[Rapunzel]

I'm looking for more feedback on this issue, and I also think that I'm not the only one who does it, so I thought I would post it here even though I have some possible answers already. Thanks to those who gave me feedback in chat, and also thanks in advance to those who respond here.

I have this tendency to tell people that I'm bad (or something along that line), and I want them to reassure me that I'm not bad, and then I respond to that with, essentially, "thanks, but I really am bad afterall." T says she doesn't get it, and is asking me why I do that. There is more to the problem too - why I am capable of doing some things well, in some settings, but when it comes to other situations I feel like I'm totally incompetent and give up without really trying, and think that I can't do anything right. I'm trying to make sense of the split, as well as answer why I do that. Have any of you noticed that I do that? Keep in mind that if you tell me that I'm not bad, it's going to just wash right over, so I guess there isn't much point in that.

I'll go ahead and share some of the ideas that I have come up with or have been given so far: <ul type="square">[*]this is something that goes along with low self-esteem[*]borderline personality disorder (I have not been given that dx, but I feel that I meet the criteria)[*]i'm caught in a loop (and it has become habit)[*]I just need to disagree[*]maybe if the other person takes the role of claiming that I am good, that frees me up to stick to the "I'm bad" role[*]trauma model - why would someone who loves me hurt me? It's easier to conclude that I was bad, and therefore to blame, since it isn't safe to blame a caretaker (needed them to be safe), and if it's my fault, I might feel like I have more control[*]fear of rejection - if I reduce their expectations, it reduces the chance that people will expect more than I can provide[*]if I reject myself first, it isn't as important if other people reject me[*]I feel like I deserve to be punished or abused[/list]The other thing that I have come up with, that feels the closest to me (although all of these may have merit), is that I feel like I am bad, and that anyone close to me would know that I am bad, so I can't believe them when they say that I'm not. I assume that they are just saying what they know I want them to say. I feel like anything good that I do is all part of a facade, not the real me. And I want to be real with people, so I feel compelled to let them in on the 'real me.'

I still don't know what payoff there is in either that split, or insisting that I'm bad. If you have any thoughts, I would love to hear them.

Rap

[4everANDever]

I totally feel the same way you do. I'm in therapy too, but I have been diagnosed with any disorder. My T keeps trying to get me to stop beating myself up and try to talk more with others and be more social, but the loop thing you talk about and rejecting yourself first thing seems to be happening more and more lately.

It is a terrible loop, but I wish I could tell you how to break it. I hope others post help more but don't feel you're alone.

[kimmydawn]

rapunzel, i think the "i'm bad" is coming from childhood abuse/neglect. children know little concepts. they're only reasoning to why they're being treated the way that they are is "i'm bad". it's too difficult, painful and unacceptable to think that the parents and other adults are bad, so it come back on the child. we have a child here that's still in that place.

only you can actively decide to "go against the grain". you MUST fight with that internal thought. first, get some ammunition in which to do so. list the reasons that you're not bad and actively argue the point within yourself. this takes a long time...even a year of active arguing. it's easier not to do that, but nothing worthwhile is easy i've done this same thing with AWESOME results. if anything happened (even things in which i had no control) it was because i was bad and not good enough. Now, that's another point.

first and foremost, you have to pinpoint and acknowledge that there's not alot you can control. recognize what you can and then have the argument pertaining to only things in which you had any control to begin with. i hope this is making some sense?

it really really has worked for me rap. you can create you own variations of this. it's so hard because we're going against the grain...what's been as natural in our lives and blinking and breathing. it takes constant awareness of the action.

i wish you well. i so know what you're talking about. i can still fall into that "trap", but that part of my life has greatly improved. if you decide to do this...write everything down along the way!

gl, dear. i know your upset here.

kd

[Rapunzel]

Thanks 4ever and Kimmy. I don't feel as stupid about it knowing that other people get caught in this trap too. Beating myself up is all too familiar. 4ever, I hope you can get out of the loop too.

Kimmy, thanks for the suggestions. I will work on it, and write things down. Do you feel bad about things that you can't control too? That's a big one for me, especially when someone gets hurt, or my performance suffers, even if it is for reasons beyond my control.

[complic8d]

I know we discussed this in chat last night, and I too feel the "bad"ness. I know it is, in part, from not being validated and accepted when I was a child. The child in me concluded that there is something horribly wrong with me. If anyone gives me a compliment I automatically dispute it, if at least only in my head. I guess I get caught up in the punishment of beating myself up. I logically "know" that I have not done something so horrible as to forever label me as bad, but I just can't rid myself of that feeling. It also goes along with abandonment issues, that I am sure people will find out the "real, bad" me and then they will leave. I even went throught this with my therapist, almost trying to "prove" that she would leave me. I still can't completely shake the feeling that I will be abandoned, by anyone at anytime. I could not handle that much disappointment and so I try to beat them to it by putting myself down. It's almost easier if I assume that I will be left alone than to take the risk and depend on someone and really be hurt when they do.
I know I am rambling. This really hits on my core issues. I am trying to let you know that I understand how you feel. I am trying to work on it, but I am just not there yet. Good luck to you. HUGS!

[LMo]

I understand the 'habit' part of it. When I was a teenager, I went through several phases where I kept saying "I'm sorry" to everything that anyone said. I wasn't actually sorry -- it really was more of an automated response. But of course it prompted others to talk about my 'insecurity' and that, in turn, made me insecure. I was, as you said, caught in a loop. I really had to force myself to NOT say it in order to break the habit.

I think your situation is much more complex than mine was, but I thought I'd share that experience.

On the other hand, could you just change your 'tone' when you say "I'm bad"? Instead of saying it in an apologetic way, could you say it in an "oh yeah - I'm BAD!" way? Just as part of the weaning process?

[Rapunzel]

((((((complic8d))))))) Thanks for understanding. I think that punishment and abandonment issues are definitely part of it. Good luck to you also.

LMo, OMG I still do that. As a teenager someone told me that I should always accept compliments, because when I argued with them it made the other person feel bad. I can't stand to make someone feel bad, so I made "thank-you" an automatic response to compliments, even if I didn't feel it. I've been slipping on that in the last couple of years. I say I'm sorry constantly, and I do mean it, whether it's my fault or not. Changing my tone - well, 'I'm BAD' really isn't my style, so that one probably wouldn't work for me. Thanks for the idea, and for sharing your experience.

[LMo]

oh come on! just give it a try! "oh yeah -- I'm baaaaaad!!!" (evil laugh)

[SeptemberMorn]

Wendy, in the time I have known you, I've never felt as if you were pushing me away or trying to convince me that you're "bad." We've disagreed on some things, but that's just par for the course in any friendship. HOWEVER! If you want to tell me you're bad, Ok... I can accept that. It doesn't mean that I'll love you any less, though. If you're "bad," it's a kind of "bad" I can live with. I can accept the "bad" parts as easily as I can accept the good parts. It doesn't make you any less "worthy" in my book!

If we were 3D friends and someone said something negative about our friendship, that would be THEIR problem, not mine or yours. They would have to deal with it on their own terms; whatever made them comfortable. If they couldn't be my friend because I was friends with you, then I didn't need their "friendship" to begin with!

I'm this way with all of my relationships. I make up my own mind about whom I can accept just as they are or whom I can't. There's many people that would want to be in my life, but if I can't accept their "bad" then I don't keep company with them.

Again... HOWEVER! In telling you all this, I'm not speaking in general terms. I am directly speaking to YOU, my dear friend, Wendy. I ACCEPT YOU JUST AS YOU ARE! Do you think YOU could accept Wendy just as she is?

[LMo]

And Wendy, if we ever do meet each other in 3D someday (roommates in a retirement home? ), *I* will "insist" that we come up with a dance routine to Michael Jackson's "I'm Bad" song. We can sing and dance together, ok? I can only imagine the giggles

[kimmydawn]

rapunzel, feeling bad about things beyond my control brings back a really "strong" t session i had. whew, it was up there in the top 5. let me explain. i'll never forget what his said and his point. it's stuck with me all this time and helps me even today.

i don't know if you believe in a higher power, but i do and t knows it. anyhow, he kept trying to point out that i get upset and feel responsible about things that i had no control over then one day he looked at me and said that i must be very conceited (not that word, but one similar). i was shocked...and immediately pissed! i asked him why he thought that. he said that i think i have the powers of God to change and control things that are beyond my control. WOWOW, that sunk it...few things sink it like that, in fact. he went on to say that only God can control certain things in this world...like ppl and events, etc. i'll never forget that and i still think of it when i start to get wrapped up. he went on to explain that i can feel sorry for ppl, and care for their pain, but i can do that and not have to feel responsible for it.

whew, that still gives me a shock

kd