Thoughts on pornography...?

Mandyfins! No need to apologize. I think the discussion is all good!

I believe that woman and men equally have the ability to change the way things are...women have been heard throughout the decades and many things have change some for the good and some for the not so good

so to stay on topic of pornography...

Men need to stop buy, viewing, or however acquiring pornographic materal and convincing women it doesn't hurt anyone it's just money...women need to stop letting themselves being filmed or photographed in this matter and dress more modestly...

As I mentioned before thousands of web sites with thousands of women on each site...even some of the sites are established or appear to be established by the women themselves and have their own website in their name...UGH!

Mandy i think that i might have been unfair to you im sorry...you were just stating your opinion and not trying to impose it on anyone. Mea culpa please forgive me. Your opinion is just as important as mine

Now on the subject of clothes and modesty, I just cant believe how some parents let their kids, especially girls go out of the house dressed. Its a battle that i fight here with my own. Her friends wear tight pants with writing all over the butt, short short shorts and skirts and the shirts that show the whole stomach. Shes only ten years old and these are her friends. The boys on the other hand now go into the pool swimming fully dressed with shirts and street shorts which are rather long...go figure..haha.......I dont see where allowing young girls to go out dressed like that can lead to any good. Off topic but responding to direction. Actually i find myself in the strange position of defending people who watch porn when i myself done. I guess the reason is because i despise censorship.

Joe I could not agree more. then parents get on talk shows about how sluty their daughters dress! well duh don't buy them for the kids!

What came first; porn or sexual drive?

Just saying that porn is a product of our desires and fantasies. It's not like porn is an evil thing that came out of nowhere to cause suffering upon humanity :-P

I do agree that it does sometimes degrade men/women.

I don't think pornography has anything to do with people committing crimes. Maybe if someone is a criminal (or mentally ill) already, porn can influence them in a negative way, but I don't think your average man down the street watching it is suddenly going to become a serial killer or rapist. You can say there are statistics about men in prison, but for those to be accurate, you have to question "normal" people who are porn watchers, etc. That's the problem with a lot of studies on crime. They sample the prison population but not the general population.

I don't think anyone is evil simply for watching porn.

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asylumgardens said:
I don't think pornography has anything to do with people committing crimes. Maybe if someone is a criminal (or mentally ill) already, porn can influence them in a negative way, but I don't think your average man down the street watching it is suddenly going to become a serial killer or rapist.

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I care to differ here....... for as a child I was sexually abused in unspeakable sick ways due to what the men had watched and saw in porn (mags & movies).

and - NO! - neither the 16 nor 19 year old male was mentally ill or a criminal when they abused me - but they look at porn and practiced what they viewed with their eyes on me (an innocent child that just happened's to be a female).

Now let us talk about one of the three grown men - that later admitted that he sexually abused me for he was stirred by what his eyes saw in porn (and) that a lot of what he did to me was influenced porn - that which his mind lusted over and that he felt he had to have / do..

IMO _ I HATE PORN _ ALL KINDS..... Soft or Hardcore.

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heyjoe said:

I find the statement "reveals the evil in men" to be quite telling.
Do you really think that men are more evil than women?

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From My Side of the Fence............. My Opinion

I would have to answer YES................ (and) say that - - History Speaks for its SELF.

but - I do give you the fact that the percentage of evil females are rising........ but never the less - MALES still WIN!

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heyjoe said:
i know im going to get blasted for this so after i post im heading to the root celler,

but being 50 years old i have noticed that women have in the last few decades been determined to acquire the worst habits of men, such as being crass, being overly aggressive, smoking cigars and im really gonna get it for this...tattoos.

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I agree..................................

Maybe the FEMALES should have been the TEACHERS in the old days...
then the MALES would be following after us and not vice versa here - lol lol lol.

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fayerody said:
i don't understand about "soft" porn? what is the difference in the two?

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SOFT PORN is like........

1.) An intimate romance movie where the men & women are naked, but they are madly in love with a lot of caring & affection being shown between them during the sex scenes.

2.) Still Images of Naked People....... like you might see in older tasteful art - that which what Playboy claims to be.

...basically - naked sexual stirring with out the smut and sexual sickness being displayed.

I cant believe what I am reading, porn makes malesters and rapists, and child pedafiels. NO it doesnt, porn does not make people doe things, people make their own decisions. I am an gay, intraverted, video game player who doesnt leave my house. Saying that porn gives people the idea to rape, is like me saying I killed my neighbor because I play Mortal Kombat. The evil in this world is not directly related to a woman lying flat on her back getting paid to have sex with 5 guys. Evil comes from evil people and I am sorry but two people having sex for money is not evil, but its not art either.

i don't think that the people who make and view porn are evil. but then i don't believe in evil. certain actions can be classified as helpful / harmful to oneself and others, however.

i don't think that it is inevitable that viewing violence will cause a person to violently offend.
but i do think that it is possible that viewing violence could make it more likely that a person will violently offend.
i don't think that violent offences would stop completely if society stopped condoning violent tv, sports, pictures, video games etc
i do think that violent offences would reduce in number if society stopped condoning violent tv, sports, pictures, video games etc.

i appreciate that not all porn is violent but i do think that a lot of porn has violent themes of domination and submission. police officers and teachers and stepfathers and the like... abuse of power seems to be a common theme.

it is possible that someone who responds sexually to the naked form (and who doesn't find violence sexually stimulating) can train themselves (either intentionally or unintentionally) to sexually respond to violence by repeatedly pairing the naked form and sexual response together with violent themes. i think that a lot of porn functions to do this...

but not all porn is violent to be sure.

it concerns me greatly that the majority of women who pose in porn were sexually abused as kids. while some women say that it was their free choice to participate and that they get a sense of control out of it (they are being paid this time after all) one might be led to wonder just how free that choice is and whether their posing is a form of repetition compulsion.

i don't know whether this question has been asked but i wonder whether the majority of men who pose in porn were also sexually abused as kids. whether they are attempting to assert their masculinity in a caricatured fashion because they felt like it had been so completely undermined in the past... another form of repetition compulsion or possibly identification with the agressor / abuser.

i feel sad that people make such things...
and i feel sad that there is such a market for it...

i think it reveals something of the sickness of society that it is as condoned as it is.

i feel very sad indeed.

" i do think that it is possible that viewing violence could make it more likely that a person will violently offend.

i don't think that violent offences would stop completely if society stopped condoning violent tv, sports, pictures, video games etc.

i do think that violent offences would reduce in number if society stopped condoning violent tv, sports, pictures, video games etc."

I Agree...equate it to the billions spent on advertising...The dollar figure is staggering regarding 30 seconds to convince us to take certain actions...buy now...you need firm whatever...etc...etc...anyone who thinks that viewing TV doesn't produce some kind of effect on people...probably should let the billion dollar advertisers know they are wasting all that money...

From Dr Clay's book: "Anger plays a role in impotence, frigidity, and pornography. Research has shown that watching more physically aggressive porno films increases the aggressiveness in males (Byrne & Kelley, 1981). http://www.psychologicalselfhelp.org.../chap7_18.html

The above study was done prior to the allowed increase by the FTC in sexual acts and violence shown on tv. (That includes the changing of the sacred hours of family time once kept free from such material.)

BTW, the next part of that link covers "evil." It will be covered/posted in the anger and aggression thread in self-help soon.

joe, how do you know that the first tatto was on a man?

From what I have read to date, a lot of you out there equate porn, both hard and soft core, in both magazines and films, has something evil and only watched by perverts or violent sex offenders to be avoided at all costs, I beg to differ,

You don’t have to be a violent person to watch porn, if you see something you would like to try and it’s with consenting adults, or even at home by yourself alone, then where’s the harm?

YOU chose the type of porn you watch,
YOU go out and purchase the films, books, magazines, imitation latex body parts, toys, pumps, Lycra, leather goods, pink fluffy handcuffs; ECT the list goes on…

All relating to your own and / or your partners sexual desires, not all of them are bad, sick or degrading, and not all of us are violent sexual predators that blame porn usage for our actions,

Why hasn’t a mainstream study, on the many different types of people that do watch porn, been done?

Why is it we start with violent sex offenders and work backwards when we talk about porn usage?

Its time to cut threw all the crap relating to porn use has I see it personally, and see it for what it really is, a form of escape, a sexual release, curiosity, experimentation, call it whatever you want, if it was not threw the things I have just mentioned, we would all still be doing it in the missionary position

I really hesitated in posting what I'm about to post. Its quite personal to share, but I really wanted to weigh in here.

I'm not a huge fan of the way sex is portrayed in porn films. Its just so rough, and it seems like the women aren't enjoying it. But....to each their own. And I admit, I watch it from time to time.

An ex left 2 porns at my apartment when we split and I still have them. I admit, sometimes I pop them in, when I'm by myself, just to get myself a little excited. I fast forward to the parts that aren't disgusting....the one's I have don't show violent sex.....one is a spoof of the Adam's family, and one is just a bunch of people having sex outdoors. Most of it doesn't appeal to me, namely the intercourse scenes. It just doesn't look appealing lol. But some of it is a little more sensual and those are the scenes I watch sometimes.

I also used to watch it every once and awhile with the ex, to spice things up a bit. He also had a Kama Sutra dvd that had actual couples demonstrating different positions. That one was good.

So thats where I'm at on a personal level with it. The other night on HBO, my boyfriend was flipping and we came across a show about porn stars getting ready for their annual Emmy awards. It was pretty crazy, watching the interviews with these people. They genuinly seemed to enjoy what they do....they even have a huge awards ceremony. The women talked about the "rules" they have. They all said they have a choice of who they work with and what they're willing to do. Now I'm sure these people are in the "higher end" movies. I'm sure there are a ton of porn companies out there who don't treat their employees well, just like in any industry. But in this case, all the actors and actresses really seemed to enjoy what they do, and take precautions and stuff. I'm sure a lot of them are simply in it for the money. Its a huge money making industry. Lots of people do crazy things for money.

I'm not getting in on the debate here, I'm just not much of a debator. But I wanted to share that I'm a normal 28 year old female who is not violent, was never abused, has never abused, never has thoughts of abusing, and I watch porn every now and again......

There are porn addicts just like there's addicts for just about anything, alcohol addicts, drug addicts, video game addicts, shopping addicts, internet addicts, the list goes on. I think its when the addiction comes in, that it becomes a problem.

My thoughts on pornography? I don't like most of it. But I do like the excitment it brings sometimes. Do I think its degrading of women and of men? Some of it yes. Do I think it could be made more tastefully? Yes. Do I think it will ever go away? Uh, no. Sex sells. Unfortunately there are shady porn makers just like there are shady people in every industry. Its hard to lump it all together as an entire industry being shady. In my opinion, I don't think the industry as a whole is shady.

Don't know why I felt the need to post on this, at first I really wasn't going to. Sexual behaviors is a very personal topic. But I discuss every other personal topic so why not this one as well.

Anyway, thats it.

Oh and a reminder for this thread, when replying, reply to user and add the trigger icon to each thread. The trigger icon can't be added in a quick reply.

That way, those who will be harmed by this thread will hopefully use their self protection tools and not read.

Thanks,

Rayna

From what I have read to date, a lot of you out there equate porn, both hard and soft core, in both magazines and films, has something evil //// if you are using the defination I clarified previously then yes

and only watched by perverts or violent sex offenders to be avoided at all costs, I beg to differ, /// As previous posted about me and my struggle ... I do not consider myself a pervert...but looking back I wish I would I would not been exposed to it...I know my situation is a bit different then the adult at age 18 decides to go watch porn...I do believe that watching anything makes you a bit numb...I also believe in the long run porn takes away from the intimate part of sex.

You don’t have to be a violent person to watch porn, //// this is true...porn watchers run through all the ages from 8 to 99 through all classes of people through everyone.

if you see something you would like to try and it’s with consenting adults, or even at home by yourself alone, then where’s the harm? /// on the surface one might think what is the harm...I still believe it makes a person numb to the real life experience...dig a little deeper and see where the money goes...how it is produced...

YOU chose the type of porn you watch,
YOU go out and purchase the films, books, magazines, imitation latex body parts, toys, pumps, Lycra, leather goods, pink fluffy handcuffs; ECT the list goes on… //// for most it is probably a choice...for some it may become an addiction...

All relating to your own and / or your partners sexual desires, not all of them are bad, sick or degrading, and not all of us are violent sexual predators that blame porn usage for our actions, /// agreed that those that watch porn come from all types and majority are not sexual predators...

Why hasn’t a mainstream study, on the many different types of people that do watch porn, been done? /// I would image most people keep in fairly private...not everyone would admit to it or want to be studied for it...

Why is it we start with violent sex offenders and work backwards when we talk about porn usage? /// not everyone does...that is not how I started my discussion in this thread...though I don't have any research...it is interesting that those who are sex offenders may have watched porn and those who take their lives may have had a mental illness. Can the reverse be said? Just because you watch porn will you be a sex offender? or just because you have mental illness you will take your life? I don't think it is an absolute connection there but there is definately something going on...

Its time to cut threw all the crap relating to porn use has I see it personally, and see it for what it really is, a form of escape, a sexual release, //// very true regarding an escape and release - I have used since I was eight...

curiosity, experimentation, call it whatever you want, if it was not threw the things I have just mentioned, we would all still be doing it in the missionary position /// I think that people before porn would have been fairly creative...you don't give them enough credit...

Rayna -

I wasn't going to post either because I couldn't quite figure out what I was going to say and then you said it! I agree with you totally.

I think this is just a very volatile subject for alot of people for personal reasons, you're either going to be totally against it or kinda on the fence/for it.

Thanks for your share!

Tranquility

you mean there is more than the missionary position?!!!!!!!!

Fayer im just talking about when i was young, it was mostly sailors and convicts who had tattoos. IM sure there are women who had them then and i know that in different times and different cultures, tattoos can and did/do have a plethora of meanings and symbolism. I was talking about Amurica in the last century.

It's interesting to see how many tangents this discussion has led to in various topics.
I think I may have started the subject of crime related to pornography in my mention of Ted Bundy and his proclamation that he had been addicted to porn, which (he said) led to his criminal acts. I think this was a ploy and excuse on his part as his execution neared. I would characterize him and others like him as a psychopath and sociopath, with or without pornography.

On a personal note, I have dated a couple of fellas who revealed their interest in pornography, be it strip bars, films, or in print. Some hid it, but I suspected it, only to have it confirmed. Their notions of intimacy and relationships in general were not good, and they were not nice men. At the time, upon learning of this preoccupation, I didn't object, just hung in there for awhile to get to know the person...Now I would view this as a big red flag and end it! And NO, I'm not a prude!
Patty

Okay...I just have to share this one...When I was still looking for potential dates online thru Match.com, I met this man who seemed pretty inarticulate, not expressing himself very well, but we met for dinner at a local restaurant. He was surprisingly interesting enough, suggesting interesting things we seemed to have in common, but I still wasn't comfortable and did a search of other singles' sites, finally bouncing into a site called "adult friend finders" where men display their erect penises and women their vaginas! There he was, stupidly showing his picture (not his genitals!) saying he wanted a "discreet sexual relationship!"...He continued to call a few times and I didn't answer the phone, finally emailing him that I had seen that he was on "adultfriendfinder.com," and that was a pornographic site, and not to contact me again. Who the hell would post their erect penis on the Internet!???
Patty

I hadn't really planned on becoming a part of this ongoing discussion. I haven't read all the posts either, but it appears that perhaps the negative side of the porn industry hasn't really been considered?

Sure, it's there for you to watch or not, but any involvement on someone's part of viewing creates the need for the film or pic to view..and therein lies a deeper issue. It isn't a nice, innocent, harmless business. There are plenty of documentaries out there to view, if one takes time, to see the seedy side and the horrible abuses it causes.

"Not to mention" the commandment to not covet or lust.

TC

i know they are trying to publicise a 'friendly happy healthy' porn industry image with happy healthy models who are just THRILLED to be doing what they are doing..

let me ask a question, however...

what if that person you are looking at in that picture / video is only doing it because her child is sick and that is the only way she can afford money for her operation?

what if that person you are looking at in that picture / video was sexually abused and so started posing thinking that taking a little money in exchange was the most respect and power that one could obtain in life?

how do you know that isn't the situation of the person you are looking at?

since you don't know...

how can you get off on it?

i mean... doesn't this occur to people? the fact that there might have been coercion? if its okay to be a porn model then let me ask you:

- how would you feel about your mother being a porn model?
- how about your daughter?

why not?

and if those thoughts make you cringe slightly then that shows you how porn involves the viewer seeing the models as sexual objects rather than as persons (with their own needs and desires and preferences and hang-ups etc).

one is training ones body to feel sexually stimulated in response to an object.

i think that porn often is harmful to the people involved in the industry (models are often poorly treated DESPITE the image that the industry attempts to convey). society also has a negative view of people who participate in the industry (the majority of people wouldn't like it if their mother or sister or daughter participated in it). the majority of people wouldn't want their mother or sister or daughter or wife to participate in the industry because they think it would characterise them as 'sluts' and that other people would view them with disrespect.

this is to say nothing of the children who are sold into the industry and people who are literally forced to participate in it who are obviously incredibly harmed by the existence of the industry.

i think that porn often is harmful to the viewer because it encourages the viewer to have a sexual response to objects rather than persons and because it often encourages the viewer to have a sexual response to violent themes. people who have that pathological tendency already get to indulge / encourage it. people who don't initially have that tendency often train their bodies such that they do develop that tendency. at the very least it encourages a person to view sex as an activity where one does what one wants to an object. the majority of porn is male centered and involves disregarding the very things that females take most pleasure in (foreplay etc).