a question about dating - just aimlessly curious

So I started deleting messages on OK Cupid because my mailbox is full and I won't pay for an upgrade.

I deleted several messages from a guy whose profile picture shows his torso. His torso is hairless and average looking.

There was nothing else.

I did not look at the profile.

My question is - what was the expectation of the guy when he chose his profile picture? I mean, he is not stupid, I am sure - there just must be some sort of a niche market for him... women who respond to completely uninteresting, standard looking, hairless torsos.

I mean... a HEADLESS torso!! What could be going on in his mind (since the torso is headless, I am not sure he even HAS a mind...)?

Sleepy Hollow, anyone?..

OK, if he writes again, I will just ask him bluntly what he has in mind (again, maybe he does not have a mind for reasons stated above).

Sorry for aimless curiosity - just trying to make sense of the world around me.

Was it Carlos Danger???

quoting from huffington post:

"I’ve been in contact with a young female girl who wishes to remain Anonymous. She was lured by Anthony Weiner post scandal via Facebook. They had a relationship for 6 months and she believed they were in love. Anthony Weiner like a true sex predator promised Anonymous many things like a job at Politico and a condo in Chicago (a place they could meet up and have sex). The relationship consisted of Anthony Weiner and Anonymous sending sexually explicit pictures of each other and having sexual conversations via phone."

Now I am even MORE confused.

How can one be a non-female girl???

A correction: it was a quote that HP itself took from elsewhere. So the editorial standards of HP itself appear intact.

Probably did it for the same reason girls have profile pictures showing just their breasts or something. Maybe their hoping to hook people by showing that their body is attractive enough? For some people I know bodies matter more than faces. Maybe it doesnt show his head because hes worried about someone he knows finding the profile, and would give headshots via email?
Really I dont know, people do weird things.

I do get the anonymity, but I think that people who have no pictures (for reasons of anonymity) fare better, because it is kind of odd - the headless torso is too impersonal. I can see a woman showcasing her breasts, but breasts are more unique looking (unless they are implants), so there would still be a little personality, so to speak. The headless torso is so standard that it looks like a mannequin from a men's clothing store.

She could be gender queer, i.e 'an androgynous girl' or something. Maybe they were saying it to point out she was feminine.

Ahahahahaha.
No, i get what your saying. If they want to be anonyous, better off to have no picture than to show a relatively non-sexual part of your body. Maybe he knows how average he is and doesnt want to set up women for a let down. Its sort of easy to understand for me because so many ripped guys have their chests as a profile pic to show off, that maybe its become standard for men and he was just following the 'norm'.

Oh I hate those with passion! With passion!

Another mystery: people who disappear. I found several messages like this:

love your smile!
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Many of them. So people create accounts and then leave? I did not record when those messages were sent before deleting them, but I am sure not too long ago - may be a few months ago, tops (I only opened the account in late 2012). So... these men have found their dream girl in such a short time? all of them? Sounds weird, since people keep complaining about the ineffectiveness of online dating (granted, there is self-selection into complaining - those who are happy with online dating do not complain online - they are busy enjoying the results of dating). Ok, so maybe one or two have quickly found partners, but what about the rest? Why do people delete the profiles - the profile is just sitting there for free, so why delete it?

Puzzled.

I do get what you are saying, but I think in this case it was just horrible writing. This is because in that kind of story, the male and the female are average/standard (hence, a condo in Chicago and not something unusual/esoteric). So - she could not have been gender queer - she was a garden variety female who might want to own a condo in a major metro area. I think. Tabloid fodder does not contain stories about adrogynous girls, to the best of my knowledge (I do not read tabloids, but I regularly read the cover pages when waiting in line for groceries, so I have some knowledge).

"female girl" reminds me of "male goat's milk" - many years ago I saw the word combination "goat milk" translated into a language that has different words for male and female goats (sort of like bull and cow) as "male goat's milk". Then you want to ask the translator/writer: "really?.."

I figured out why I hate those with such passion:

1) Some muscle definition is good, but more than that does look kind of dumb.

2) Spending that many hours in the gym is kind of very dumb.

3) Men should not spend so much time on their appearance.

4) Often, these ripped guys are also waxing their hair off their torsos, and I happen to simply hate the look of waxed torsos - somebody on here mentioned that waxed genitals look prepubescent - well at least they look prepubescent which is still real - waxed torsos do not even look prepubescent)

5) What seems present in this kind of ripped look is insecurity, anxiety, and low self esteem. If a guy does not feel secure enough "as is", but feels that he needs to spend hours at the gym to look good enough to date... then I would not be interested in meeting with him in the first place.

To be sure I do not offend anybody: if an athlete is muscular, it is perfectly fine - they train for performance. They do not train to get a ripped look. And, one can tell - there are very special things about true athletes, a very special drive, and it is obvious when a person possesses it. Also, a body that is naturally muscular - as sometimes happens though not frequently - looks different from a body that has a ripped look due to steroids, whey shakes (yuck!, I imagine) and hours at the gym, so I am not against people who are naturally muscular or are athletes. Or, against men who train in the Army. It is only guys who want to get a ripped look to impress girls that are so pathetic and boring.

It is a chicken and egg though: who is to blame? who started it? did this craze start because girls started to expect a ripped look? or did it start because boys decided that they would fare better with a ripped look? whose fault was it?

keep deleting and visiting profiles as I go...

... a new trend...

...so the profile picture shows two men equally...

...this is for straight guys, mind you - since I am straight, straight guys write to me...

...so, two men on the picture - and not as in "one man close up and one happens to be outside of the main focus of the picture" but as in "TWO EQUALLY PROMINENT PEOPLE are on the picture"...

...I got kind of curious...

...at first, I did not realize WHY I got curious...

...now I know - this is because eventually I would try a MMF trio (hate the word threesome) so those profiles look like just what the doctor ordered for me...

...so I read the profiles...

...no, these are not male friends looking to add a woman for a MMF...

...no, they are just single straight males of the standard kind...

...and the profile, somewhere, says: "On the picture, I am the one in a blue shirt."

...OK, finally I got it - I am slow, but not completely dumb:

In the profile, there was a legend assisting me in identifying the profile owner on the picture. The legend said - "Look at the picture of two equally prominent men again and notice the one in a blue shirt - that is ME!"

...to that I wanted to say:

"dude,

it is the next millennium already

and you are kind of in Silicon Valley and not even in Kansas anymore

there are photo editing tools... ever heard of them?

yeah, you could edit the picture to just post a picture of you, alone

yeah, I told it - it is already the next millennium. Wake up!"

***

I should not have called it a trend - two such profiles so far. But still... puzzled.

LOL.....the headless horseman......I think I would only accept a date with the horse thank you....riding horses is more enjoyable than dating any day

At the same time, why leave a profile your not using up? Especially if it has all your personal information on it, pictures of you, etc. It might be the stigma of dating sites to, because a lot of people would be embarrassed if someone they knew found them on a dating site.

Your probably right. I cant write for ****, so ill trust your judgment over mine on this any day.
Im getting off topic. Cant only female goats produce milk? Why would the male ones be able to? Maybe i just didnt understand what you were saying...

Maybe getting that ripped look and obsessing over that is kind of like women shopping, doing their hair, coordinating outfits, etc. People set an ideal in their head for themselves and try to live up to it. For a while i was into working out as a way to deal with stress, and started chasing different 'looks'. I think its natural, especially with how much the media has to do with everyone's self image.
I dont really have a preference when it comes to men and whether or not they have hair on their chests and genitals, but i prefer women to be waxed. Ive never thought a women who waxed looked like a little girl. Either way i like it more because its more functional.
You wouldnt want a man to work out? I understand not wanting him to work out excessively, i guess, but if he just likes it, and likes how he looks for himself, I dont see a problem.

Ahahahahah. Sounds like laziness to me.

Easy, be transgender. Female and male usually refers to sex (genitalia, hormones, chromosomes), although they are sometimes used to refer to gender. Girl is a gendered term (gender being an internal sense of identity). I'm a genderqueer female, for example. I identify as intergender (between man and woman) and am biologically normatively female.

Maybe he's cheating on his wife, hamster. That's the first thought that comes to mind as a human male.

Eskie,

Funny you would say that, as a woman riding a horse is an obviously sexual image. Highly sexual. Highly highly sexual, so it would be quite obvious that your riding horses would be FAR more enjoyable than my trying to date retards off OKC...

quite possible your explanation fits the best, as being the simplest and most mundane.

Yes, only female goats can produce milk. As a more general statement, only female members of any mammal species can produce milk. the translator was a retard.

It is entirely possible that getting that ripped look is indeed akin to women's doing their hair and coordinating outfits, and, since I am just "wash the hair and let it air dry and slip in a dress and cruise on" kind of a woman, I do not get the male's equivalent of doing the hair and coordinating outfits. Quite possible.

Chasing the look offered in the media disqualifies a man for me. So that was probably what I was trying to say when I expressed my reactions to the torso. It does not mean that I prefer men who are not muscular. Actually, on Monday I had lunch with a friend whom I met more than 5 years ago via my then husband's running club. He was kind of interested in me back then, but not only was I married, but so was he, and I was friendly with his wife, and their daughters played with my daughters (same age) etc., which ruled out the possibility of exploring his interest further, though in theory I reciprocated the interest.

So we met - we are now both divorced, and, interestingly enough - actually an amazing coincidence - our ex spouses behave the same way. They even get the same amount of support from us. And they both turn the daughters against us (I foolishly gave up trying to get parttime custody a few years ago, and so did he).

So we talked a lot, but mostly just sharing notes on the ex spouses' behavior.

But kind of, also, did take a moment to at least confirm that yes, both of us would, at least in theory, be more than glad to take the matters further.

So he is... amazingly muscular. Amazingly. I always knew he had extremely muscular legs - as in, "harder than iron and very big", and he complained, a lot, about the wrong twitch (there are different types of muscles) - his muscles were the wrong twitch for long distance running. He had the right twitch for sprinting, and was a sprinter in the days of his youth, but then changed it, and he was competing in long distance running events for which he had the wrong twitch (my son has the right twitch muscles for long distance running - his legs are skinny... very skinny... ).

But he also has hugely muscular arms - he showed me on Monday and I squeezed them and yes, sure, astounding.

And all of that is cool.

But he is not chasing a look from a magazine - he is a passionate athlete and participates in extreme sports - you know, those mud races with obstacles and all of those? Serious stuff. And he has fun with it. And I like that.

But working out to get a ripped look - oh no, god forbid, not with me.

Plus, athletes do not necessarily have the ripped look. I have a friend whose husband - a very nice man and I can easily see myself being with him although I am not positively attracted to him, but sure, i do see all kinds of good qualities in him - so he bikes, with his friends, from palo alto to santa cruz

EVERY WEEKEND

he is very skinny

I would much prefer a skinny biker able to bike for such long distances while enjoying breathtaking views along the Coast than a guy who works on his musculature at a stuffy gym. The biker wins any day.

You guys are cracking me up. I haven't spent much time on OKC, as I prefer the lower class of lonely heart on POF myself. After a few years experience with it and other dating sites, there are a few things that seem to be universal truths. First, nobody ever looks like their picture and its usually a waste of time to put one up. Second, our appearance changes ever so slightly daily. Not a big deal unless five years worth of days have passed since the picture was taken. Then it's a very noticeable difference and can be quite a big deal Third, if there is no picture, there's usually a reason. Many are married and some are just butt ugly. Lets face it, does it really doesn't matter how great somebody's profile is? If they're ugly, then they're just ugly. There's not much they can do about it except show a picture of their shaved torso, butt, boat, car, horses... fill in the blank.

For the record, not all body builders are grotesquely ripped and pumped. There really are some people who just work out to look and feel good without deep underlying motivation or being an "athlete". I'm one of them. Do I enjoy looking good? Of course I do, but that's secondary to feeling good. Or at least it is to me. I don't find it necessary to spend hours in the gym or shave myself, but that's just me. Forty five minutes a day, three days a week and I'm good to go. To be completely honest, I don't remember anyone ever complaining because I looked nice. But I have had more than one tell me I looked better in person. Its always better to be a pleasant surprise than a dissappointment.

Thank you for posting all of this. It has been most entertaining.

Duh. Sorry i had a moment there.

Why? Is it like a weakness to you? Or just personal preference since you dont spend a lot of time on your own appearance and wouldnt want your partner to? I guess since i wouldnt even consider putting a girl as undatable for that reason, it seems strange to me. Then again, its hard to find any girl around my age that doesnt follow trends and stuff, so thats probably why haha.
Different kinds of muscle? Whats a twitch? Im guessing it has to do with having an advantage in different sports but if someone trained in the sport, wouldnt they eventually develop the right muscles to play that sport?

Maybe. At the same time wouldnt there be something that stands out about the chest that could help his wife identify him? Or was the torso that typical? Haha. But more anonymous then his face, i guess.

This is great hahaha

Oh how we all have our moments here and there!

very true on all counts

It seems like a weakness as in "insecurity, lack of solid sense of self / identity", yes, but I acknowledge Roadkill's take on it as well (see above). Some people like it and like the feeling good and not just looking good. And, 45 minutes a day is not hours at the gym.

Another thing is about what a man is doing with his life. Since I expect men to be doing something worthwhile with their lives, if they are spending too much time at the gym (outside of training for something), then the question is - why do they not have something pressingly and overwhelmingly interesting to occupy them enough so that they would NOT have so many hours for being at the gym...

There is also, and most definitely, a search for commonality, and I hired a lawyer (who turned out to be great) based on that. I interviewed a woman who seemed all OK, but her professional look (a suit), her make-up (way too much and the kind of make-up that clashes with the natural look of the face rather than accentuates, subtly, the natural look of the face, and I hate that kind of make-up with passion - I am not against all make-up, no!), her costume jewelry (uninteresting, uncreative kind of costume jewelry that you would expect to see with her formal suit and such make-up as she wore... let me explain by saying what it was NOT: not bohemian or vintage or anything worthy of note in my book - mass-produced costume jewelry yuck yuck yuck) all put me off.

And I hired a wonderful guy whose shirts are a bit wrinkled and whose jeans do not exactly fit him well (are a bit relaxed, just a bit off).

And, I am very happy with him because he and I are cut from the same cloth. I do realize that appearance correlates with work performance - just as he does not care enough about having well-ironed shirts, and, just as his nails are trimmed too short because he apparently does not like trimming them so he trims as much as he can, so, also, he...

...sometimes forgets where he puts this or that document...

...sometimes is a bit late if I meet him in the office at 9AM...

...but the outcome is still fine - he gets the work done.

I realize that the woman in costume jewelry probably never forgets where she puts documents...

...is probably never late...

...but it does not mean that the outcome would have been better with her.

And since I am sometimes a bit late... and, not always is my hair completely detangled (it is detangled, but not completely)...but, I also do get the job done at my work...

...I prefer to deal with people who are a bit sloppy and yet get the job done since with such people I kind of feel more comfortable. More at ease.

So appearance reflects personality. So for now, since I care enough not to have a lawyer who looks too neat, I certainly care enough not to have boyfriends who are too neat and polished. Or, god forbid, preoccupied with appearance.

That said, since I do get messages from younger men on OKC, and some of them have several photos such that on a couple of them I see their muscles, and on others I see their faces, and, their faces do not appear dumb at all, I say to myself: these kids are not at fault. They are fine people who might be interesting, nice, and all the rest of that. Their culture expects them to be this way, so one should not discriminate against them based on that. Imagine yourself living under that kind of pressure from mass media.

So hopefully if I keep thinking along these lines of not discriminating based on appearance, I will eventually reconcile myself with the notion of dating guys with waxed/shaved torsos. I will keep you posted .

I know very little about it. I know about this guy I described above and my two children. This guy said that he trained so much as a sprinter (sprinting=all-out short term effort) that he developed the sprinter twitch, and that later he could not change the sprinter twitch into long-distance runner twitch (I am not using the right terminology - this is something I heard a few times several years ago).

My son: skinny, 6 ft, very well coordinated (played competitive badminton - a tennis-like racket sport that, like tennis, can be played 1:1 or 2:2; requires speed of reaction, jumpiness, and a whole host of other things but not that much strength). Played competitive basketball for his college (so, high enough level). Eventually stopped since the coach required ALL of his time - he struggled with keeping up with the academic assignments. So he stopped. Now he wants to train for a marathon. He has the right kind of legs - very skinny. To your point about developing whatever the right muscles are per sport - to the best of my, admittedly lay, understanding, no. Say, my son, after several years of playing basketball, still does not have a body of a typical basketball player. He still has a body of a marathon runner...

My younger daughter is doing competitive gymnastics (3 hour training sessions 4-5 times a week). She has the right body for that: very short, muscular, and flexible. Her legs are not long, but are perfectly shaped. She was always the shortest white kid in her classroom (of course, some Vietnamese girls were shorter, but that is genetics). Her muscles did get stronger and more defined through her training, but it is not that she was not muscular before she started. The sports just developed and added to her inherently strong musculature. Her older sister is tall and skinny and has the same kind of legs as my son - skinny. I remember somebody wrote it about Julia Roberts' legs - that they are simply long and skinny. Same for my older daughter - her legs are simply long and skinny, but not outrageously shapely. Legs that are outrageously shapely are so shapely thanks to the underlying muscle structure. So, if you do not have the underlying muscle structure, there is not that much you can do. If my older daughter takes gymnastics (she does not want to because she is too lazy for that; plus, she is too tall), she still would not get her younger sister's legs. She would never get her younger sister's legs because she simply has a different build.

genetics genetics genetics

genetics genetics genetics

It is a big similar with weight - the society believes that you can control weight, by and large. Well, not quite, and, in part, it is because of genetics genetics genetics.

So, with sports, what is probably happening is that people SELF-SELECT into what they are good at. Short muscular girls self-select into gymnastics because they are good at it from the start. Skinny boys with good endurance self-select in long-distance running. People with superior coordination (they are Chinese, usually) self-select into ping-ping (table tennis).

And then, once people find a sport that is right for them because their bodies are naturally good at that sport, they improve and refine what they got in the first place (genetically).

This is true. Ive dated girls that spend hours doing their hair and makeup and picking out clothes, and they usually arnt super interesting people. At least, not to me. I dont think pop culture, magazines, clothes, makeup etc is really interesting in general.

Costume jewelry? What the hell is that? Like fake pearls and cheesy green gems? That doesnt sound professional at all.
My mom is huge on judging on appearance. When she was picking out therapists for me, we went to meet so many people. She would look them up and down and, even if they were nice and seemed to be good therapists, if they were wearing the 'wrong thing' or had the 'wrong look' she dumped them. I think you can tell about personality via appearance but not that much. It was ****ing insane.
I do use makeup and clothes to put people into categories though.

Isnt online dating a little weird? At least at first? It kind of seems like flipping through a magazine of people to me haha.

Huh. Ive never heard of any of this. I guess i though people could be good at basically whatever they wanted. Guess not haha.

I agree about it all being genetics. I've never heard the term "twitch" but I do know what you're talking about. Typically runners, basketball, tennis players, anything that requires a lot of endurance have a completely different type of muscle than body builders, power lifters, gymnists, football or baseball players would have which require a lot of explosive strength. As a rule of thumb, you can often tell by the shape of the muscle. Typically endurance muscles are somewhat short, narrow and have a longer tendon. While not particularly strong, they can go all day. Explosive muscles tend to be longer, wider and have shorter tendons. In other words they seem to stretch all the way to the joint. They're not as fast and don't have the endurance to run distances, but they can run sprints pushing a truck. Its not impossible for someone to do both, but they will always excel at the one best suited for their muscle type. But it really does always come down to genetics.

That probably a lot more info than you wanted. Please excuse.