My boyfriend has sex with his own mother... GSA

Oh wait so you're not even married? I didn't realize you've only been together 9 months.

I would say kudos to you for trying to be understanding and sympathetic towards his situation but this is the kind of issue that destroys even the most devoted and long standing relationships. Such a serious problem as this is absolutely no foundation on which to lay the beginnings of a happy and fulfilling relationship. You deserve a lot, lot more. Serious deception and incest are not the sort of thing we expect from a relationship not even a year in the making.

Please leave this man to his problems - colluding in them could make it a lot worse and damage you in the process. If you don't have any kind of commitment tying you to this person then i reiterate getting out now before things become more complicated.

The reality that if a child is conceived it could resemble something that looks like a character " From the hills have eyes". Of course, that's not always the case. Rumours that serial killer Ted Bundy's grandfather was also his father because he had sex with Bundy's mother. But we all know it didn't turn out well for him but it weren't his appearance that was the problem.

Saying that, we must be all inbred if you think about it.

But not recently.

I would never be able to sleep with a man again if I knew he had been going at it with HIS MOTHER... It is just WRONG. This is a taboo that is actually there for a reason, unlike many others (like interracial or same-sex before, cousins still) because it is mentally damaging and it also affects any offspring. Now, if he is in his 40s his mom is clearly too old to have more children, but it is still wrong. None of them are sex offenders, they are only hurting each other, but it should stop. If he doesn't realize it, he needs serious help.

No, it is not - it is unhealthy only when practiced in large close-knit groups because it leads to genetic disorders from inbreeding. That harm usually builds up / accumulates over centuries. But it is not set in stone and there is incest in the bible etc. - the taboo is not biological in nature.

My late mom was a passionate dog person, but she only had an affinity to mongrels while finding purebred dogs despicable due to their stupidity. It turns out that she was right - genetic diversity is a good thing (mongrels manifest genetic diversity).

But in this case, the bf is an adult man who is successful in major areas of living and who is having non-procreative sex with his biological mother who did not raise him, is not an authority figure vis-a-vis him, and is using sex out of her desperate fear of abandonment. Plus, he uses OP's pictures while his mother is pleasuring him, and, wants OP present (perhaps mother knows about that desire of his). So in essence there is a web - a family structure, however unusual.

The therapeutic approach called "family systems" seems to be the answer here, and within that approach, practitioners probably are well aware of GSA it is the first time I hear of GSA and I assume that most lay people have not heard about it).

A "family systems" therapist who could see all three of you together would probably be best. Maybe if the mother gets some reassurance that sans sex her biological son and his gf would still keep her in their lives would release her from the fear of abandonment that fuels her instigating the son's desire.

I think that a family systems approach is admittedly daring and demanding, but it would be far, far quicker to yield results than individual therapy for him. If he is in individual therapy, his mother would be hell bent on undermining its results. If the therapy is joint and the mother gets to have positive reinforcement for not instigating him - say, OP+bf+his mom go see a movie together - then perhaps she at least would not be undermining but neutral with respect to therapy.

I agree with OP that the issue seems to be extremely narrow and that there is little reason to suspect that this man would cross other societal boundaries, especially given that he is over 40, has had several LT r/s, is well loved by the adoptive family, etc.

It depends on your personal lineage. The Quebecois are far more inbred than the residents of English-speaking provinces in Canada, e.g.

I disagree with just about everything you've said.

I really think you need to take yourself away from this man and seek your own help! please don't take this the wrong way, but either he has somehow trapped and brainwashed you in his little perverted world or you have issues of your own.. possibly both!

Please step back, take some time away from him and really think about what you are doing...some of your statements and acceptance of his behaviour is not from a healthy mind!

That is fine - my response was informed by knowledge of therapeutic approaches and knowledge of world history, so it was well thought through. The idea of the support forum is to help support the OP. A lot of people voiced that she'd be better off without this man. This reaction is understandable, but it trivializes the OP's predicament - surely she could on her own come up with "Since I have only been with the bf for 9 months, it is easier to reject him and move on than to persevere and look for a solution." So "just move on" is something OP must have considered already, and decided not to choose. That brought her to the forum - looking for ideas. So I think we should give her ideas rather than just spill out personal bias. Plus, since the mother did not raise the child at all - the OP was very clear on that and even put GSA in the title - I do not see why people react so strongly to the situation. She is not the woman who changed his diapers, took him to kindergarten and quietly wiped her tears, fed him, chaperoned him on school trips, kissed his boo-boos when he would scrap his knees, implored him to keep his room tidy, dealt with carpools etc. She simply gave birth to him, but did not raise him. And they are not producing genetically compromised babies. So the many reactions of the people on this thread - such as yours - are based on calling his biological parent a Mother - that triggers the reaction. She is not his Mother - she is his biological parent. He has a Mother - his adoptive parent. Does he have sex with his adoptive Mother (who was the one changing diapers and chaperoning trips)? No, he does not. So he is not crossing any societal boundaries, loosely understood as ethical boundaries, because the societal boundary involves Mothers/Fathers, not biological parents. The distinction is critical.

I am not sure, but I would not be surprised if some of the reaction comes from a taboo associated with men having sex with women who are much older. There is no taboo on the reverse situation, gender-wise - women have sex with men older than their parents a lot, but for men, it is unusual. So a bias against "younger man, older woman" maybe a subconscious undercurrent among the many responses on this thread. So let me ask you this question: are you CERTAIN that you have absolutely no hangups about r/s across age groups in which the man is younger, and that you would not have any objections to this man's having sex with a woman in her 60s to whom he had no genetic ties? Are you absolutely, 150% sure that you are reacting specifically to the biological ties and not to the fact that an older woman is pleasuring a much younger man? If the answer is "yes, I am certain", the next question is - would you be able to identify a very strongly held bias if the bias were on a visceral level, ie. you never gave the bias any deliberate thought? Because, you know, some people simply cringe at the mere thought of a 60+ year old woman having ANY kind of sex.

What would you say to those two questions?

***

Going back far in history, we ultimately owe the English alphabet to the Ancient Egyptians, and in the upper classes of Ancient Egypt incest was common, so there is at least some case for looking at this issue with sober, neutral, calm eyes and not just reacting out of a vague "this is an ultimate taboo" place.

Can you state your questions in short form please?

To make this ok for whatever reason is not ok in my books, I don't care about her being an older woman and all that garbage. Ok so if he does have this illness, how do you explain his wanting his gf to witness the act? It all points to one thing, he gets off on things that are wrong. I find it disturbing someone is trying to make obvious sickness ok because there is a name for it, history of it and some kind of therapeutic approach to deal with it...so what? IT IS STILL WRONG and the OP is going to get hurt somewhere down the line. I may not have sophisticated knowledge of the illness or its history etc but I do know right from wrong..and what he is doing and trying to involve the op in is wrong on so many levels.

It's absolutely wrong and I despise moral relativism. Even when it's masquerading as psychology.

I think it's important to remember that it is the OP who is struggling to make sense of this situation - our opinions and psychological explanations won't mean much in the grander scheme of things; they're dealing with the reality as it stands and the reality is that this is still not a widely practised activity and with pretty good reason.

I think the situation would be open to further discussion if the boyfriend had been honest about this from the start - if he'd said; look this is the situation, I know it's not healthy but I value out relationship enough to be honest and I hope that with your help things can change.

But none of that has happened - instead, the boyfriend has lied about his intentions and placed a demand on someone that they in turn can't oblige due to their own integrity.

The goal is to advise the possible outcomes - given the facts presented to us by the OP this seems a mainly non negotiable situation; she either tries to convince someone of actions they don't wish to change, or she goes along with something she isn't comfortable with at the expense of her own physical and psychological safety. Neither of which, are advisable.

Tangled, sometimes conversations get lost in the weeds around here. That's totally normal as people express their differing opinions. I've made my opinion clear. Run for your life. If you disagree because you love the guy deeply, then I may not have anything else to say that wouldn't be redundant.

But I would like to address the issue of family therapy before I go.

I happen to be a fan of various types of family systems therapy. But, as afar as I can see, Tangled, you're not in a family here. You don't know the mother. You have no relationship with her. BF is not a life partner or husband. This doesn't look like a family to me. So the most important question is: Does it look and feel like a family to you?

In my opinion, participating in family therapy with the mother would only enmesh your further in the poor woman's serious disturbances and behavior problems.

I personally would not consider having family therapy with my BF's mistress just because they were related biologically. And I wouldn't make her abandonment issues my problem or want to make her a part of my family. Their relationship is sexual. I wouldn't want to have therapy with my short-term BF's long-term mistress under any circumstances.

If my BF was gazing at my photo while he was getting sucked off by his mistress and if he asked me to watch it happen in order to increase his pleasure, my first thought would not be about his mistresses abandonment issues.

In a different situation, where a family actually existed, family therapy would make sense.

Those family relationships do not exist here, as far as I can see. The bio mother is not the person who raised him, changed his diapers and rocked him to sleep. She's basically his mistress or his favorite *****.

Tangled, do you feel as if your BF's mom/mistress is part of your family? If you don't, I strongly suggest you don't bring her into your own circle of close family and friends. You have no responsibility to her. None.

Take Care.

Hamster-Bamster, I doubt that the biological mother is just a stranger to him. He was adopted. He probably had preconceived ideas about her before they met. He may have felt abandoned and wanted to punish her. OP did say that she had the impression that he was using his mother sexually as punishment for abandoning him and was rougher with her than he would be with OP. I think this line of thought should be given more credit. From what OP has said, the mother may not just be a biological parent to her bf but a mother who gave him up with all the emotional and psychological entanglements that have accumulated over his 40+ years of life. I don't think she's just a biological parent to him. Would he have this kind of relationship with a random woman he met on the street? Probably not. The facts that she is his biological mother and someone who gave him up for adoption mean something to him. That is what makes the relationship psychologically unhealthy and incestuous.

>>... and in the upper classes of Ancient Egypt incest was common, so there is at least some case for looking at this issue with sober, neutral, calm eyes and not just reacting out of a vague "this is an ultimate taboo" place. <<

Incest being common in the upper class did not make it good. Obviously that practice fell out of favor for a reason.

They still cannibalize, etc in other parts of the world. Doesn't make it right. It's like saying, Robin killed himself so it's fine if I do too. Or worse.

Oh Nevermind. I know what I know and it sickens me that anyone would make excuses for this.

He's clearly ill, and has a lot of issues that he needs to work through.

That said, if my mother were ten years younger... who knows

Right, but that's just evolutionary biology, which does not apply if there is no conception.

I don't think the point here is that the affair is with his mother-- or whether that is inherently right or wrong. The point here is that your boyfriend has been cheating on you for months, exposing you to possible STDs, lying to you, and disrespecting you. He only told you because he wanted to get you involved in a threesome. I think the biggest issue here is why that was something you were willing to accept? Why was that not an immediate deal-breaker? I think that means you are also may benefit from some self-reflection and counseling. Anyone deserves to be treated better than that.

As for GSA, I am very familiar with the concept (from an academic perspective; not a personal one). I think the problem in your boyfriend's case is not that he has these feelings-- but that he chose to act on them in the way that he did. Rather than seeking counseling to work through his feelings-- or even entering into a loving and truthful relationship with his mother-- he chose to act out in a destructive way, lie to his sexual partners, etc.

Clearly, there are some self-esteem issues here on both ends. I think each of you probably need individual therapy to figure out what is best for each of you, separately.

So we've got one BF who's screwing his own mother, another who's into rape porn.

We just need a " My Boyfriend's a goat ****er " thread.

And before any of you's judge, as long as the goat consents, I don't see a problem with it.

Lycanthrope, you goofball!

I didn't read all of the responses.

NO. NO no no no no.

Go. Just get out.

I don't care who argues what about morals or mores or ethics.....

GET OUT EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.

ETA: My answer is based solely on the OP's question.... TONS of red flags pop up for me. I feel that he might have an agenda. I feel that he knows what he's doing. I feel as if he's dragging you into something....I don't know what and it may just be that needs help. Or maybe something else.... But so far, he's a liar and a cheat. Aren't you worth more?

Me. I do, IT.
It is wrong to have sex with one's mother.

Good God in heaven WTF?!?!?

A stepmother's fair game though. As long as she isn't too old.