I asked her how she can remember all those jumps in order. My daughter replied, "oh, it's easy mom, I do it this way, 1,2,3 and 4,5,6, and 7,8, and off. She found a way to remove the "clutter" in her mind where she did not experience anxiety about remembering each course.

So with that in mind, the reason I had asked you if you had a plan/goal in what you want to go back to school for, is to see if you have an idea of what you can learn to do where you can engage in doing something that best suits your mind. This can be helpful in reducing the kind of "clutter" that might contribute to your "anxiety and depression" challenges.

Not to change the subject, but i am 57 years old, with alot of mental issues and am on meds. I just recieved my Bachelors of Arts degree, which i thought i could never do and i am just soo much more positive in my mind. You can do it, i went through what you are going through now, not knowing how i would do in school. You said you did go back and did well too. thats a good thing. good luck!!

I have had similar issues. I dropped out of high school at age fourteen. Went back at sixteen. Did great for a year. Then failed out. Got my GED a year later. Tried college. Failed. Went back a year after that. Did great until six months ago. Picking things back up now, and trying to do good again. All I can say is get up again and again, every time you fall, and never give up. I sometimes view mental health relapses in a very negative way. In particular I let them crush me and make me fear for my future, I thought I'd never get anywhere in life. But I keep trying. That's all we can do

I was wondering what your goal was in your effort to go back for more education?

I noticed you have an interest in Neuroscience and am wondering if you might find it interesting to find something in that field of study and research. I happen to have a lot of interest as well as respect for the individuals who study the brain as my daughter happens to have dyslexia and because that challenge was being studied I was able to have her tested and from that was able to learn her weak areas so I could help her learn according to how she learns "best".

One of the things I was told was how my daughter if given 10 things to remember was only able to remember about 3 or 4 things out of the 10. That explained a lot to me because I have to admit I would give her a list of things to do and sure enough she never did everything on the list and just as they had explained, she would insist I only actually told her what she could remember. This presented me with a challenge in that in helping her learn according to the way she "can" learn I had to break things down while helping her study and learn for school. The other thing was her challenge with reading. I have to say I was actually surprised by that because my daughter was able to say the entire alphabet at age one and she most certainly was very vocal. Also, when I read her her favorite stories, she would see each page and remember each page word for word. The researchers did tell me that my daughter did have a high IQ, she was very smart and capable, it's just that she happens to "learn" differently.

I think the term "depression" is very broad. I think there are different kinds of depression, or perhaps reasons for depression. I think that it's quite possible that a person can be quite intelligent and may need to be doing something that can stimulate their mind in a way that doesn't overwhelm it with too much "clutter". I have noticed this is something that can most definitely contribute to my daughter's periods of feeling "depressed" or anxious, it's the clutter that can cause her to struggle, and if she is doing something that compliments her personal way of mental functioning and cognitive ability, she is much happier and content.

If you are a person that can't focus on the few holes in the leaking dike and ignore all the holes that need to be filled, then you are most likely an individual who will experience anxiety because you happen to get overwhelmed with the clutter that presents in that atmosphere.

What I helped my daughter slowly learn is "breaking the clutter down". To my surprise my daughter has actually learned to function very well with using this kind of breakdown method to "learning and functioning". My daughter likes to ride and compete with horses. She likes to compete with her horses both on the flat but also in jumping competitions. In jumping competitions the rider has to memorize each course sequence they are expected to jump. Often I would watch my daughter memorize a course of eight fences, and I remembered how I was told by the specialists that my daughter would only be able to remember 3 or 4 things out of 10. I had noticed that she NEVER forgets a course even when the course is changed so I asked her how she can remember all those jumps in order. My daughter replied, "oh, it's easy mom, I do it this way, 1,2,3 and 4,5,6, and 7,8, and off. She found a way to remove the "clutter" in her mind where she did not experience anxiety about remembering each course.

So with that in mind, the reason I had asked you if you had a plan/goal in what you want to go back to school for, is to see if you have an idea of what you can learn to do where you can engage in doing something that best suits your mind. This can be helpful in reducing the kind of "clutter" that might contribute to your "anxiety and depression" challenges.[/QUOTE]

So the plan in terms of the intent behind further education starts with the flexible employability that nursing offers, but then expands to the intertwining of medical research and application (I may eventually go for a Master's or PhD) utilized towards the end of advocacy for mental health. I believe the kinds of strategies you are talking about fall under the category of metacognition, and I think that this may be key in addressing some of my academic concerns. I'm certainly left with the impression, that in my own experience, though my depression may maintain a relationship with my focus, attention, and memory, I can still struggle with these areas even when I'm not amidst an acute depressive episodes (though acute depressive episodes exacerbate things). There may be a few considerations here. One, could be that these cognitive issues could be separate from the depression, and require further dissection to determine their cause. Alternatively, being depressed may not just effect cognition during acute episodes, but may have downstream consequences on learning and practicing skills that help to maximize attention, focus, and memory. Currently, meditation is a tactic I'm using to help hone focused attention (as opposed to distributed attention). I'm also trying to make use of goal boards as reminders of purpose. I'm also trying to make greater use of mnemonic acronyms.

Ok, I see, you want to go back to get a nursing degree so you can get employment that pays well and also can provide more flexibility so you can do further studies. Getting a nursing degree "now" verses years ago is a bit harder in that nurses are now expected to learn a lot more then years ago. I knew someone who was a LPN (one year in education) and wanted to get her RN degree (usually requires 4 years)and she was surprised at how much she had to actually learn and felt like she was a pre-med student. However, she was getting her degree to get higher pay in that she was not actually using it to be a nurse but instead for higher pay in the insurance company she was working with where her added degree would substantially increase her pay. Yes, there are things a person can do with a nursing degree that are jobs not involving one to do nursing in a hospital or doctor's office as this woman works for a huge health insurance company handling all kinds of clients and insurance situations that require her to have more medical knowledge. She actually works out of her home and is on the computer a lot as well as communicating with clients from home. So, there are a lot of ways one can utilize a nursing degree.

However, that being said, you will still be exposed to the bureaucracy where servicing needs will fall short as that is an ongoing problem when it comes to our present overall healthcare system. That being said, if you are thinking of pursuing this direction as a springboard towards something else, it's not a bad choice.

Yeah, I think the persistence you allude to is quite important. Kudos for your efforts.