Dissociative

I'd never shoot the messenger! This part of the quote says to me, that he believes it is a real disorder.

"People who suffer from this disorder ...."

I think we should bring it up at the next chat!! ;-) Perhaps it's time for him to update his resource postings!!

What I'm very interested in is the differentiation between DID and Ego State disorder. ESD is not yet in the DSM, but there are a lot of people who want it added. It would allow for "shades of gray" in DID diagnosing, just as there are in depression, anxiety, etc. Not everyone is severely depressed, and not everyone who dissociates has DID. The DID NOS category is simply too generic to be useful.

Emmy

phoeey I dropped the end bold ...

in John's note under the treatment for D.I.D. he states that;" People who have this disorder believe they have multiple personalities."

It reads quite differently that way. (bold print his emphasis)

Well, ego state is quite different, to me. The ego acts a bit differently as a whole than a "complete" personality... the ego is a defined aspect (and usually a selfish, often negative one lol).

There is already a confusing dx within the personality realm IMHO: borderline personality disorder. So that, with the NOS... I think professionals have enough to choose from... but then, with more and more non clinical professionals adding to the mix, the profession will probably receive more labels to utilize.

Certainly you are entitled to your opinion.

Your comment represents exactly why those with D.I.D. should have their own forum.

You don't see those members who don't BELIEVE in SI or PTSD going into those forums and saying hey, it's just a belief... (which to them might be the same as saying, hey it's all in your head, just get over it...)

So, with their own forum, they don't have to continually try and battle or explain or answer questions... the basics are understood.

I don't personally think they would isolate themselves any more than any one else.

But then, isolation doesn't matter to the webmaster, as evidenced just recently with the Internet Traveler's Lounge scenario.

oh... and I never stated that he didn't believe the disorder exists.

Actually there are basically 3 sides to this issue. One can choose to say there is no such thing. One can choose to sit on the fence and say something like what you just did. One can choose to say that there are separate functioning personalities within the same body.

To imply that all those who work with patients with DID, or that society as a whole holds your belief is quite misleading and narrow minded.

Well, unfortunately real discussion is rarely experienced with John in chat. He prefers to just refer to what he has previously written, and carry on his internet workings as a hobby.

I can't imagine why his beliefs would have changed since college anyway, as he is not actively involved in counseling nor that end of the profession. One must constantly read and review and take CEUs and such to maintain a clinical psychologist license. I don't know what is required in DE for a PsyD.

Hi radio! Haven't seen you around in a while.

I think they deserve one like all the others do. Just so they don't have to put up with discussions like this one lol

But perhaps, like I suggested, posting in Personality Place would be better suited for them.

How are ya doing?

I'm not familiar with ESD, but I will say this. You are absolutely right that not all people who dissociate have DID. However, the DSM does NOT have a diagnose called "DID not otherwise specified." There is an entirely category for classifiying various dissociative disorders, which includes: depersonalization disorder, dissociative amnesia, diss. fugue, DID, and dissociative disorder NOS. That is dissociative disorder, not dissociative IDENTITY disorder. That would cover disorders involving dissociation OTHER THAN DID and the other dissociative disorders.

btw, I disagree with those who've said those with DID should post in the personality place. DID has NOTHING to do with personality disorders.

-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-

Well I agree with you that it DID is not a personality disorder... but suggested it might be a more benign place to post than here.

The discussion we are having IS because there is NO place for those with DID to post.

It is a shame that it even has to be made.

Also, that it has become a debate at all. I haven't seen any debate about whether ADD is a disorder or a belief or ED is a disorder or a belief etc etc or even what ppl think about those things... no, in those forums, the ppl with those interests in those things or those who deal with those problems just post and are accepted and understood.

How come so much slack about DID I wonder?

Yes, Ego State Disorder is not defined as having entire personalities. More like what's along that continuim from "oh darn, I missed my exit"....to DID at the end of the spectrum. Ego State D/O is well described in a book called "People in pieces : multiple personality in milder forms and greater numbers", by Alan Marshal. A review states, "These "ego states" differ from the alters of MPD in not being able to take full control and the nominal personality does not "shut down" or lose time. He does appear to portray them as having distinct consciousnesses running at the same time but distinctly from the nominal consciousness. "

It's an intriguing book for anyone interested. em

And to confuse things even FURTHER!!!.....there has been some talk of moving borderline personality d/o to Axis I, alongside PTSD. This is because many people believe it has many similarities to PTSD, except that the duration of the trauma is longer. The end result is the differing symptomology. They will have to rewrite a LOT of text books if that change occurs! :-) em (sorry, got off topic!)

SweetC - I always make that mistake - it should be DD NOS! Thank you for the reminder! em

You know what? I think I have heard about that ego state thing. It reminds me of psychosynthesis, which my T just told me about this summer. Have you heard of that?

I tend to agree with the idea that borderline is a trauma-related disorder. And I think it would be good for people diagnosed with borderline to have it considered as such, because it might reduce the stigma attached. From what I've read, it sounds like borderline often involves a similar idea to the ego states thing you're talking about, as well as dissociation for some people. I think some people would probably diagnose me as borderline, and I know that what you said about the continuum rings true to me. I'm far from being a multiple, but I am defintely somewhat fragmented. And I am dissociative, a LOT.

Sounds like you've done some interesting studying, and right in the same vein as my interests. (I'm a psych student, and I'm planning on specializing in trauma once I get to a PhD program).

Angela (SC)

-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-

I couldn't agree with you more, Sky, on all counts.

-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-

I'm guessing the lack of belief regarding DID may stem from two issues 1) doubters of recovered memories in general - see below and 2) the hard to fathom-ness of it (new word I invented it I think!). It's just an extraordinary concept, that some people just can't open their minds far enough to accept something so foreign?

The recovered memory backlash is addressed in The Courage to Heal in the chapter entitled Honoring the Truth. I'm not sure the recovered memory debate is a healthy topic for discussion here...perhaps another thread or another time, since it can become a heated discussion. I'll let someone else make that determination.

Just wanted to put those general thoughts forward as to why DID gets picked on so much. em

i think it comes from a lack of understanding mostly. i thought it was a bizarre concept, and totally not possible at first, too. then i met someone that i held a high opinion of and found out they had been integrated. after that, i read up on it like crazy. and i think the more you study DID, the more you understand it and it no longer seems so bizarre.

as for recovered memory, yes that is a heated debate indeed. but i don't think that's the major problem when it comes to the arguments over DID. i think the main issue is that, without being informed about it, it's hard to fathom.

-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-

There is a difference between the defined meaning of "ego" in "'ego' state" or 'ego'tistical' or 'ego' as Freud conceptualized it.

The "ego state" of ESD refers to alters, the ego of "egotistical" refers to a person/self who is self occupied, the ego of Freud refers to the socialized "self" which exists between the id and the superego.

An "ego state", certainly, is not usually conceived of as a "negative" thing. It's simply a part of self -- a part with it's own habits, purpose and meaning -- might be good, bad, or neither.

M

Here's a site I found on both Dissociative Identity Disorder and ego states...

Here's the link if anyone is up for reading it.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.guidetopsychology.com/mpd.htm>http://www.guidetopsychology.com/mpd.htm</A>

I believe this site was written my a psychologist.

I think.

<font color=red>~</font color=red><font color=blue>S</font color=blue><font color=green>u</font color=green><font color=blue>n</font color=blue><font color=green>d</font color=green><font color=blue>a</font color=blue><font color=green>n</font color=green><font color=blue>c</font color=blue><font color=green>e</font color=green><font color=red>~</font color=red>

<font color=blue>"Never react emotionally to criticism. Analyze yourself to determine whether it is justified. If it is, correct yourself. Otherwise, go on about your business."</font color=blue>

<font color=black>Norman Vincent Peale</font color=black>

Hi Sky
I don't post often, but I couldn't resist posting on the topic of a DID board. I'm with you, Personality Place is good place for them to post. But, if it would benefit those, gosh I can't finish the sentence.

I am doing ok. Thanks for asking. Hope all is well with you.

"If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance."
-George Bernard Shaw - (1856-1950)

Yeah and my point is? It doesn't have anything to do with being dissociative IMHO.

You had written:

"...ego state is quite different, to me. The ego acts a bit differently as a whole than a "complete" personality... the ego is a defined aspect (and usually a selfish, often negative one lol)."

In most contexts, as I said before, "ego" does NOT refer to "a selfish, often negative" part. I'm not sure why've you have come to that conclusion.

As for dissociation, ego states exist irregardless of levels of dissociation, but ego state theory, as it has been developed for use with DID and DD, is intricately tied to the study of dissociation. It would be useless to discuss ego states, in most clinical contexts, without discussing dissociation. Why exactly do you think ego states have nothing to do with dissociation?

This discussion has to wait until I find my brain ok?

But in the meantime I think I can say, yes I understand that those who rely upon the term ego states as you do, cannot possibly discuss them without discussing dissociation.

However, it is quite possible to discuss dissociation without discussing ego states, if one doesn't hold to your beliefs.

NP let's just put this on hold until I wean off this med I am reacting to, ok?

After reading fgh and lizzieetc's posts, I've had a change of heart.......... Everyone is at a different place in their healing and it was very cold of me to neglect the reality of those with DID..........Maybe instead of a DID forum, maybe name it Dissociative Disorders...........

I don't post here often and I am not sure why I reacted so negative.....If that kind of forum would be helpful and healing, then I am all for it.. Hope you guys get the forum you need........Am glad you put your two cents in.........


"If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance."
-George Bernard Shaw - (1856-1950)

Hello. I came back here to see what might of been put here. I did not mean to start of fight. Ummmm are you DID too? I was just wondering. If you are, are you the main one or a part? We learned not to tell any body. One of us told someone when it looked like it might be very important they know and they used it against us. So only one person, a relative, and one very very close friend, and the doctor knows. (and that mean person we do not see ever again.

fgh!!! there is a forum for DID now! hopefully it's a place where you can post and not have to explain everything!

hey i'll meet you there. will you make some more cake?

Angela (SweetCrusader)

-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-