I am looking for some input from the male members here.

How important are looks for you? Would you date an ugly girl? Does personality really matter if looks aren't good?

Thanks,
Courtney

[hamster-bamster]

I am not a guy but I want to make three points:

1)

Originally Posted by Court_Knee

How long do you guys feel is the appropriate amount of time to be with someone before giving into sex?

If you are running into the problem of not knowing when to say "YES" (that was the title of your thread from which I am quoting), it means that you are being actively pursued by at least one guy. Has it occurred to you to consider the possibility that you are NOT UGLY?..

2) Based on observing countless marriages and couples - plain looking women sometimes are happiest in their relationships with men.

3) Personality ALWAYS matters, whatever the looks.

Personality is very important to me, particularly confidence.

I also appreciatea sense of style. A woman who can accessorise and dresses well.

And of course someone who likes her job OR has a hobby she is into is very attractive too.

[adam_k]

If you are asking about yourself, I don't think you are ugly. I think you are very pretty. I think there is more than looks to a releationship. I think generally people with the same view on beauty fit together. I.e. super models and body builder being together. Then you have average people that just enjoy life find being together what works for them. I think you just have to find someone you are attracted to and then find someone who is attracted to you. After that I think personality and values take over and those make or break the releationship.

[hamster-bamster]

Thanks Adam for the idea - I visited the profile.

http://forums.psychcentral.com/member.php?u=13086

Courtney, you have identified your issue incorrectly. You do not have the issue of being ugly. You have the issue of being comletely out of touch with reality!!

You have gorgeous hair that looks almost red (the rarest color that is always alluring), flows nicely and freely, and is clearly your own (the color looks natural).

You are shapely and proportionate.

Your face is symmetrical.

You have big eyes, full lips, even complexion, and a nice row of teeth.

What else do you want??

Originally Posted by Court_Knee

I am looking for some input from the male members here.

How important are looks for you? Would you date an ugly girl? Does personality really matter if looks aren't good?

Thanks,
Courtney

Important but probably not in the way you mean.
Define ugly and I might answer...
The only girls/women I've ever considered ugly were ugly on the inside.
The third question I'll give you a break and answer simply... personality or what I'd call the soul, is the main matter
----------------------
BTW has anyone congratulated you yet on becoming a Grand Poohbah?
I know I was so thrilled...

Why does my asking this question make me "completely out of touch with reality"? People have asked weirder questions then this.

What more could I want? I'm a girl, so I could think of plenty more. I'd love to be skinny, not so pale, smaller nose, etc. But that's not why I posted this. I was genuinely looking for thoughts on looks vs personality.

P.S. my hair is brown not red LOL

Originally Posted by George H.

BTW has anyone congratulated you yet on becoming a Grand Poohbah?
I know I was so thrilled...

No, LOL I'm not even sure what it means! =p

Originally Posted by Court_Knee

Why does my asking this question make me "completely out of touch with reality"? People have asked weirder questions then this.

What more could I want? I'm a girl, so I could think of plenty more. I'd love to be skinny, not so pale, smaller nose, etc. But that's not why I posted this. I was genuinely looking for thoughts on looks vs personality.

P.S. my hair is brown not red LOL

Don't worry about that. I'm sure they meant well
It never occurred to me that you might be asking this out of insecurity or vanity and if it had I wouldn't have said so
And yes there have been a lot of questions asked here that are very very weird and yours don't even come close

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Court_Knee

Why does my asking this question make me "completely out of touch with reality"? People have asked weirder questions then this.

What more could I want? I'm a girl, so I could think of plenty more. I'd love to be skinny, not so pale, smaller nose, etc. But that's not why I posted this. I was genuinely looking for thoughts on looks vs personality.

P.S. my hair is brown not red LOL

"Out of touch with reality" was your assessment of your looks, not asking the question. As a general question, it makes sense - applied personally to you, it seems to show lack of touch with reality.

Matte pale skin is rare and looks classy, but if not desired, is fully treatable with make-up.

Skinny is completely unnecessary. Your body is fine.

The nose is in line with your other facial features so you do not need a smaller nose.

Brown hair is not as rare as red, but still plenty beautiful.

I don't know if I really agree with that. Whether or not a person believes them self to be pretty or ugly is a matter of their own opinion. Opinion is just that, an opinion. An opinion can't be wrong. If I say I like the color yellow more than blue you can't tell me I am out of touch with reality for thinking that. Do you see my point? If I don't like the way I look, if I think I am ugly, it's just MY opinion.

[adam_k]

I think everyone is different as far as what they want out of a releationship. Some people are vain and only want a sexy attractive girl and could care less about anything else. Other people want a soul mate, someone who gets them and is there. Other people want someone with money. Everyone is different and we all have different values and admorations in life.

To answer your question I would date some who I didn't find completly attractive if they had a good personalityand treated me well.I like a girl with a sense of humor. I also appreciate kind hearted compassionate woman. I also admire a women who is outspoken and isn't affraid to he herself and make Ker own way. One of the things I admire about my wife is she doesn't care what people think of her. Sheis happy being who she is.

[adam_k]

I can also relate to feeling you are ugly. I struggle with this a lot. I don't like myself and I have horrible self esteem. Sometimes I dont even want to look at myself in the mirror. I was teased a lot when I was little cause I was a little chubby, and I had fair skin, red hair and freckles. I never felt like I look good. My wife find me attractive, but I still don't like myself.

If it is any constellation, I think you are attractive. I hope one day we can look in the mirror and feel good abut ouselves.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Court_Knee

I don't know if I really agree with that. Whether or not a person believes them self to be pretty or ugly is a matter of their own opinion. Opinion is just that, an opinion. An opinion can't be wrong. If I say I like the color yellow more than blue you can't tell me I am out of touch with reality for thinking that. Do you see my point? If I don't like the way I look, if I think I am ugly, it's just MY opinion.

No. If you make the assessment that you want to be skinny while you are objectively not in need of being skinnier, you are still wrong.

Likewise with the want for a smaller nose. You are unable to form an objective assessment.

So while you can think you are ugly, in the abstract, and call such thinking an opinion and be OK with it, as soon as you start mentioning your concrete wants, you show lack of objectivity.

Plus, by posting the picture and soliciting male opinion on the ugliness, you probably believed the their opinion on your looks is somewhat more important than yours.

If you want to be extra precise, though, you need to rephrase the question - you need to ask how guys react to women who are not objectively ugly but perceive themselves as ugly.

I do not know the answer to that question, but if I were to imagine myself in the position of a hypothetical guy dealing with such a woman, I would leave immediately, because the neediness that would come from this sort of arrangement would not be something that I would look forward to suffering through.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by adam_k

I had fair skin, red hair and freckles.

You do not, anymore? Did your red hair turn brown when you grew older? Did the freckles fade away with time? What a shame. There is nothing wrong with brown hair and unfreckled skin, but freckles and red hair are rare and extra adorable.

[adam_k]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

You do not, anymore? Did your red hair turn brown when you grew older? Did the freckles fade away with time? What a shame. There is nothing wrong with brown hair and unfreckled skin, but freckles and red hair are rare and extra adorable.

My hair turned brown, but I still had freckels and fair skin. I can't tan.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by adam_k

My hair turned brown, but I still had freckels and fair skin. I can't tan.

You need yearly full skin exams by a dermatologist then. I mean, everybody does, but you must ensure that you do not fall off the schedule of yearly check-ups.

[Harley47]

I'm confused Hamster...lol where'd you get the description from? I had assumed the same thing you did, and followed the link, and I don't see anything barring the user profile(well, minus a really cool blue background...how'd you get that Court_Knee? It's nice ).

Anyway, to answer your question Court_Knee, physical appearance is of some importance, of course. I think that applies to both genders, really. But speaking for myself, it's not the sole deciding factor. I care much more about who someone is, you know? Personality is the biggest deciding factor. I've met women who're absolutely drop dead gorgeous, but have the ugliest personalities. In my own eyes, the ugly personality outweighs the looks. Conversely, a beautiful personality is, I think, more than beautiful in its own right. And physical beauty is quite subjective...there are certain "markers" for both sexes that on a biological basis are attractive, but largely, the old maxim that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" holds very true.

So speaking for me personally, personality is what makes or breaks it. Physical appearance is important, but it's not all there is to it. It's who someone really is that's what really matters.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Harley47

I'm confused Hamster...lol where'd you get the description from? I had assumed the same thing you did, and followed the link, and I don't see anything barring the user profile(well, minus a really cool blue background...). .

OP must have changed the profile picture since Adam and I viewed it. I see the same blue background you see now.

[Harley47]

Ah, okay. lol I didn't know if my laptop was missing yet another plug in. I hate updating plug ins...

OP, I just saw this on Facebook. It sums things up well.

"A gorgeous face catches your eye, but a gorgeous personality catches your heart."

lol Now of course that's edited for standard English, so minus a few "ur's" and abbreviations, but the point very much stands.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

No. If you make the assessment that you want to be skinny while you are objectively not in need of being skinnier, you are still wrong.

Likewise with the want for a smaller nose. You are unable to form an objective assessment.

So while you can think you are ugly, in the abstract, and call such thinking an opinion and be OK with it, as soon as you start mentioning your concrete wants, you show lack of objectivity.

Plus, by posting the picture and soliciting male opinion on the ugliness, you probably believed the their opinion on your looks is somewhat more important than yours.

If you want to be extra precise, though, you need to rephrase the question - you need to ask how guys react to women who are not objectively ugly but perceive themselves as ugly.

I do not know the answer to that question, but if I were to imagine myself in the position of a hypothetical guy dealing with such a woman, I would leave immediately, because the neediness that would come from this sort of arrangement would not be something that I would look forward to suffering through.

First of all, I made the statements of hypothetical wants (smaller nose, skinnier body, etc) in response to YOUR statement "what more could you want?" AFTER you had made the comment that I am "completely out of touch with reality" to prove a point that as a female there is always going to be something looks wise we want. That doesn't mean I am actively pursing those wants.

Second, I didn't post a photo of myself soliciting male opinions on my degree of "ugliness". Allow me to point out the fact that YOU posted a link to MY Psych Central page where it had a photo of me which I took down to avoid further conflict.

I started this thread with the genuine intention of seeking a general consensus from the males on what matters more looks vs personality. You made it about me, I didn't.

So judge me all you want for my questions, that's fine. Just be aware that you have no tact.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Court_Knee

I am looking for some input from the male members here.

How important are looks for you? Would you date an ugly girl? Does personality really matter if looks aren't good?

Thanks,
Courtney

Your question implies that you believe in some sort of a dichotomy "looks - personality".

There is more to being attractive than looks-personality.

There are also good manners.

Good manners make attractive people much more attractive. Good manners endear you to others.

As of 4/15 7PM PST, the following post has no THANKS from you

Originally Posted by adam_k

If you are asking about yourself, I don't think you are ugly. I think you are very pretty.

POSTED 4/14 at 11:22 PM

even though you HAVE posted several times since, beginning on 4/14 at 11:51 PM.

So based on the picture that you have since removed, you are a young woman. You are no longer 3 years old. Therefore, you should by now have learned that when a guy pays you a compliment, you should acknowledge it gracefully.

Are you new to the site and just happen to be unaware of the THANKS button?

No, based on your stats:

Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,792

you are aware of the THANKS button. Moreover, you have used it on this thread (thanks for doing that).

So on the surface, you simply lack good manners, and that clearly would present difficulties for you, even though you are objectively pretty and even though you might have a great personality (with a caveat, see below).

Where do manners come from?

They come from two sources (or a mixture of them): personality and learning.

The personality source of good manners: usually, people like to thank others for being nice. It is part of their personalities. It does not require effort to be nice in response. It feels good to be nice in response. It feels good to be appreciative.

The learning source of good manners: this part is obvious. But, it is where you can change for the better - you can learn good manners.

That said, below the surface, to give you the benefit of the doubt, might lie some abuse-related and deep-seated inability to take a compliment gracefully. I have read about such cases here - when women cannot accept a compliment (not necessarily on looks, but could be on a job well done)... disbelieve the genuineness of the person who paid the compliment... etc. They cannot accept compliments NOT because they are rude, but because of some deep issues. If that is the case, therapy is recommended.

Which case is yours - the one on the surface or the one below the surface? You probably know better.

So with that, I am sorry for taking this turn away from its intended purpose, but I think that I am justified in making the observation I make, because it seems to me that the OP's purpose was practical rather than theoretical. Or, at least, it was to some degree practical. The practical part seems to be: "I believe that I am ugly, but have a great personality, and wonder if the personality will salvage my situation in the (perceived) absence of good looks."

So if indeed that was one the practical purposes of the OP, then I can tell you with confidence that you can ALWAYS improve the attractiveness by having good manners (this applies equally to both genders), and to the extent that they could be learned, that is where your efforts would be needed. Or, in the case of abuse-related inability to accept a compliment, then the joint efforts of T and you would be needed.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Court_Knee

Second, I didn't post a photo of myself soliciting male opinions on my degree of "ugliness". Allow me to point out the fact that YOU posted a link to MY Psych Central page where it had a photo of me which I took down to avoid further conflict.

So judge me all you want for my questions, that's fine. Just be aware that you have no tact.

The point remains that your profile, at the time of OP, had your picture (and that of your really cute dog). That, as a fact, speaks more to your intentions than your words do. My posting a link to your profile page, which, within the site, is public, is of no consequence. If you did not want males to look at the picture, you should not have had it up AT THE TIME of posting.

Adam's compliment remains unacknowledged by you, so you clearly have a really interesting and unusual view of tact, privacy, how to manifest one's intentions properly, and other such matters that are not in any way related to looks.

You do not need to respond to me - since I already wasted my time trying to show to you that you have nothing to worry about (no, girls who do not worry about their looks do not waste their time on such highly theoretical pursuits as "I started this thread with the genuine intention of seeking a general consensus from the males on what matters more looks vs personality."; even in the very unlikely scenario that someone would genuinely seek a general consensus on what in her mind appears to be a binary issue between personality and looks, she would use the poll functionality for voting - someone with your 5-year tenure on the board must be aware of how polls are posted and that people seeking general consensus, as a rule, post polls) - I do not intend to waste any more time on you.

You're right. Sorry for being unclear in my question. Sorry for being rude and not hitting "thanks" on Adams post and sorry for wasting your time. Thanks for your reply.

Have a good night.

[allimsaying]

Originally Posted by Court_Knee

I am looking for some input from the male members here.

How important are looks for you? Would you date an ugly girl? Does personality really matter if looks aren't good?

Thanks,
Courtney

Looks are medium important to me. Passing on the middle question. Good personality is a big big plus.