[Bubbles4444]

I live in a share house in the city on weekends and on Friday night we had a house warming. We invited a stack of people and obviously had plenty to drink. A few of us went to a club and continued drinking there until around 4am (According to a message I sent a Friend at that time saying I was heading home) I left the club with what I thought were a group of close friends and went home. There's around 17 of us that have a share in this particular share house which we use on weekends (we all live out of the city so it makes a nice get away house when we want to have fun on the weekend) and of those 17 only 3 of us are girls so we get our own room. On Friday I was the only girl at the house so I had my room all to myself, or so I thought. One of my 'friends' decided he wanted to sleep on the floor and I was too drunk to argue more then a little with him so I gave up and went to sleep/passed out.

I woke up a little while later when he crawled into my bed, I tried to tell him to go sleep on the couch but by this point I was very drunk and couldn't really find the energy to care more then a little. I told him to stay on his side and passed out again. It was a few hours later when I woke up again suddenly and realized something was wrong. He had penetrated me from behind and I had no idea how long he had been going for. I was in complete shock and still incredibly drunk. I couldn't even move, my brain had stopped working, so I just lay there letting him do what he liked because I couldn't figure out what to do to stop it. Im still not sure how long it was before I managed to think of rolling over 'in my sleep' so he didn't have ' access' any more. I also have no idea how long I continued to lie there pretending to be 'asleep' before he gave up. I just know that when he did finally fall asleep I found the energy and determination to get up and move to the couch where I passed out again.

The next morning he acted like nothing happened and he kept asking people "what did we do last night? I was so drunk I don't remember". I had no idea what to do, so up until now I have just been ignoring what happened. But tonight I cant get to sleep, I keep thinking over and over that it was my fault. That somehow I gave him a sign that said 'do what you want well I'm passed out'.

I feel so guilty but at the same time I don't know what I could have done differently. I was very drunk and clearly not with it but I don't think that's an excuse for what this guy did to me. I don't know where to go from here. I guess my question is, was this rape? Technically I was drunk and he was drunk but at no time did I consent to him doing what he did. I mean I was passed out on my bed when he started and I have no idea how long he had been doing it.

[IrisBloom]

If no consent was given, it was rape. Hopefully you learned a lesson.

If you were unable to consent, it was rape. I'm very sorry this happened to you.

This video might explain consent:

[starryprince]

As everyone said, if there was no consent, it's rape, end of story. Period. It doesn't matter if you were drinking. I never understood how people could assault someone and blame it on the alcohol because there's so many steps involved in that act...That and there are people who get drunk and don't assault others. They just literally pass out somewhere. So personally I don't think him being drunk is an excuse to rape you. It doesn't matter if you were both drinking. I REALLY want you to understand that none of this is your fault. You didn't let him do anything. When something dangerous happens to us, we go into fight or flight mode, or sometimes we completely freeze up out of fear. It's a natural response.

I'm very sorry that happened to you. I wish you the best of luck in healing.

Also, even if your assaulter believed drunk people could give consent, he started while you were asleep and any sane person can understand sleeping people cannot give consent.

[GreenBlueRed]

Yes, it was rape. No, it was not your fault. No, he doesn't get a "pass" due to alcohol consumption, and he doesn't get a "pass" because you didn't get into a confrontation over it.

That is the lie that is told. If you didn't fight, you must have been ok with it and no harm done. That is a total lie. You are not guilty for being passive. It is a common response of self- preservation and confusion over an assualt like that. It is one that few understand until they go through it themselves.

However, confronting him now will probably not be fruitful. He will likely deny everything, as he indicated by claiming he didn't remember the previous night. Stay away from this person, as he clearly doesn't respect you and doesn't deserve your company.

Depending on how close you are with them, you might want to warn the other two girls that might end up in that situation so they can better protect themselves. You don't have to say you were raped, but that he tried to get fresh with you when he thought you were sleeping and you had to leave the room. Let them know he is not trustworthy. I say this with some hesitance, however, because it could make the situation more difficult, depending on the circumstances and relationships within your group.

Take away from this that you do need to be more forceful with boundaries when your safety might be compromised. Keeping the boundaries clear will empower you, and you will be able to expose those who commit a crime like this. It is not fair that we are not taught how to handle being attacked. It is not something we spontaneously know how to deal with.

I am sorry this happened to you. It happened to me, and I still don't know what the right thing is, except I learned how to better avoid it in the future by staying out of situations where I would be alone with a man that is showing bad intentions. It doesn't make it right, but nothing really would. You are not alone.

[TishaBuv]

I'm sorry this happened to you. And I think people are going to hate me for saying this. But if I were on the jury in this rape case, I would say 'no, this was not rape'.

You were all drinking and sleeping together. Yes, he took advantage of you without your consent. But it was ambiguous, and you didn't really protest either.

You just put yourself in a vulnerable situation and got taken advantage of. But I would not convict this 'friend' of rape.

[starryprince]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Yes, he took advantage of you without your consent. But it was ambiguous, and you didn't really protest either.

You just put yourself in a vulnerable situation and got taken advantage of. But I would not convict this 'friend' of rape.

...I'm sorry but I have a huge problem with your response. It sounds pretty victim blaming. It doesn't matter if they were all drinking or sleeping together. You said it yourself: "Yes, he took advantage of you without your consent." No consent was given, therefore it was sexual assault. Period. She didn't put herself in a vulnerable position by just drinking. If that's the case then everyone who consumed alcohol and we're sexually assaulted just "put themselves in a vulnerable situation". That's a horrible thing to say. She trusted her friends and that trust was destroyed in a horrible way. She didn't protest because, as I said in another post, when something horrible is happening to you, you freeze up. You get terrified and you literally don't know what to do. They were all drinking, okay, sure. That's not an excuse. I'm sorry but this whole response rubbed me the wrong way so much.

This is a forum for survivors of abuse. Your response is triggering to other people who have gone through similar situations as the OP and it's disrespectful to all survivors.

[dcs_no1_fan]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I'm sorry this happened to you. And I think people are going to hate me for saying this. But if I were on the jury in this rape case, I would say 'no, this was not rape'.

You were all drinking and sleeping together. Yes, he took advantage of you without your consent. But it was ambiguous, and you didn't really protest either.

You just put yourself in a vulnerable situation and got taken advantage of. But I would not convict this 'friend' of rape.

How the hell can you say this was not rape.
They were not sleeping together.
She did NOT ask for this to happen.
She did NOT say yes to having sex with him.
She was asleep.
Yes she had been drinking.
Yes he had been drinking this DOES NOT give him the right to do what he did.
Rape is Rape.
Not giving consent in any way makes it rape, she was asleep ffs.
Just because she didn't fight doesn't mean it was not rape because it WAS rape.
We all react differently when in this situation.
I was raped for over 13 years by my ex husband but because I didn't fight him like if you're grabbed by a stranger in the stree I'm sure you will say I wasn't raped by him, maybe I asked for it because we were married and slept in the same bed at night or because we would have nights out and get drunk and he would come home and rape me after, of course this didn't happen because every time it happened I didn't scream, fight, scratch, hit ect due to the children being in the same room or in the room next door, I must have asked for it because I had put a bit of makeup on that night or I had a skirt on.

IF YOU DO NOT GIVE CONSENT IN ANYWAY, IF YOU ARE ASLEEP OR DRUNK, DRUGGED OR PASSED OUT IT IS ****ING RAPE.

NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO ANYTHING TO YOU IF YOU DONT WANT THEM TO, PUTTING YOURSELF IN YOUR OWN BED IN YOUR ROOM AND GOING TO SLEEP IS NOT PUTTING YOURSELF IN A VULNERABLE SITUATION.

[dcs_no1_fan]

Originally Posted by Bubbles4444

I live in a share house in the city on weekends and on Friday night we had a house warming. We invited a stack of people and obviously had plenty to drink. A few of us went to a club and continued drinking there until around 4am (According to a message I sent a Friend at that time saying I was heading home) I left the club with what I thought were a group of close friends and went home. There's around 17 of us that have a share in this particular share house which we use on weekends (we all live out of the city so it makes a nice get away house when we want to have fun on the weekend) and of those 17 only 3 of us are girls so we get our own room. On Friday I was the only girl at the house so I had my room all to myself, or so I thought. One of my 'friends' decided he wanted to sleep on the floor and I was too drunk to argue more then a little with him so I gave up and went to sleep/passed out go sleep on the couch but by this point I was very drunk and couldn't really find the energy to care more then a little. I told him to stay on his side and passed out again. It was a few hours later when I woke up again suddenly and realized something was wrong. He had penetrated me from behind and I had no idea how long he had been going for. I was in complete shock and still incredibly drunk. I couldn't even move, my brain had stopped working, so I just lay there letting him do what he liked because I couldn't figure out what to do to stop it. Im still not sure how long it was before I managed to think of rolling over 'in my sleep' so he didn't have ' access' any more. I also have no idea how long I continued to lie there pretending to be 'asleep' before he gave up. I just know that when he did finally fall asleep I found the energy and determination to get up and move to the couch where I passed out again.

The next morning he acted like nothing happened and he kept asking people "what did we do last night? I was so drunk I don't remember". I had no idea what to do, so up until now I have just been ignoring what happened. But tonight I cant get to sleep, I keep thinking over and over that it was my fault. That somehow I gave him a sign that said 'do what you want well I'm passed out'.

I feel so guilty but at the same time I don't know what I could have done differently. I was very drunk and clearly not with it but I don't think that's an excuse for what this guy did to me. I don't know where to go from here. I guess my question is, was this rape? Technically I was drunk and he was drunk but at no time did I consent to him doing what he did. I mean I was passed out on my bed when he started and I have no idea how long he had been doing it.

Massive hugs sweetie, unfortunately yes this was rape, not giving consent in anyway makes it rape, you had passed out through having too much to drink, if you are drunk, drugged, passed out, say no, can't say no, asleep ect it is rape, you need to report it to the police and they will help you through the next steps, I also agree that you need to say to the other girls that something happened, if you don't want them to know you were raped then maybe just saying that he tried it on with you and made you feel very uncomfortable. (((Hugs)))

[GreenBlueRed]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

But I would not convict this 'friend' of rape.

Possible trigger:

It is deeply troubling that someone would think having sex with an unconscious person does not constitute rape. Do you understand what you are saying?

Further, sexual penetration with someone who is unconscious or asleep is virtually always deemed a rape, as there is no way for the individual to give their consent to the act.

Read more: What Is Rape?

During college (35 years ago)--I put myself in some situations where either someone tried or did take advantage of me (unplanned sex). Whenever I had only drank moderately or had not been drinking at all, it was a lot easier to walk (or run) away from the situation. I also recall going to the bar in college with a friend (since I drove, I drank moderately) and seeing how some guys would look for drunk girls to hook up with when it was "last call". I am very sorry that you have to deal with this memory. I know how troubling it can be.

Possible trigger:

However, right or wrong, in my experience, when you get drunk amongst guys, these troubling situations happen more frequently. In the article: What Is Rape? it says,
"Consent, or lack thereof, is one of the main elements of the crime of rape."
In my opinion, unless there are witnesses, this is harder to prove in court when you are drinking heavily. Witnesses only saw how much she drank. Yes, the article also says, "Further, sexual penetration with someone who is unconscious or asleep is virtually always deemed a rape, as there is no way for the individual to give their consent to the act." but this might also be hard to prove because she stayed with him (and there were even others around, she was not a hostage) for such an extended period of time. Whatever his intentions were--if a guy is accused of rape, it is a serious crime and most would claim that you consented (I have been in situations where I didn't know if I consented or not!). I am NOT trying to blame the victim only stating reality. I would think that reporting a crime that you can't easily prove might be traumatizing but a good compromise could be telling your gfs what happened so it doesn't happen to them. That said, she did NOT ask for this and did not do anything wrong.

[JanuaryDaybreak]

Former Vice President Joe Biden is trying to get the word out about situations like yours. The point he makes is, if you didn't consent, it was rape. If you were too drunk to consent, then he shouldn't have assumed that you were all right with it. The other thing to remember is, rape is never the victim's fault. Rape is about control, nothing else. The rapist always has a choice, and yours chose to take advantage while you were vulnerable.

It may be more difficult to prove without physical evidence or corroborating witnesses, but you probably should press charges. And definitely get tested for STD's.

I'm very sorry this happened to you.

[TishaBuv]

I'm sorry my response was triggering. I am giving an honest answer to the OP's question, "Was it rape?" IMHO, if I were on the jury in this legal rape case, I would say it was not rape. I am not speaking on any one else's rape experiences, I myself have been date raped. It's not the fact that you were drinking, that I say it wasn't legally rape. It's all the details you said. It would be interesting to hear the guy's POV.

Of course, I am sorry this happened to you, and you have every right to your emotions. But before you accuse this guy of rape, maybe you should talk to him about what was in his mind. Maybe he thought you were willing. Remember, he was very drunk too?

I am a mother of three young men. It is scary as hell for them about how they might be easily accused of rape. This giving consent thing is strange. Who ever verbally gives consent first? Do you sign an agreement?

I'm sorry you all hate me now.

" rape
Also found in: Dictionary, Thesaurus, Medical, Acronyms, Idioms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
Related to rape: rapped, rapping
Rape
A criminal offense defined in most states as forcible sexual relations with a person against that person's will.
Rape is the commission of unlawful sexual intercourse or unlawful sexual intrusion. Rape laws in the United States have been revised over the years, and they vary from state to state.
Historically, rape was defined as unlawful sexual intercourse with a woman against her will. The essential elements of the crime were sexual penetration, force, and lack of consent. Women who were raped were expected to have physically resisted to the utmost of their powers or their assailant would not be convicted of rape. Additionally, a husband could have sex with his wife against her will without being charged with rape. Beginning in the 1970s, state legislatures and courts expanded and redefined the crime of rape to reflect modern notions of equality and legal propriety.
As of the early 2000s, all states define rape without reference to the sex of the victim and the perpetrator. Though the overwhelming majority of rape victims are women, a woman may be convicted of raping a man, a man may be convicted of raping a man, and a woman may be convicted of raping another woman. Furthermore, a spouse may be convicted of rape if the perpetrator forces the other spouse to have nonconsensual sex. Many states do not punish the rape of a spouse as severely as the rape of a non-spouse.
Many states also have redefined lack of consent. Before the 1970s, many courts viewed the element of force from the standpoint of the victim. A man would not be convicted of rape of a competent woman unless she had demonstrated some physical resistance. In the absence of physical resistance, courts usually held that the sexual act was consensual. In the early 2000s in many states, the prosecution can prove lack of consent by presenting evidence that the victim objected verbally to the sexual penetration or sexual intrusion.
Lack of consent is a necessary element in every rape. But this qualifier does not mean that a person may make sexual contact with a minor or incapacitated person who actually consented. Lack of consent may result from either forcible compulsion by the perpetrator or an incapacity to consent on the part of the victim. Persons who are physically or mentally helpless or who are under a certain age in relation to the perpetrator are deemed legally incapable of consenting to sex.
Most states choose to label the crime of rape as sexual assault. Sexual assault is divided into degrees: first-, second-, third-, and fourth-degree sexual assault. West Virginia provides an illustration of how rape laws are typically written. In West Virginia, a person is guilty of sexual assault in the first degree when that person engages in sexual intercourse or sexual intrusion with another person and either inflicts serious bodily injury upon anyone or employs a deadly weapon in the commission of the act (W. Va. Code § 61-8B-3 [1996]). Additionally, a person age 14 years or older who engages in sexual intercourse or sexual intrusion with another person who is 11 years old or less is guilty of first-degree sexual assault. A person convicted of the crime of first-degree sexual assault in West Virginia faces imprisonment for at least 15 years and not more than 35 years and may be fined from $1,000 to $10,000.
In West Virginia, a person commits sexual assault in the second degree by engaging in sexual intercourse or sexual intrusion with another person without that person's consent, and the lack of consent results from forcible compulsion. Forcible compulsion is (1) physical force that overcomes such earnest resistance as might reasonably be expected under the circumstances; (2) threat or intimidation, either express or implied, placing the victim or another person in fear of death, bodily injury, or Kidnapping; or (3) fear by a person under 16 years of age caused by intimidation by another person who is at least four years older than the victim.
Another way to commit second-degree sexual assault in West Virginia is to engage in sexual intercourse or sexual intrusion with someone who is physically helpless. The punishment for second-degree sexual assault is imprisonment for at least ten years but not more than 25 years and may include a fine of from $1,000 to $10,000."

[Allisonallison]

^^Dude, she was asleep. If your sons are so scared of being accused of rape, tell them not to penetrate an unconscious woman. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Are you Brock Turners mother?

OP, your story is basically how I lost my virginity. It is absolutely rape and you are not at fault. Do you have a therapist to work through these emotions with? I know it is painful and scary, but I promise with time you will start to feel better. If you want to talk privately please feel free to pm me. Hugs

[TishaBuv]

I gave an opinion. Now stop attacking me, folks. That's why there are juries.

Back to you, OP.

May you get the support you need to heal from this incident.

Allisonallison--That sounds like a very painful experience, I am sorry it happened to you.

Possible trigger:

While there are men out there who target women, I find myself not 100% sure if he did. Why? I am usually a very responsible drinker but on three occassions I have drank to the point that I can't remember large portions of the evening (and in one case, in the parts that I remember I was not acting like I normally do). It is theoretically possible that something could have happened earlier that could have played into this drunk guy's act.

Bubbles seemed unsure too. I think the uncertainty about the guy's motives, your own values, cultural beliefs, if it is your first time and all the rest make it hard for us to deal with our feelings when this happens. I hope she is feeling better today....

Possible trigger:

Bubbles--Perhaps we were both targets (in one case I suspected I was but not 100% sure)--but the way we feel (did we give a signal?) and the heated responses in this thread demonstrates why it would be useless to report this unless there was a witness who could fill in more--It is your word against his when you report things like this. Sorry this happened.

I'm actually less concerned by having sexual intercourse with a drunk person (because you can claim some kind of consent - drunk people can't legally give consent, but your assailant might not have known that) and more concerned by the fact that he had intercourse with you while you slept. Any idiot can know that sleeping people can in no way consent to anything.

[lowpoint]

You hear them, charge the sh^t out of that prick. These bright sparks believe they own these girls, especially in college. One that gets away is another girl's nightmare. Or another woman's nightmare in the future.

And please seek help, I know you will beat this.

[PreciousQueen]

Originally Posted by Bubbles4444

I live in a share house in the city on weekends and on Friday night we had a house warming. We invited a stack of people and obviously had plenty to drink. A few of us went to a club and continued drinking there until around 4am (According to a message I sent a Friend at that time saying I was heading home) I left the club with what I thought were a group of close friends and went home. There's around 17 of us that have a share in this particular share house which we use on weekends (we all live out of the city so it makes a nice get away house when we want to have fun on the weekend) and of those 17 only 3 of us are girls so we get our own room. On Friday I was the only girl at the house so I had my room all to myself, or so I thought. One of my 'friends' decided he wanted to sleep on the floor and I was too drunk to argue more then a little with him so I gave up and went to sleep/passed out.

I woke up a little while later when he crawled into my bed, I tried to tell him to go sleep on the couch but by this point I was very drunk and couldn't really find the energy to care more then a little. I told him to stay on his side and passed out again. It was a few hours later when I woke up again suddenly and realized something was wrong. He had penetrated me from behind and I had no idea how long he had been going for. I was in complete shock and still incredibly drunk. I couldn't even move, my brain had stopped working, so I just lay there letting him do what he liked because I couldn't figure out what to do to stop it. Im still not sure how long it was before I managed to think of rolling over 'in my sleep' so he didn't have ' access' any more. I also have no idea how long I continued to lie there pretending to be 'asleep' before he gave up. I just know that when he did finally fall asleep I found the energy and determination to get up and move to the couch where I passed out again.

The next morning he acted like nothing happened and he kept asking people "what did we do last night? I was so drunk I don't remember". I had no idea what to do, so up until now I have just been ignoring what happened. But tonight I cant get to sleep, I keep thinking over and over that it was my fault. That somehow I gave him a sign that said 'do what you want well I'm passed out'.

I feel so guilty but at the same time I don't know what I could have done differently. I was very drunk and clearly not with it but I don't think that's an excuse for what this guy did to me. I don't know where to go from here. I guess my question is, was this rape? Technically I was drunk and he was drunk but at no time did I consent to him doing what he did. I mean I was passed out on my bed when he started and I have no idea how long he had been doing it.

You didn't deserve it to happen to you. No one does. There really was nothing you could have done more. He had NO right and his drunkeness wasn't an excuse.
It was definitely rape. If you have the strength, thanks a rape kit and prosecute.
I made the mistake of waiting. Mine raped me at the same place a previous man did and the police wouldn't take it because I had a panic attack because I was in that place. For some reason, they think that I can't really report my own rape because I have PTSD and reacted to being there and also an attempt at suicide after. They didn't really care that he pressured me into drinking nor that he knew about the place and the effects on me.
Even though he's the drug kingpin of my area, they won't do anything at all.

Good luck.

[GreenBlueRed]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I gave an opinion. Now stop attacking me, folks. That's why there are juries.

Back to you, OP.

May you get the support you need to heal from this incident.

No one was attacking you, just pointing out the flaws in your reasoning about consent; which you never addressed. You said she did not give consent, but apparently didn't "protest" enough after the act was already happening, and somehow that gave defacto consent, even though she never actively engaged in the act.

It is worth addressing because responses like yours are victim blaming.

[Ripdlc]

First, I am SO sorry this happened to you! No one deserves this! It is YOUR body, it belongs to YOU & YOU ALONE! You decide who gets to touch it and who doesn't. Yes, it is rape. You didn't "freeze" because you were "too drunk to fight him off" IMO you froze because you went into shock and couldn't move because you couldn't believe what was happening. (That happens to some survivors...that doesn't diminish the trauma of the rape)
It's no excuse that he was too drunk. A lot of people get "too drunk". How many get too drunk, look across the room and think, "Hmmm....I'm going to go rape my friend because she won't remember anyway." I know the immediate feelings of guilt and I wish I could tell you how to stop feeling them because you honestly and truly did nothing wrong AT ALL. NOTHING! If you need to talk, I'm here.

[greentires4me]

I am going to share something personal here the first time I was raped or sexually assaulted as they called it I was drunk. It wasn't my fault I didn't consent to it!...no one has the right to treat you that way. Find some local support,, get therapy maybe thinking about charging him, but cops aren't always receptive as I have found.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by GreenBlueRed

No one was attacking you, just pointing out the flaws in your reasoning about consent; which you never addressed. You said she did not give consent, but apparently didn't "protest" enough after the act was already happening, and somehow that gave defacto consent, even though she never actively engaged in the act.

It is worth addressing because responses like yours are victim blaming.

Bubbles hasn't been back to this thread. I made my comments to give her an idea of pursuing a rape conviction from this incident. I don't want to get in to all that went into my thinking. I don't appreciate being called out here and judged. It's not helpful to anyone.

I had a date rape at 16 that took my virginity. I did not ever speak about it again to anyone. I feel doing that would have made everything worse. My experience was a little similar to Bubble's experience, in that it was an ambiguous he-said/she-said. Had it been different, you bet I'd have prosecuted.

To each his own. Best wishes to all victims.