Was this abuse

This may be a stupid post but I have some questions about what constitutes sexual abuse and whether I was actually abused. Since I’m having to ask… it probably means that I wasn’t! I get it when stuff is done to a child by an adult but what about when done by older kids?
Here is my background information sorry for the length.
I was raised in a two parent home where the kids were basically sent outside to play until meal time. My parents were generally loving people, totally clueless, and dad was a serious alcoholic. I lived in a lower-middle class neighborhood in the suburbs. My neighborhood was fairly violent and we kids really ran amuck. The best way to describe it is that it was a lot like the island described in the Lord of the Flies book. The only difference was that our particular island had the addition of 2 little girls. I was the youngest age 8 the other girl was 10 and the rest of the kids were all boys ranging in age from 11-15. Needless to say the two of us were endlessly groped, tormented, coerced, manipulated, fondled, …etc. All of the things teenage boys will try to do while unsupervised and left to their own devices. Truth or dare and an advance version of spin the bottle were common games played. We had a fort in the woods where the walls were plastered with playboy centerfolds. Not the kind of place I would want my 8 and 10 yr old boys playing in let alone girls. I was lucky enough not to actually be raped by the older boys, however the other girl was not as lucky. She was a very compliant, quiet, wanted everyone to like her kind of girl who had the added curse of being more physically developed than I was. I on the other hand was a lot more volatile, aggressive, and could get down right nasty and would fight back enough to draw blood. I think the fact that I was unpredictable left the boys a little more cautious of how far they would push me. It is fairly obvious to me now as an adult that two of the older boys had some serious problems. One has been incarcerated for most of his adult life for violent crimes and the other is a drug addict living on the streets somewhere. In addition to the sexual stuff there was a lot of violence: playing chicken with knifes, dousing hands in lighter fluid setting them on fire then seeing who could be the last one to put it out, carving initials in arms, torturing domestic animals, and just daring each other to do various acts of mischief throughout the neighborhood. I was also exposed to drugs at this age. I smoked my first blunt walking to school in the 3rd grade.
Having disclosed all of this… I need to know if what I experienced was in fact sexual abuse or just typical childhood stuff that commonly occurred in the 1970’s? I realize times have changed and that the parents of my generation were basically …absent. Second when writing all this down I really don’t have any strong emotions about this time. I don’t know if I am just in denial or if I just consider it a f*ed up childhood. If it was abuse, why don’t I feel anything? The most I feel is “What in the hell were my parents thinking?” I’m in therapy now for some personal and marital problems. I really haven’t disclosed all of this other than to say that I had an early exposure to sex and violence. I don’t know if it is important to disclose all of this if I really don’t feel much about it.

That is most definately abuse. Im sorry you had to endure all that.

Yes, it certainly was abuse. Words of wisdom I've learned to live by, in assessing my own situation, are: "Just because someone else had it worse, doesn't mean I had it good." It sounds as if you doubt it was abuse because other people have stories that sound so much worse to you. But your experience is abuse, plain and simple. I hope you are taking care of yourself and helping yourself to heal. Remember, you don't deserve any more pain. You've reached your limit.

Hugs,
Raya

Yes, it was abuse... and I am very sorry...it makes me "shudder" for you..and want to cry....
When I first started therapy, I was so numb.. that I didn't really have any real feelings about my past...nothing.. I can remember relating similar thoughts and doubts to my T...
safe (hugs)

It was abuse. I think as you disclose more to your therapist you will start to feel more (which I believe is part of the process of healing, not sure as I don't know much)

A T said that as "we become closer".... "emotions become more raw"..... I wish I had never let him in but perhaps he was trying to say that I'd feel more and/or express it more, idk.

Thanks for helping me clarify that my experiences were abusive. I think I tend to intellectualize things and get hung up on minor details such has how big of a difference does there have to be between children's ages to cross the line from simple sexual exploration to exploitation. I guess what really matters is how the experience affected me individually.

I am incredibly embarrassed and defensive about my “white trash” upbringing. I worked really hard to nail shut the door to my past and have created a new, professional life for myself in a another state. My husband and I are having some serious problems mainly because he wants/needs to have both a physically and emotionally intimate relationship with me. Unfortunately, I just can’t seem to connect with people on this level. When he is affectionate with me I have the attitude of ‘What do you want from me in return?’ instead of the notion that he is trying to show his appreciation or love of me. I am very self-centered and if there is nothing in it for me then I do not want to engage on any level. He describes me as cold and distant. I also have always had great difficultly trusting people.

Here is another question to all of you--Do I really have to go into all the details of the past with my T to get resolution to my problems? Or can I just admit I was sexually abuse, period!

Well, you asked... so I will give you an honest answer from my experience... yes... if you really want to get "past it"... as time goes on.. sharing becomes less painful.. and accepting comfort heals... even if you don't "feel" like you need healing now...but it is a process.. and to me I have found that is part of the process....

I think it would be better to go into detail. Sometimes I feel as if I've talked my past to death. I get to wondering what the point is, since I can't change it by talking about it. But then it rears its ugly head again, like if my sweetie or someone else says something that disproportionately hurts my feelings, and I need to stop and evaluate where those strong emotions came from.

Defintely the fact that you have trouble being affectionate with your husband would signal a need for exploration.

Thank you both for your direct response. I think I kinda knew the answer. Obviously there is something there or I would not be wasting so much energy trying to find ways of avoiding a frank discloser with T. I guess this may be a sign of progress. At least now I can't say 'I don't have any feeling about what happen.' I now at least acknowledge that I am incredible uncomfortable with what happened and have made the connection that it might be affecting my present life.

Thanks again for your support and for serving as a reality check for me.

I don't know that I would necessarily call it abuse as much as I'd call it a really bad early environment. It is more "neglect" rather than "abuse." I feel sorry for the older guys too who ended up drug addicted, in the court system, living on the streets, etc. I think of abuse as being more "directed" and one is more contained and being preyed on consistently by someone with more power over one. I would worry though about how your growing up affected/affects you. Being "ashamed" is not a good thing. Shame implies you have a feeling of responsibility for the situation. What thoughts do you have on what you could have done to make things different? What do you feel was "your fault"? I'm glad you were a scrappy little thing :-)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I on the other hand was a lot more volatile, aggressive, and could get down right nasty and would fight back enough to draw blood. I think the fact that I was unpredictable left the boys a little more cautious of how far they would push me.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

But perhaps you feel you could have done more? I don't think you had the "resources" to do much else. If your parents were clueless (but perhaps you never told them what was going on so don't know if they would have done anything?) and you were forced out to "play" everyday, what else could you have done? I would definately explore it in therapy.

Don't forget though that all our experiences work together to form the "good" person we are. My stepmother was abusive but no one is/has just "one" thing/attribute and there are a lot of good things our relationship helped me use in myself. There is strength that developed in me as a result of the relationship and her "example." Nothing is ever all bad. You had too early practice taking care of yourself but did well it sounds like. You can count on yourself! That's a good thing to know.

Absolutely that was abuse.

Here is some info from www.preventchildabuse.com :

What is sexual abuse?

It is very difficult for most people to talk about sexual abuse and even more difficult for society as a whole to acknowledge that the sexual abuse of children of all ages -- including infants -- happens everyday in the United States. It is no an easy phenomenon to define, primarily because permissible childhood behavior varies in accordance with cultural, family and social tolerances. Sexual abuse, which is 10% of all substantiated cases of child abuse, is defined as the involvement of dependent, developmentally immature children in sexual activities that they do not fully comprehend and therefore to which they are unable to give informed consent and/or which violates the taboos of society.

Sexual abuse is any misuse of a child for sexual pleasure or gratification. It has the potential to interfere with a child's normal, healthy development, both emotionally and physically. Often, sexually victimized children experience severe emotional disturbances from their own feelings of guilt and shame, as well as the feelings which society imposes on them.

At the extreme end of the spectrum, sexual abuse includes sexual intercourse and/or its deviations. These behaviors may be the final acts in a worsening pattern of sexual abuse. For this reason and because of their devastating effects, exhibitionism, fondling and any other sexual contact with children are also considered sexually abusive.

Nontouching sexual abuse offenses include:
» Indecent exposure/exhibitionism
» Exposing children to pornographic material
» Deliberately exposing a child to the act of sexual intercourse
» Masterbation in front of a child

Touching sexual offenses include:
» Fondling
» Making a child touch an adult's sexual organs
» Any penetration of a child's vagina or %#@&#! by an object that doesn't have a medical purpose

Sexual exploitation offenses include:
» Engaging a child for the purposes of prostitution
» Using a child to film, photograph or model pornography

http://preventchildabuse.com/sexual.htm

Campy