Dissociative

Welcome. fgh I think you might want to post in the Personality Place forum instead. It isn't quite right ... as a personality 'disorder' but it won't be so bad with ideas of abuse like here might be.

Don't let some ppl scare you off. There are lots of very nice, safe ppl here, and DocJohn won't let anyone hurt anyone else.

Come back and post often.

<font color=blue> meditation is a true way to connect to the Source </font color=blue>

My T says I have this. I don't have MPD... there's not more than one "me." Nothing like Cybil (MPD movie character). But I do repress feelings and am out of touch with them. Three months ago I couldn't even manage "I'm happy." I couldn't verbalize feelings at all.

No, you did not scare me buuuut your post got kind of hard to read. I just read all the posts buuuut came back to this one be cause it is easier.
Thank you. I got a welcome from DocJohn and asked if he wil have a place soon. SOOOOOOO may be I will wait and see.

Some people just do not understand buuut they think they do. I do not want to talk about D.I.D. buuuut the stuff of my life. Things people just will not get in their lives.

I hope we can talk more soon.

Hello. I think we can talk more some where too. I do not want to sit and talk about D.I.D. but life. BUUUUT since we are not like, public, it might not be the same. People do not understand and want to spend all the time telling us or asking us things. Boring. I can not go to another site be cause here is where we are. And here is where we are because one of the grown ups says it is safe enough.

SOOOOOO I might wait to see if DocJohn makes a new place, OORRR I might go write in the other place for personality like someone said be cause I do not like it here in abuse. May be you will come there too?

ok

some people stupid like people talk about be out like people talk about make everybody know and everybody understand and nobody will and it is stupid stupid for to go say it every where and every time. i am hating it. i want to bang wood. i wish i was a tree chopper. i wish smacked wood into stuff like chairs. i bet could met chairs good.

what has happened now that has you down about this?

i know most people don't understand, but i promise that it really is possible to for people to learn and understand more. there was a time when i thought multiple personalities was just something people made up to be on talk shows. and then there was a time when i thought it was "like Sybil," as someone mentioned before. the thing that made a difference to me was that someone i cared about told their story. after that, i started reading books on it and i learned that it wasn't at all what i thought.

it is possible to help people understand. and it is possible for a person who doesn't understand to gain some knowledge and compassion. i'm living proof of that!

on the other hand, if it puts a lot of stress on you to be so open about it and put yourself out there, you have to remember to take care of yourself, too. because taking care of you is more important, than anything.

it sounded from your post like you were having a hard time. i'm sorry!

just so that everyone knows the update: i haven't heard anything back from DocJohn yet about having a DID forum. maybe he decided against it?

take care, lizzietc!
((((((hugs))))) <--- only if hugs are ok with you

Angela (SweetCrusader)

-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-

Oh nothing happened. Thanks. We just don't all see eye to eye on this. Well, on anything for that matter. It is confusing. He maybe doesn't believe in DID (Dr. John, I mean), lots of people don't. Even in the mental health field. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure we have one or two at least in our own system that don't belive in it. It's ok.

oh, ok. i'm glad to hear it's all ok.

i have a question, and i hope this doesn't bother you (cuz i don't mean to bother you!). so was that someone else in your system who posted that other post? are there several of you posting under the screen name lizzieetc? i wasn't sure if it was that or if you were just in a drastically different mood. you sounded very different and that's why i was concerned before, and checking if you were ok or if something happened. but in this post, it sounds like you're saying someone else posted who disagrees with you.

it's hard to tell when all i have to look at is the words typed on a computer screen!


-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-

Hi Yes With all the buzz about D.I.D. I checked to see what DocJohn had as a definition within his Disorders area and his comments imply that those with D.I.D. only [bold]BELIEVE they have multiple personalities.

I am sorry to read this. And when I am not so depressed, I will try to find the data that PROVES the physical differences... and then I will have to find another member like Dexter to see how to import the data. I will advocate all I can for you all.

I have P.T.S.D. from an disabling accident/injury 17 years ago and I dissociate especially when confronted with authority figures. (Because those in authority didn't do anything to protect me, nor did they get me any medical help once it did.)

It is many professional's, and scientist's beliefs that those with D.I.D. not only have higher I.Q.s (proven) but may be utilizing parts of the brain most ppl do not!

Never the less it is a pretty safe place, and there are plenty of members here to see that it stays that way.

Oops sorry if I used words that are too big for all of your system.

<font color=blue> meditation is a true way to connect to the Source </font color=blue>

Yes, several of us communicate with the outside world in one way or another - all using the same name. On the internet, we use a handle of some kind that ecompasses all of us. In this case, lizzieetc (i.e. lizzie etcetera). In 3D we use the body's name. Anyhow yes, the individual that posted the "interesting" wood chopping post is not me, nor are a few of the "lizzieetc" posters. I suppose it would be rather confusing for you. For that, I am sorry. Your question did not bother me.

Perhaps if DocJohn spent a day in this head he would amend his theories. Perhaps not.

Please use whatever words you are most comfortable using to express yourself. We have lived in this world for a long time. We have figured out our own ways of doing things. Besides, anyone who's too young to read the big words doesn't come here anyway. Thanks for your concern though. Unless you were making fun of us.

No no not making fun of you... not doing that.

But I think it was one of us here that was waiting for a reply from John about a D.I.D. forum and you might be right ...it might be slow coming.. but then most everything here is in your head if you hold to that kind of thinking.


<font color=blue> meditation is a true way to connect to the Source </font color=blue>

I actually agree that DID is a BELIEF.

Sure, there are physiological changes that occur as "parts" shift, but there are physiological changes associated with mood change, too. With DID they are more pronounced, but that doesn't mean there "are" different "persons" within one body.

I think DID forums tend to be isolating of those with DID... they are safe, but not conducive to people hearing opposing ideas and being challenged.

I'm getting confused, but it's all good.


<font color=red>~</font color=red><font color=blue>S</font color=blue><font color=green>u</font color=green><font color=blue>n</font color=blue><font color=green>d</font color=green><font color=blue>a</font color=blue><font color=green>n</font color=green><font color=blue>c</font color=blue><font color=green>e</font color=green><font color=red>~</font color=red>

<font color=blue>"Never react emotionally to criticism. Analyze yourself to determine whether it is justified. If it is, correct yourself. Otherwise, go on about your business."</font color=blue>

<font color=black>Norman Vincent Peale</font color=black>

I think having a DID/MPD forum at psych central would be a big mistake. There are many forums here already. I am sure those with DID could find one or several, should they choose, to post in.

Thumbs down to a DID forum here.


"If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance."
-George Bernard Shaw - (1856-1950)

Sky - Can you post what you are referring to regarding DocJohn not believing that DID exists? This is what I just found on his FAQ of Life document:
--------------------------------------------------
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT MULTIPLE PERSONALITY DISORDER (MPD or DID)?
I seem to see a lot of people online who suffer from (or believe they suffer from) this relatively rare disorder, multiple personality disorder (MPD), now known as dissociative identity disorder (DID). First, MPD/DID is a rare disorder in the general population, as noted. However, many people use the online world to connect with others who also suffer from relatively rare medical or mental health conditions, so the fact that I have come across many people suffering from this problem online is not so significant in and of itself.
The research confirms this is a real disorder. Whether it is being diagnosed more often because clinicians are now more aware of it than ever before, or because people are more comfortable seeking treatment for it remains unknown.

Treatment of this problem is rarely simplistic. Many therapists' goal in treatment is to re-integrate all the personalities into the singular person which exists before them. For many people, this is an attainable goal with a lot of hard work in therapy and a determination and desire to change.

For others, this is not a realistic goal because they have become dependent on and can't imagine life without the other personalities. For these people, management of the existing personalities may be the purpose of treatment. Learning to cope with the blackouts and loss of memory may be helpful, as well as the possibility of integrating lesser personalities into others so a person is left with only a few main personalities over time.

There is no medication used to treat this disorder specifically, although medication may be prescribed to help certain anxiety or depressive symptoms.
----------------------------------------------

In saying " (or believe they suffer from)" to me simply means they have not been diagnosed by a professional (and the word "believe" is neither bold nor capitalized). For instance I may believe I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder, but until seen by a professional diagnostician, the label doesn't officially apply. I think the rest of his write up clearly states that DID does exist. Of course, there is a LOT of info on this site, and I only found this one article and stopped looking. So if I missed the article you are referring to, let me know. Thank you.

Emmy

RF - Good thing we all get an opinion, huh? Here's mine! since you asked.... ;-)

I love the idea! When I look at the DSM almost all of the major categories are listed here somewhere. The two that stand out to me as missing are Dissociative disorders and Substance Abuse issues. I think both would be great additions to this site.

Em

Hi,

The distinction is often made that those with DID do not have multiple personalities, but believe they do. That is what I was referring to.

I started out confused.

M

That "distinction is often made" only by people who choose to believe that DID is a belief. The diagnosis does not say "this person believes they have mutliple personalities." The diagnostic criteria for DID, as listed in the DSM-IV say: "(A) The presence of two or more distinct identities or personality states (each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self." This does not say the BELIEF in the the presence of...

The goal is not to make a place for those with DID to "isolate." It's not like there would be a password for only those with DID to be able to enter the forum. Do those of us who post in self-injury "isolate" there in order to avoid opposing beliefs? How about the PTSD forum? Depression? This is a diagnosis recognized by the APA, whether you choose to "believe" in it or not.

The reason I think a forum for DID would be good is because it would provide a place specifically for posting about DID. Over and over again, we see people posting in the "survivors of abuse" forum, saying they have DID and would like to talk about it, but there is no forum that seems to fit, so they are posting here. A LOT of logistical issues go along with having DID, and it would be a GREAT benefit to some of those suffering from DID to be able to discuss it. Because of the nature of this disorder, those issues kind of come in a category all their own. Although DID shares certain characteristics with other dissociative disorders, there are a lot of things that people with DID face that you and I do not. Such as having to share a body with other people, and therefore not having access to controlling your body all the time. Also, losing time while another alter is in control of the body. These and more issues can be very frustrating and difficult for people with DID, and a forum where they could discuss it is something I have seen many people indicate that they could get some use out of.

Your opinions are welcome here, of course. And so are mine, countering them. I do not see how creating a forum for DID would be any different than having a forum for depression, for eating disorders, for PTSD, for survivors of abuse, for self-injurers, etc.


-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-
<div class="foot">(Edited by SweetCrusader on 08/02/04 09:39 AM.)</div>

Hi,

I was thinking of instances of those who study or work clinically with DID, who make that distinction.

It is an important distinction, as it clarifies, in many ways, that while a DID patient may feel fragmented, they present as a single entity. While the DSM says several personalities exist, it does not say that each personality has, for instance, different hair/eye/skin color. However, many DID patients feel those perceived differences are "real" and many DID patients feel the body is not "theirs". Again this is different from the clinician's (and society's) belief that the DID patient is one person in one body.

Belief in personalities as the personalities are perceived by the patient is not necessary to "believe" in DID. I believe that DID patients are fragmented -- I don't believe they are truly separate entities within one body. Truly separate personalities can function on their own, DID systems contain introjects, helpers, children, etc in an enmeshed psychodynamic system, none of which would exist without the others.

M

Ok now I undestand.

<font color=red>~</font color=red><font color=blue>S</font color=blue><font color=green>u</font color=green><font color=blue>n</font color=blue><font color=green>d</font color=green><font color=blue>a</font color=blue><font color=green>n</font color=green><font color=blue>c</font color=blue><font color=green>e</font color=green><font color=red>~</font color=red>

<font color=blue>"Never react emotionally to criticism. Analyze yourself to determine whether it is justified. If it is, correct yourself. Otherwise, go on about your business."</font color=blue>

<font color=black>Norman Vincent Peale</font color=black>

Ok, I can see where you're going with that thought. The alters do often percieve physical differences that are not there. Some physical differences do exist, though, actually. The data show that different alters often have different eye prescriptions, for one example. I don't see why the various alters couldn't exist without the others, though. They aren't even aware of eachother's existance at the beginning of therapy the majority of the time. In the beginning, only maybe one alter is aware of the others. It takes work to gain co-consciousness. And the alters, to the best of their knowledge, are complete and separate individuals. In fact, that is required for the diagnosis to be made. A personality is a fairly stable pattern of relating to the world and the self. Each alter has their own personality.

-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-

Interesting discussion...

This is what I think... I think to know how the personalities are connected to one another -- and I believe they are VERY connected to one another, you'd have to know why and when each alter appeared.

I think, in every instance, an alter is created out of the needs of the host or another alter. So the personalites "need" each other... their very existence is dependent upon each other's experiences and reactions.

Now... at the time most DID patients enter treatment, the personalities AREN'T aware of each other... it's that amnesia that often motivates treatment in the first place. But to say that the personalities are not aware of the connection between them is different than saying the connection never existed, or does not exist.

For instance, if an abused child splits off a traumatized, opposite gender alter, the child will still be a girl, let's say, and not abused. The alter will be male, with traumatic memories. The girl may be completely unaware of the boy, and the boy may have a varying awareness of the girl... but the WHOLE reason the boy is a boy is to differentiate "him" from the actual "real" victim. That's what I mean by enmeshment.

I think healthy personalities (or personality traits) develop with nurturance and freedom and there is no perceived need to have amnesiac or other barriers between "parts". The personalties in DID are created to protect and guard and so are very different, in their creation, development and purpose.

Boy, I hope all that made sense, I am coffee deprived at the moment... M

That did make sense. Thanks for clearing that up. I do understand the connections, and I also understand the need to know how the alter came to be in the first place. I see what you're saying now. It just wasn't clear to me in your other post. I thought you were going in an entirely different direction.

You seem to be fairly knowledgable about DID, more than most people I've met. Have you read up on it?

-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-

"People who suffer from this disorder[b] believe[b] they have multiple personalities which then take on a life of their own within the individual (perhaps reinforced by the belief). " You can find John's quote listed if your click on [i]disorders[i] (above)[i] Dissociative Identity Disorders [i] and then on [i]treatment.[i]

I don't care if he sits on the fence on this. He is an internet guy, not a clinical psychologist. And he does have the word BELIEVE in bold.

<font color=purple>[i]don't kill the messenger[i]

I happen to disagree with this viewpoint. Also, it is no longer considered rare, especially with more and more ppl being traumatized and not obtaining professional assistance. (Hence the onsite teams at, for example, NYC with the rescue workers...)

<font color=blue> meditation is a true way to connect to the Source </font color=blue>