Dealing with Support Group problems

Dr Clay suggested this as a new topic that might help members here. It isn't the actual problems members take to group support, but the problems of being in a support group, and how you and others handle and deal with those problems.

Do you attend a support group? What types of things do you wish would happen in group that aren't? What happens in your group interaction that you wish didn't? How are problems within the group itself handled and solved (such as someone who always talks forever...)

Anyone's input here is welcomed, on topic, of course!

OK... the topic can begin with what you like about support groups... I'm sure the problems will come out sooner or later.

One of the problems I had being in AA was when I moved to a small town with a large population of Christian evangelists. These folks used the Bible instead of the AA Big Book, stood up and testified in a manner consistent with their religious tradition and offensive to my approach to spirituality. I stopped going to meetings at that point, but I was already long sober and pretty safe in my recovery.

So one problem is finding a group whose overall values and approach is consistent with one's own. Otherwise, one will not be able to feel comfortable with the program or the group.

Even when I lived in a more metropolitan area, it was possible to shop around. I liked women's meetings and study meetings, compared with open meetings or speaker meetings. I could use those to address issues on a small, intimate scale and learn from others.

Each person has to find the groups that are right for him or her.

Hi Sky
I think the main problem for me is that I still not find a place in all these places. When I saw the forum about self-help, I thought it could be helpfull for me, but now I'm not sure.
I have a neuromuscular disorder that is recent in my life.
Social isolation, lack of self-confidence, frustration, the impact of disability in all aspects of my life and in my identity are just some of the things that I can recognize inside myself and that move me towards some kind of support group.
The forum on Dr Clay's book could be a good place to learn, to share experiences, to find help to help myself. I think a support group should be a place that persons like to be in, not a place that people are wishing to go out. I think I'm not able to discuss ethics or philosophy and I don't understand the goals of this forum.
Thank you for listening.
pearleaf

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_Sky said:
Dr Clay suggested this as a new topic that might help members here. It isn't the actual problems members take to group support, but the problems of being in a support group, and how you and others handle and deal with those problems.

Do you attend a support group? What types of things do you wish would happen in group that aren't? What happens in your group interaction that you wish didn't? How are problems within the group itself handled and solved (such as someone who always talks forever...)

Anyone's input here is welcomed, on topic, of course!

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Hey, pearleaf, I think the goals of this forum are to share problems we each have, such as you have here:

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pearleaf said:
Social isolation, lack of self-confidence, frustration, the impact of disability in all aspects of my life and in my identity are just some of the things that I can recognize inside myself and that move me towards some kind of support group.

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and see if other people have stories, ideas, ways they've coped with similar problems. Dr. Clay has written his wonderful book which is kind of a backdrop reference for how to "do" self-help, has the psychology behind problems, teaches how to goal-set, and generally makes some problems seem more manageable and open to applying self-help to them.

Sky's great wording of this particular post suggested by Dr. Clay is to explore any experiences we've had with support groups, whether this one, other online groups or face-to-face support groups.

When I was moving a couple years ago, from the neighborhood I'd been in for 20 years and terminating my therapy and quitting my job/retiring it was a very stressful time and I thought it might be a good idea to join a women's support group. I found one I thought would be good but I was the only one who attended regularly! It was only once a month but for the first 3-4 months I pretty much met different members each month :-) That was kind of stressful for me and while the group leader (an MSW, it was at her home) tried to get both more people coming and pin down people to attend more often, it didn't happen. Too, there was one vivacious woman who was into doing a lot of online dating/meeting and pretty much had a "hobby" of meeting/dating new guys. I didn't think she was really looking for a serious relationship and she did all sorts of things I didn't agree with "morally" (she'd arrive late at a meeting site so she could see if she liked a guy's looks and if she didn't, she'd leave without even talking to the guy or letting her see her, etc.). Too, I'm happily married and most of the other women were single or having trouble with their relationships so I never felt like I fit in. When I actually found a place to move to, the packing/moving part was time consuming and the new place was too far from the old, so I used that as an excuse to quit the group.

I agree with Wants2fly, you have to make sure you're compatible with the other members!

I tried al-anon one time.I had to travel about 40kms to get there.I didn't get it. There was a church guy explaining how he was always expected to be a good guy.They talked about the inner child and stuff.I thought they would talk about relatives with alcohol or drug problems. I expected to learn what to do in certain situations. I suppose my main problem was having different expectations to what was offered.

When I was a teenager I also didnt get the purpose of a support group.The other teens had what i thought were trivial problems so I didn't realise I should have got support for my issues,which seemed to me at the time I didn't want to blow their minds.lol.

I do get the purpose of PC however and I enjoy it very much.It offers something I haven't had.A listening ear. .....kind regards Jjulia

Hey, Julia. I had the opposite problem to you when I was in group therapy; I thought the other people had much more "serious" problems than I did. It is funny how we perceive our own stuff and "compare" that to how we see other people's stuff.

I would hope that this topic would help many people on PC. It seems to be a common problem that new people don't find the topic the group is on at the time they join is of interest or relevance to them. My experience is that there are thousands of problem and the chances of a group being right on target for you is slim. So, what can a new member do?

In many group an experienced member will take the lead in asking in some detail "what is your situation?" Or "how would you like this group to help you?" If there is a therapist leading the group, they will invite new group members to speak freely and openly. _Sky often does that in this group...and Perna...and Wants... Of course, the new member has to be courageous and describe what that want from the group with what problem. Once done and the group has accepted the task of helping you with your problem, then you usually see the group as your group that is caring, understanding, and have some experience that is related to your real concerns.

If the group you are entering and testing out doesn't encourage you to speak up about the real concerns you have, then you probably need to ask them to focus on your concerns and be prepared to paint the picture of what is happening to you. This might take several minutes or 1/2 an hour. Hopefully, the group will ask you questions--and share their related experiences--but when you have a chance to finish your story, get on with it. In later meetings you should report problems or progress. In that way your problem becomes part of the group's agenda. Having a group that knows you, cares about you, and devotes time to you is a very satisfying.

Of course, the group need to meet every week or so. Also, there needs to be empathic listeners who doesn't spew out criticism or directions...

I have found such a group to be be enjoyable and cogent and a wonderful experience even if I am supposed to be the leader.

drclay

I was in a mixed support group for I think two or more years. Men n women, aging from 20 to 45. I was the only one with childhood abuse and spousal abuse issues. The only cool thing I remember about group was we sat on huge pillows on the floor. Later on the Ts brought in chairs to sit on which made group more "rigid". Oo yes, the two Ts had these cool comfy chairs and the rest of us ding bats had hard, ugly chairs. We all "*****ed" about the chairs ... lol

One girl started off with all these blond jokes. They were actually funny and I laughed along with everyone. I guess since I thought they were funny she didn't get her kicks by trying to "irk" me. So she started telling some cruel blond jokes and would always glance at me to see my reaction. I didn't give her pleasure by reacting negative. Although after awhile, after her crude joke, I said, I have yet to see an attractive person tell a blond joke. Dead silence in the room. LOL.. That was the last crude blond joke she spouted. The funny dumb blond jokes are really funny. But, some of the blond jokes are just nasty. Ok so I am blonde..

The other thing that stands out is this one guy kept saying, in an embarrassed way, he was an alcoholic. The T kept saying, oo no you are not an alcoholic. Well, years passed and finally one group member asked him how much he drank. He said 4 or 5 bottles of whiskey per week and a few cases of beer on the weekend. All this time, this poor guy was trying to get help for his drinking problem and the T kept him in denial. "shrugs shoulders. The guy eventually went to a psychiatrist and got some kind of meds to help with his drinking problem. I always felt bad for this guy. He was suffering so bad and the T just kept him in denial...

So a book later, I have no idea what the purpose was for group therapy. No problems were solved or resolved. Maybe this was the T's first time doing group and they did not know what they were doing. Seemed nobody in group "got better". To me, it was all a waste of time. I think support groups can be good, but I also think good Ts are also needed to keep things rolling.. oh yes, and good groups I would think would mean "good results" ??????

I

Hi, Perna
I think I was confused because I read all the posts on the subject "What should we work on? or what would you want to work on first" started by Sky. The question motivated me to join this forum, but my motivation was not the same at the end of my reading. At some point I was reading many things about philosophy and this was not included in my expectations about a support group.
As I'm begging to try to join a support group, my experience is just of someone who didn't speak yet but would like to do this.
Dr. Clay put a light on this when he said that the new person in a group has to have courage to speak about his/her main problems. I started to read his book, I would like to hear from other experiences and would like to share mine. What would you suggest for me: post something on the thread started by Sky (What should...) or start a new one?
pearleaf

I think that this thread is a good place to talk about any issues with Support Groups, problems or not, or non issues even.

I, personally, don't assimilate well into groups that are for support only (I work well in groups/teams to accomplish a task though.) There are just too many different things going on to give any one person or thing full focus, imo. Plus, now, I have moderate to profound deafness, and would miss many points made, especially if two people spoke at once or had a quick exchanging of ideas.

I think a group needs to really have more in common than not with regards to problems. That would keep the group support at least going in basically the same direction, with many of the participants receiving validation from one meeting. But this is just my POV.

Dealing with Support Groups

I hear you saying, _Sky, that there are two basic purposes in many Support Groups--to encourage another person and let them know you know how they are feeling, often because you have been there. Then there is support in the form of "when I had the problem you just described (know someone who had this problem), this is what worked for me (or them)--I hope it will help you."

Most of us can let people know that we know how they have been feeling. People appreciate this kind of understanding; it says "you are or may be hurting but you are OK." Many people have acquired knowledge in different ways about how to deal with psychological/interpersonal problems. Help coming to you from them may be especially appreciated whether the knowledge comes from life experiences or from professional training or experience.

I strongly agree with _Sky and others who value help in either form--i.e. heart-felt sympathy or empathy and wisdom about how human pain is caused and relieved. These are great skills that everyone can learn, i.e. active listening (Chapter 13) and Self-Help methods (this and thousands of other books). This forum can help you learn all this stuff--just ask for understanding or ask for practical knowledge.

drclay

Thank you for the references, Dr. Clay.

I attended the 12 step CODA meetings for a while years ago, and found that thought we talked about dysfunctional relationships, most of the focus was on ME, ME, ME! Some of the leading members kept emphasizing this...take care of yourself first! In the end, I kind of determined that "codependence" is a bit of a myth. I mean...for sure, if you are in a healthy loving relationship, are yoiu always thinking of yourself first?
Patty

I’m sorry that you’ve had such unsatisfactory experiences, Patty. I’ve attended AA, Al-Anon, ACOA, and Emotions Anonymous.

I think the general idea is to establish discernment and balance in my life. I’ve never heard anyone suggest ignoring the legitimate needs, wants, desires of a friend, family, spouse, or intimate partner.

For example, in my marriage, I needed a lot of attention from my husband. I remember pouting because he abruptly decided to help an old woman move on Saturday, my day off from work, when I’d wanted to spend the whole day together. This is not taking care of me. It is about my dysfunctional emotions. He was not a spouse who routinely ignored my needs – and I have had to develop discernment, the wisdom to know the difference between being needy and a doormate.

Taking care of me can involve learning to do things apart from an intimate partner, building self-identity and self-esteem outside of our cultural ideal of being part of a couple. I also have had to learn to identify and establish my boundaries.

That’s another thing that’s been a challenging part of learning self-care –identify when I am hungry, angry, lonely, over-committed and tired. There are times when I am a stranger to my deepest inner feelings. In such cases, catering to someone else’s needs, wants, desire – even if they are valid – may conflict with my own. Then, I have to experiment with communication and negotiation strategies to preserve a balance between selfishness, love, and self-care.

Not everything that we hear at a self-help meeting is good advice. We hear things that are selfish, angry, silly, ignorant, dysfunctional, and inconsistent with the program steps. We also hear things that are wise, compassionate, useful, and helpful. We are all seekers (no pun intended) at a self-help meeting; there is no therapist or facilitator. So each of us must take what we need and leave the rest.

I can understand why you would come away thinking that there is no such thing as co-dependence, especially if you attended a meeting where there were no or few words of wisdom. I don’t think co-dependence exists as a thing “out there” that we can point to – like the Grand Canyon. Rather, it exists within a specific situation, a specific relationship, the way a specific person – ME – relates to others. Putting what’s happening out in the open gives me a chance to get my bearings – just as people share here to do perspective-checking.

The slogans, the emphasis on a higher power, the rituals, of 12-step programs can be a real turn-off for some people. That’s okay, too. We each must find our own way on life’s journey. I’m sorry that you weren’t able to hook up with meetings where your needs could be met.

Yes, Wants, I realize it was the dynamics of this particular group, with one very vocal (and shallow-minded) member setting the tone.
Thanks,
Patty

That's too bad... about the one person setting the tone for the whole session. I think that is the responsibility of the person in charge of the group to keep that from always happening. To allow such behavior to continue is a good way to ruin a group. IMO

Not everyone can "run" a good support group. Everyone might think it's easy, easier than one on one, but if they go into it with that mindset they might easily miss the difficulty. (They might not be prepared to put in the time and effort it takes to run a good group....or rather, to facilitate a group so it's a good group for it's members.) Just my POV.

I did well with DBT because it was structured and more like a teacher/student setting.

I don't do well at all with open "mike" settings. I tend to isolate and disassociate.

Hi Sky
I agree with you: "a group needs to really have more in common than not with regards to problems."

I really hope that this forum has the force to group people in the same direction (motivate people to help each other in helping themselves).

Thank you for being there!
pearlleaf

I agree that having one person take over, especially if that person doesn't have the depth, compassion, and communication strategies to run a group effectively, can kill the meeting. I don't necessarily believe that it requires training to be a good facilitator -- some people seem to have a knack for it -- but training or training-by-observing can help people like me who don't naturally have excellent people skills and have to learn it the hard way.

Hello Dr Clay
Thank you. Your words encourage me in the challenge of learn these skills.
As I said to Perna, I would like to cope with a new condition in my life, a neuromuscular disease, learning to accept new limits and learning to integrate them in my self image. I think doing this I could struggle with depression and could be a better person to me and to the others.
pearleaf

I have been to coda too, and I found something similar to you seeker so I didnt stick it. But, what I found in AA was almost an opposite message, they emphasise service and caring and giving to others.
I think sometines people when trying to change behaviour swing to extremes. I find it almost unbearable to sit through some of that stuff, specially when it is put over as recovery. Take what you like and what you need is, as wantstofly puts it, the general principle. I have spent 12 years in the fellowships, and am now really questioning my paticipation. I may have come to a completely different turning in life now, maybe time to experiment.
My current desire is to furhter explore the whole self disorders understanding and healing, I'd like to do this with others using the fellowship principles, with this as specific focus, but if thats not going to be possible then..........I dont know, maybe time for a change. But I think what I have gained from the fellowships has been the most healing principle I have come accross, at least when its done right.

riverx

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Juliaspavlov said:

When I was a teenager I also didnt get the purpose of a support group.The other teens had what i thought were trivial problems so I didn't realise I should have got support for my issues,which seemed to me at the time I didn't want to blow their minds.lol.

I do get the purpose of PC however and I enjoy it very much.It offers something I haven't had.A listening ear. .....kind regards Jjulia

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<font color="#000088">I had the same problem with groups when I was young, like Julia described above! I couldn't deal with the pissing and moaning about the trivial %#@&#!! I'd end up just getting up and walking out!
But here at PC it's so much different, we all have such a variety of problems and things weve been through that there's always someone that understands what you've been through,or what you're going through now! That PC is like a breath of fresh air compared to those groups back then! Even compared to some support groups I've experienced more recently! There's much more understanding, and supportive members here then any other group I've experienced!
Kudos to PC!
J</font>

I'm curious, did the facilitator KNOW any of what you brought to the group? IMO they wouldn't have paired you with trivial complainers. Maybe they, also, had big issues but couldn't bear to mention them? I think, once again, that it's the responsibility of the person who's running the group, to guide it so it's beneficial for all participants.

Yes, while some people have a knack, it takes skills that you learn to consistently guide a group well.

Sky -- It sounds like you are thinking of support groups that are run by a facilitator with training in social work, psychology, running groups, etc., the kind of group one might find being offered by an outreach organization.

12 step groups are more like Psych Central. Everyone is equal. In AA, the leader may be scheduled for only one meeting, and will appoint others to read the steps, principles, promises, and other traditions that may be particular to that group. Leaders are there to serve, and there is a principle that covers that, too. Then there is sharing, rather like a Quaker meeting. A saying of the labor group known as the Wobblies in the 1930s was "We are all leaders here." And that's pretty much what a 12-step meeting is like. We are leaders, learners, and seekers.