Getting real tired of gender assumptions.

I am a queer person. I do not fit into either of the two binary genders. I am a mix of both or neither. (protip; do not educate me on the impossibilities of gender and how it is connected to sex you'd be arguing with a senior biology student who excels in genetics). I never correct people when they use pronouns for me that are not my pronouns. For the first few months I was here, I used a male musician as my avatar (was not pretending to be him I had stated many times it was a musician in a band I adore) and most people ASSUMED I was male.

Last night I changed my avatar/signature to a female musician I happen to be enjoying at the moment. And over night I have become an ASSUMED female. Just because of an icon and a signature that features a cis-gendered female.

I am tired of people assuming gender. I am tired of people assuming it is okay to throw he and she and even they around without ASKING what preferred pronouns are. Mine are them/their/they're's. It's simple to ask. Using me as an example; "Teen Idle, what are your pronouns?". That way you can avoid triggering someone. It's not hard, it's just not a habit people seem to get into because they do not know about it.

That is all.

well, the obvious solution is to inform people upfront and not wait for them to ask you questions - I see that you did this by stating "Teen Idle I am not a he or a she.".

Hopefully your correspondents on this site will heed the warning and ask you questions.
My signature says that I am a female who is 42 years old. Even then, somebody once called me "Mister Hamster", which was funny (and no, I did not correct the person, because my gender was irrelevant to the nature of his post on relationships and communication, so it did not matter whether he got my gender right).

What you are, essentially, saying is that people should by default ask you for your preferred pronouns. I think this is not the way to go - it would create way too much work for a long list of people.

Using project management lingo: If a problem can be solved "upstream" rather than "downstream", then it should be solved "upstream".

Using plain English: nip the problem in the bud by putting how you want to be referred out in public view (which you did).

I hope that now that you have become pro-active about your preferred pronouns, people won't bother you with their assumptions.

Just to complete this exercise, you should, probably, state, preemptively, that your preferred pronouns are "theirs", etc. From your current status, it is clear that you do not like "he" or "she", but not clear that you like "they".

PS users on this site can disable signatures of others, but not the status.

... it would be too hard to ask not just ME, but OTHERS, what what I am and what pronouns I use? It seems like you're underestimating the ability and capability of the human mind. With that idealization, we may as well not ask what each others names are. Has that been difficult for you here on the forums? Or even in person during introductions?

I shouldn't have to "state" anything to be respected. I shouldn't have to "state" what I am and not for the comfort of others. I was merely pointing out that this is a habit people should get themselves into as it can cause dysphoria in genderqueer/trans* people.

Teen Idle: look, it is not difficult for me to state that I am a female, so I cannot see why this is so difficult for you. It takes about 5 seconds total. You wrote that we might not ask people what their names are - on here, people have usernames, so you do not have to ask them what their names are - their names are stated upfront. I also know people who have an interesting userid and a really common "real name" they sign their posts with - such as "Christina". So the analogy with names is not fitting.

You are making a judgment when you say that people's gender assumption are their way of disrespecting you. I can see how being in such a small minority would make you hyper-vigilant to being disrespected, though, but trust me - people do not actively want to disrespect you - they are simply using shortcuts.

By the way, one way of respecting people is, simply, supplying them with the information they need to treat you the way you want to be treated. In your case, what is important to you is that you not be called "he" or "she", and, that your choice of avatars not be interpreted to mean that you are of the same gender as the person in your avatar. OK, do people a favor by stating it in the open. It is not that much work - quite on the contrary.

I personally was taught very early on that it is impolite to refer to anybody with a "he" or "she" if the person is in the room, and, that one should use the person's name when referring to that person in their presence, so I have adapted that rule of basic politeness 101 to online behavior by referring to people's userids rather than substituting with the pronouns. Pronouns, as I am sure you are well aware of given your level of academic achievement per OP, are used in-place-of-nouns, hence they are called pro-nouns. The simplest way to avoid using pro-nouns is by using nouns (in this case, userids). It is much simpler and much more polite than referring to people with "their". So this is what I do, unless the gender of the poster is crystal-clear from their own writing and I want to sprinkle a few pronouns on my post to avoid saying ABC ABC ABC again and again which gets annoyingly repetitive.

By the way, your choice of userid incorporates your age - if you plan to stay on the site for a long time, you may find yourself outgrowing your userid. If you plan to stay for a short while, then there is no issue.

This would have been a better place to write that you want to be referred to in the plural (they, them) instead of saying what you do not want. Please note that unless you are actually several people sharing one username, this is incorrect grammar and most people will not default to it on their own.

It wouldn't occur to most people to ask, especially when you have an avatar that would seem to provide the answer.

I'm a billionaire trapped in a poor mans body!

Please do not tell me to "look" as I am reading your replies, and I don't need prompts to make me pay attention or get me to change my mind. I am well aware that saying "these are my pronouns" is simple. What you are not aware of that when I do explain my gender/lack there of and my pronouns, I am asked in chat "well, don't you have a penis?" and "Don't you LIKE being a girl, though?" When no one has any idea what I am or what I am not. And apparently, this is completely polite as no one stepped in to help me. The only one who did was someone who PMed me the same day and apologized for their FRIENDS behavior.

So yes, what is simple mathematics for you isn't so simple for me or people like me. I am told they, them, they're's is not appropriate pronouns (though they have been used forever, like in Shakespeare plays). I am told I am an impossibility, I need to be one or the other. Better still; I get told what to do by people who identify in the gender binary. Like right now.

All I was stating was that it is a bit ridiculous for anyone to assume gender based on icons and usernames. That is like me assuming your name because of your username. It's ridiculous, base, and annoying. And yet again, me, the ~weird~ one, has to educate people because apparently it is beyond them. Though I never find it difficult to ask "what are the pronouns you use?" As you said, it only takes a few moments.

As for my username; it's a song and a pun and has nothing to do with my age what so ever. My age is clearly stated in my profile.

Really?

Thanks, guys. This is why I never bring it up. It's always a mockery and a joke. Glad you got a laugh out of my difficulties. Glad I'm on a site that says it embraces everyone yet jokes can be made at a minorities expense.

Thanks a lot.

I am sorry, but I do not understand what it is that you called "idealization". Is the underestimating an idealization? Not clear to me...

... I have just checked and I have 78 friends, probably 70 via incoming requests and 8 via outgoing requests, and I do not know the gender of some of them and do know the gender of others. It does not matter that much to me. Nobody out of those people whose gender I do not know has ever expressed dissatisfaction with the fact that I have not asked them for their preferred pronouns. Either neither of those 78 folks are gender-queer, or, they are simply OK with my not knowing their preferred pronoun. Since there are no reliable stats on what percentage of the population is gender-queer, it is hard to make any conclusions.

I think that what is going on on the most general level is your expressing how hard it is to be in a small minority. That I am sure is true and, I am sure, those people who "disrespected" you by using unwelcome pronouns when referring to you would also agree that it is hard being in a small minority. To expect all of them to ask every person what their pronouns of choice are still seems to be a completely unnecessary shift of responsibility and a completely unnecessary increase in the level of effort (think of the 5 seconds it would take you to announce your preferences to the world VS the effort it would take each of your correspondents to ask you for your preferences).

I can tell you my stats: in 23 months that I have been on here with an animal userid and an animal avatar, and, with the gender stated in the signature, there was a total of one (1) occasion of my being called a Mister.

I was merely trying to inject a little humor in the discussion. I meant no disrespect, sorry u were not amused.

most people would believe that you are a teen, because most people would make an assumption that your userid - which you chose intentionally - has to do with your age.

So I visited your profile, see that you are 23, and can tell you that the line in which you say that you are not a HE or a SHE is displayed on some kind of a background which resembles a colorful upholstery fabric, and the font's color is such that the line is completely illegible - I had to select it with the cursor to be able to read it. So the most obvious step towards being called "they" is to make the line legible.

I am curious to learn of the quotes from Shakespeare that use "theirs". Nothing comes to mind from my memory, but I did not read enough of his works. This is a well-known mockery sonnet of his that only uses the female pronouns.

SONNET 130

My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red than her lips' red;
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.
I have seen roses damask'd, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound;
I grant I never saw a goddess go;
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground:
And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare.

I really don't know what to say, but thank you for triggering me along with IndieVisible. I should be ashamed to have wanted some decent amount of respect. I will from now on post every where what my pronouns are and then get into discussions like this where I, the minority (of course) is wrong and everyone else is right.

Actually, no one has assumed my age. People have ASKED. Quite ground breaking, I know.

"Humor" involving trans* people is never funny or appreciated. Especially in a thread where the said person is feeling backed into a corner. Thank you.

This is a mental health forum, no one cares if your a boy or a girl or what your sexuality is or is not. Nor does too many people really care who is right or wrong. Stop looking for disagreement where there is none. We all every one of us are here for one reason or another and it's certainly not to pick on each other.

I spare no one, I am a equal opportunity abuser

(that's more humor in case u didn't know)

I agree - it seems that you are provoking gender assumptions via intentional use of gendered images in the avatar, and then recoil when such assumptions are actually made. There are many avatar choices that do not involve gendered images.

Inedible and I suggested that you state your preference for plural pronouns clearly and conspicuously, in two places - the status and the profile. We did not suggest that you insert anything in every post of yours. The status is inserted automatically. As I said already, it would take you 5 seconds tops.

You are being quite intentional in twisting what was suggested by Inedible and me. That intentional twisting is along the lines of provoking people. So I will not post on your threads any more since there is nothing else I can tell you. I do have sympathy for your being part of a small minority for which the language itself does not have enough tools of recognition (as Inedible pointed out, the use of the plural pronouns in reference to an individual, though commonplace, is still grammatically wrong). I do have sympathy for that. But not for provocations.

You don't realize that the people who assumed your age did so without asking? That their assumptions are invisible to you, for the most part? If 10 folks asked and 99 folks assumed, the only visible part is that 10 folks asked.

Oh, you have found me out! I am indeed PROVOKING gender assumptions via use of a useless avatar. You do realize how transphobic you are being, correct? You have ticked just about every box in the "this is what cis-people will tell you when you say you aren't cis". Yes, I am provoking people to use the wrong pronouns because I am showcasing a musician I enjoy. This is all my doing, and I asked for it, right? I am ASSUMING that is going to be your next statement, since everyone else is assuming, may as well join in.

So from now on I will assume that you are not female, that you are an animal. And because of this I will question you constantly. And because of this, I will make you feel small and invalid. Because it's okay to do so if someone is different. It is okay to make assumptions based on images rather than using your intellect to come to a much more constructive realization that you MAY be wrong.

IndieVisible, as you can see, we are in the "sexual and gender issues" forum. Therefore, me posting and venting here is completely fitting.

As for the singular "they" here are many examples.
AUE: FAQ excerpt: Gender-neutral pronouns
http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html
http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/sgtheirl.html
http://motivatedgrammar.wordpress.co...y-its-correct/

And since I am provoking you all so terribly, note that my avatar and signature are gone. I hope this eases your difficulties as the majority.

your 20 years old, in 10 years you will prolly be married and have kids and forget about this discussion. Why are u making it so serious? People here do not care who/what you are. Stop looking for things to argue about and try to enjoy life a little bit. I don't care if your asexual, bisexual, gay, str8, trans, or even a android. I don't care. I think most people here don't care. You are among friends here! Don't u get that?

This is an anonymous forum for people with mental health issues. My gender and orientation has been questioned too because of the avatars I use and the posts I post. My current avatar is of two men kissing. Does that make me a gay male? No. People refer me as he or she, I gladly inform them of my identity.

We don't care what sex you are or are not. Most of us do not understand the concept of "he, she, it" and genderqueer, genderfluid, etc. It's one thing to be in person and asking what you preferred to be called, but when you're anonymous, nobody is going to know that you're not a sex or are multiple sexes or a cat or a moose. How are we supposed to know?

None of us here are making fun of you. This is a support group. None of us are attacking you, you were upset to begin with and are only aggravating yourself when nobody understands what it's like to be in your situation.

It's hard enough to be gay. To be no sex or more than one sex, it's a bit mind-blowing. I don't understand it, but it doesn't mean I don't think it isn't possible (not sure how many double negatives are in there). You can't expect everyone to know how to respond to that in the way you'd like, and it's not because we're stupid or we're mean, we just don't understand. Instead of thinking everyone here is trying to insult you, clarify first how you'd like us to treat you, because we are supportive here. That's a pretty big expectation to assume an entire group knows who is gay or genderqueer and who needs to be called he or she--because there are lots of members on this form that I have NO idea who is a boy or girl, straight or gay, young or old!

I'd recommend making this into a positive thing. Make a thread specifically for genderqueer, genderfluid, gender roles, etc. and just explain what they are, because I have no idea what they mean and they all mean something different and I'm sure many other people don't know what they are either.

Now that's a great idea! Educate us.