Unable to find work due to self expression

I have a lot of tattoos, including my hands, knuckles, and neck. I understand that most professional places will never accept this form of self expression and i knew that when I got them. However, I'm a bartender or I work in retail. Those are the jobs I apply for, not jobs that I feel will deny me employment due to self expression. It sucks to not be able to work because I made a personal choice. I hate that because I chose to decorate my skin, people see me as a criminal/gang member/trouble maker (I'm not any of those, I promise). I also feel like it has something to do with the fact that I'm a woman. And I've actually been told that by interviewers. I got these tattoos for me and now I'm beginning to regret them... And I really shouldn't be.

If you have past jobs in bartending and retail, I imagine you can get references that will help you find another job in a bar or retail establishment that would not frown so hard at your tattoos?

I would check out parts departments of motorcycle dealerships or repair shops, http://www.manchesterhd.com/jobs.asp or bars and night clubs in college towns, http://www.libbysbarandgrill.com/ or see if you could find help from a group that helps others with tattoos (who, unfortunately are from prison/gang backgrounds), http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...job-prospects/

For whatever reason, even my letters of recommendation don't help. I never thought getting them would make me hate myself for making my own personal choice. I think I'm just going to start going to the junkyards and taking VW parts, modifying them, and selling them on eBay. At least tinkering with parts will pass some time for me. I do miss the social interaction of actually working though. My self esteem has taken a huge dive because of this situation thank you very much for the link though. I will definitely check them out.

Unfortunately, Libby's is about an hour from where I am. And the Harley shops, maybe. But I don't know anything about bikes. I would love to work on VWs but I have no experience other than messing around with my Jetta. I love bartending; the money is absurd. And the tattoos actually help. They're a conversation starter. But for whatever reason, there's a bout of super judgemental business owners.

Also, I find it disturbing that the article you posted mentioned people with Bachelors degrees who are living on the street solely because they have tattoos. Very, very sad.

Is relocation an option? I don't know about your current area, but I'm sure you'd find less judgmental people in another city/town with a more diverse and accepting culture.

Have you been told that it's your tattoos that are keeping you from getting the job, or is that an assumption you're making? Maybe something else is at play?

Go to Volkswagen dealers and see if you can become a sales person, sell yourself as being a fan of VW's, maybe bring in a piece of your art, tell them you could get the "working class" buyer?: http://www.tulleyvw.com/PrivacyPolicy or, just do the rounds to the dealerships and see if you could get in their service or parts department as a "gofer".

Why not get a job at the junk yard, take some of your pay in VW parts and being allowed to use their "mail" capabilities free to mail your eBay stuff to customers who buy it :-) Maybe see if you can be paid to make a really big "sculpture" for the front of the junk yard?

You're right you shouldn't have to regret it......but of course instead of a rational open minded society that allows for people to express themselves and pursue their real potential with some encouragement. We have a shallow judgmental society in which you either conform or suffer the consequences like ostracism and bullying.

Can you cover the tatoos? maybe some jobs would be ok with you having them covered......otherwise there has to be somewhere that will hire people with tatoos but I realize finding work in general is really difficult and frustrating.

It depends on the business owners and the actual tattoos you have. At the hospital where I work, one of the male nurses has only a few tattoos on his upper shoulder so you cant see them, while another male nurse has several tattoos that are visible along his arms. He also has dyed streaks in his hair and only a few piercings. His tattoos though are light-hearted, sentimental and a few are just cool designs.

Perhaps it's the nature of your tattoos. On the other hand, it's more than likely that some business owners were more offended than others and the tattoos weren't a major deal to them. They may point it out because depending on the nature of them, it's self-explanatory. Could you try to cover the tattoos up as much as possible when you go for an interview? You could wear a decorative scarf, button up a shirt, wear long sleeves but I'm not sure how you could cover up the ones on your knuckles.

The past four interviews I've gone to have gone like this;

"hi I'm morgan! I'm here to interview with ______!"
"okay I'll go get them."
*interviewer comes over and says*
1) "got a lot of tattoos huh?"
2) "oh those tattoos are going to be a problem"
3) "we actually don't allow tattoos at this job"

The fact that they blatantly tell me it's my tattoos is disgusting. And they assume I'm unintelligent. I interviewed at a salon product distribution store and the woman was like "oh we'll you don't have a whole lot of experience with setting up displays" and I was like "oh you mean planograms? Yeah I used to do those at CVS, where I worked for five years and ran the entire makeup department"

It's plain ignorance.

Way to hit the nail on the head haha. You're so right about ostracizing those who don't conform to societal norms. I've tried to cover my tattoos but the ones that I'm unable to cover are the ones people have the most prejudice against. I have a martini glass, a rose, and a spider web on one hand (to show my love for bartending... I don't even drink) and on the other, I have a tattoo of the Pokemon my cat is named after (Luxray, if you'd like to see what she looks like), and my knuckles say "MUST HAVE" with the V as a diamond on my ring finger (my fiancé and I have matching diamonds). None of my tattoos are offensive. No swears, no naked ladies, no death or dismemberment. I mean, I have an eagle tattoo dedicated to my father that takes up most of my forearm.

The tattoos themselves aren't offensive. But my geographical location (I can't relocate because my fiancé has a REALLY good job here and he shouldn't leave it) is definitely against this kind of thing. I live in a state primarily populated by older generations and they just don't understand. I used to get every single job I interviewed for and now I have to ask their tattoo policy before even going to the interview because if I don't, it's a waste of everyone's time

I haven't thought about the junkyards. We only have one that's really close and it's always really old men that work there haha but I wonder if they would hire me just to work the front desk. I don't know about winter though. I'm not sure if they're open when there's five feet of snow on every car.

I've definitely debated the eBay thing. I have so many VW parts laying around the house. All I need to do is modify them. A gauge cluster goes for $60 on eBay. I know how to change the colors of the lights so the display is pink/blue/purple/etc. So I could sell it for almost $100 after replacing all the bulbs and such. It's just a pain to get the parts because I'm so broke haha but even if I sell one cluster, $100 buys a whole lot of parts at the junkyard!

pardon if i'm being weird or whatever here, but have you tried being proactive about it, telling them that you are not adding any more tattoos, this was something you did when you were younger, and show them documentation that you don't have hepatitis from the ones you already have? This stuff might be a consideration in bartending jobs, where you have to get dept of health tests. It might not be stuff they can legally ask you, but it doesn't mean you can't tell them, and it doesn't mean they can't reject you if they suspect it - as long as they don't ask you, they're legally in the clear.

If I told them I wasnt getting more, I'd be lying. And you get hepatitis from scratchers, not from reputable shops that allow me to watch them open sterile packs and the entire set up/breakdown process.

It might seem unfair, but that's the reality. When we're young, we often rebel against societal norms. The lengths we sometimes go to to establish an identity, though, can haunt us for a long time. The reality is that image does count. An employer justifiably looks at it as "will it help my profits?" That is at the core of capitalistic economics in the U.S. If an employer believes that its customers will be reluctant to trust his business, or buy from him, etc., if the business' representative (you, the employee) has some characteristic that might turn-off customers, they justifiably won't want to hire that person. Perception is everything, and it doesn't matter that it's unfairly judgmental of people in general to assume that a woman with a lot of visible tattoos is probably involved in a socially unacceptable lifestyle. There is no way to change the perceptions of society, and business knows that. So, when they look to hire someone, especially at a time of high unemployment with lots of available workers to choose from, they will always pick the people they think will best draw and keep the trust and loyalty of customers.

You may ask friends who have tattoos what kind of work they've been successful in finding. There very well could be employers that don't care about tattoos. Perhaps behind the scenes work - like warehouse, or factory work, Another option, would be to look into getting at least the visible tattoos removed.

Then these aren't decisions you made in your past, which is what I inferred from your post. And the smell of pot probably isn't helping any. get real.

Haha your little quips are so silly. You are part of the problem. And if all you're going to do is be rude and not contribute anything intellectual to this discussion, then you probably should just go away.

This is not a place for negativity. This is a discussion. Go bring someone else down because we don't need the attitude.

Most of the people I know work in tattoo shops (which is why I'm so covered) so they have nothing to worry about. My personal artistic skills are nowhere near as good as theirs and women aren't always viewed as equals in that industry. I'm a bartender and in my personal experience, tattoos are a conversation starter. It gives people something to talk to me about. Unfortunately, laser removal of ANY of my tattoos is not (and never will be) and option. Not only is it excruciating but it costs about $3000 to have a baseball sized tattoo removed. It's not worth it. Plus, it leaves scar tissue like crazy so my skin will never look the same again.

I knew the negative effects of my choices before I made them. I accept most people's idea that I am not "normal". But this is normal TO ME. It is my choice to decorate the body I have been given. The job thing sucks, absolutely, and I get that most people don't accept it.

But "most people" aren't the people I want to deal with and I do not apply to jobs that I think like clean cut people (I tend to apply to lower end bars, not only because of my tattoos but because you make more money in dives than in fancy martini bars). I do not apply to hotels, corporate chains, or anything along those lines. It's just something upsetting... And also classified as discrimination.

well.. I don't think it rises to the level of discrimination, which is limited to race, gender, disability, etc. (which are things you don't choose). Very similar to your having made a choice to express yourself through tattoos, employers are entitled to select employees based on their own standards. I guess I'm lost as to why it's so upsetting, since said you knew going in that you would be dramatically limiting your opportunities by getting tattoos.

And I also don't think tattoos rise to the level of "not normal." You seem very 'normal,' you just chose to cover yourself in permanent visible body art, which does not fit in with a large chunk of employer standards. It's not about them being 'prejudiced' as you said in an earlier email. It's about employers making intelligent choices about responding to societal norms in order to draw customers. Those who choose to walk in the opposite direction of societal norms are the ones who are excluding themselves.

I'm all for inclusion with respect to race, gender, disability, etc.. but if a healthy person decided they had a preference for chopping their legs off, it would be unreasonable for them to then accuse society of discrimination and prejudice if they couldn't get a job working on a construction site, being a flight attendant, or a volleyball player. Unlike those born or injured that are unable to walk, we're talking about somebody who willingly choose to limit their opportunities. Throw an ailing economy and high unemployment into the mix, and their already limited opportunities get even more limited. Has nothing to do with whether they are a decent person.

I just don't get why you feel so wronged. .

I think of it like this; I do not drink alcohol, I do not do drugs (my views do not classify marijuana as a drug but I NEVER integrate marijuana in to work situations - my personal and professional life stay seperate). So say I go to an interview. I'm up against a clean cut woman with no tattoos. We have the exact same qualifications and experience. But she is an alcoholic. She will get the job before me, based only on appearance. My experience and qualifications don't mean anything to the employer. I've won national awards for writing, graduated high school a year early, and went to college for mass communications. I am TIPS and TEAM certified and (not to float my own boat) I'm a master at mixing new drinks. I have a bartending school certificate, have never been arrested, and have one single speeding ticket. But none of that matters. Can you see how I feel wronged by this?

Also, the discrimination part, I can argue that yes, you CAN choose your gender and you CAN choose your religion and some would argue that you can choose to be gay. I chose to get tattooed.

It just bums me out. I could have a masters degree and still hear "well I don't think you're qualified..." when I clearly am.

No.. I still don't see it.. because you elected to get all these visible tattoos, while fully aware that it would limit your opportunities. You're putting yourself up against an alcoholic, but are you saying the competitor announced to the potential employer that she's an alcoholic? I can't imagine him hiring her if she announced it. If she's hiding it, then of course he's going to choose her if she's equally qualified, because he won't have to worry about customers who might be turned off by the multitude of tattoos Thing is, that appearances do matter.. and being clean cut goes a long way toward attracting the interest of an employer. And of course, if he's aware she's an alcoholic and he sees your tattoos, he may very well pass you both up, because he knows that there will be someone adequately qualified eventually show up that fits the standards he is entitled to choose to have. No one is 'obligated' to hire you. You don't have a 'right' to have a job. Whether or not you maximize, or harm, your opportunities is entirely up to you.


That's a straw man argument. Only way that logic works is if an employer is prone to hiring Protestants but refuses to hire Catholics, or in your case, is hiring people with an equal amount and type of tattooing that is colorful, as opposed to plain black ink. Even then, the only kind of discrimination that qualifies as employment discrimination is 1) race; 2) color; 3) religion; 4) national origin; 5) gender; and federal law includes disabilities, assuming the disability would not interfere with job performance. Tattooing and sexual preference is not included.

You put yourself in a position to limit your opportunities, with your eyes wide open. You said that you take issue with people making assumptions about you based on your tattoos, where they assume you're into drugs, trouble-making, gangs, etc.

It is basic common sense. The walks like a duck, talks like a duck thingy. You very well may be a totally upstanding citizen, educated, experienced, etc. But if a person wears nursing scrubs, won't people generally assume that's a nurse? You chose to permanently identify yourself with a sector of society that employers tend to, and have a legitimate right, to avoid.

And you've got a choice now. You could get the tattoos removed. So... you aren't into the hassle and expense.. okay.. then don't complain about the effect of choices you made, because you're effectively choosing to continue to limit your opportunities by hanging onto the tattoos.

I think I see a chip on your shoulder, and I'm wondering if it isn't causing you more trouble than the tattoos.

If you would like to fund my tattoo removal, than sure! I'll get them lasered! Unfortunately, it is people like you that don't really understand. The inability to appreciate individuality is really upsetting.

I never said that my hypothetical job interview competition announced her problem with alcohol. But if you know alcoholics, that substance effects work, family, and health. So eventually, after that woman showing up to work half in the bag, do you really think the employer wouldn't say to themselves "well ****... Maybe I screwed up"

You judge people based on only appearance, you are just ignorant and that is the problem.

We are told to conform to what society tells us. And if we do not, we are ostracized and excluded from what "normal" people get to do. You say that I seem normal but then argue that I'm not because I do not fit in to society. You say that you can't choose gender or religion? Transgenders? You absolutely cannot say that they can get jobs as easily as a person born as a man. They chose to change themselves but if an employer doesn't hire them, it's discrimination. I was brought up catholic but believe the teachings of Buddah. That is also a choice. A catholic business owner is more likely to hire another catholic rather than a Buddist.

You're just not understanding my side of this because you probably don't interact with people like me. I'm willing to say that you would be one of the people that stare blatantly at heavily tattooed people and don't see how that's rude.

But it's okay. Not everyone can understand our personal choices. I understand the ignorance of society.

And no matter what you say, it IS discrimination and it is NOT fair.

You stereotype people and people like you, my dear, are the problem.

And how would you know whether I appreciate individuality? I do. Very much. However, employers have the liberty to hire people that meet their standards. You are individual, whether or not you have tattoos. And just so you know.. "people like you" is a vast generalization not conducive to productive conversation.

I didn't say you said that. I said that, in order to make a logical point, that you very well may not be interested in.

He very well would say "If I'd known she was an alcoholic, I wouldn't have hired her," and tells her she's lost her job. But that doesn't mean he'd then say "I should have hired the tattooed lady." It's unlikely because he already decided you would not be an asset to his business, despite your education and experience.

"Only"? Really? You're making yet another vast generalization about me, then you're calling me names ('ignorant') based on nothing other than your own self-serving assumptions, and then you illogically conclude that I am representative of the problem? Now, I do judge people. That is my responsibility. I judge people based on a lot of different things, and it depends on what the situation is. I judge repairmen on whether I think they are trustworthy. If a friend does something that breaks trust, I may judge that friendship as repairable, or not. I judge my children's teachers on whether I think they are adequately preparing them for their future. But you make it sound like if someone is unattractive, then I think badly of them. Now that is really unfair!

Wow. There are some serious issues with you inaccurately quoting me. I did not categorize a person with tattoos as 'abnormal.' You're doing that. You do seem relatively normal. Tattoos do not make you 'abnormal.' You can be very individualistic without tattoos. You elected to use tattoos to individualize yourself, perhaps not realizing that rather than individualizing yourself, you identified yourself with a sector of society that the majority of employers avoid.

Again, you are saying I said things that I didn't say. You don't choose the gender you're born with, and the percentage of people who change their gender is relatively small - much smaller than the tattooed. And the majority, if not all, of those who change their gender were born with a medical condition that has only recently become better understood. As for religion, of course that is a choice.

I think that's a pretty outrageous assumption. I have never, ever been asked about my religion during any part of the application/interview process. Never. As long as your religious practices do not interfere with performance of your duties, I cannot imagine anyone's religion (or not having a religion) ever being an issue. And by the way, I study Buddha. Love the philosophies.

True enough, I'm not surrounded by heavily tattooed people. I don't know why they would be offended by people staring. Covering yourself with artwork begs for others to stare as they try to see what it is, doesn't it? If I didn't want people to look at me, I sure wouldn't get tattoos. That said, I work at a large pediatric hospital. One of the nurses on my floor is a gay man who has a facial piercing and a good number of tattoos. He is also one of the most fabulous and professional nurses I've ever seen. Funny thing is, the parents who come thorough here often have very professional backgrounds. Lots of physicians, lawyers, other corporate types. I don't know what they think of this nurse when they first see him and he's taking care of their child - but by the time they are discharged, they love that guy!

I understand personal choices. I think you don't understand that your personal choices may have consequences that you don't like, but they are very reasonable consequences.

No, it's not discrimination in the legal sense. It's not unfair. I will pick whitefish and avoid Salmon. Is that discrimination? I won't by an American-made car. Is that unfair discrimination? No. It's choice. Just like employers are entitled to choose whether they hire someone who has decorated their body in a way that sets them apart and identifies them with a problematic sub-culture. You knew you were stepping outside societal norms when you did it, and at the time you thought you were okay with it. Now that you've decided the price is really high, you may be regretting something that is hard to undo.

YI'm not stereotyping you. I'm just telling you how it is. And blaming me for something you did to yourself is not going to help you.

I now realize that you aren't interested in discussion. You feel entitled to a job, and you're angry that employers prefer someone not 'heavily tattooed.' But it has nothing to do with discrimination or being unfair. If I had a business, I cannot imagine wanting to hire someone 'heavily tattooed,' regardless of their qualifications, because I would fear it would cause customers/clients to go on down the street because they would legitimately fear doing business with the sub-culture you have chosen to identify yourself with. It has nothing to do with who you are, your value, whether or not you're qualified, or whether or not you're a good person.

But anyway, I won't spend any more time attempting to reason with you, because everything I say gets distorted.

Take care.

You just proved my point. My qualifications have no appeal to any employer based ONY on the fact that I have tattoos. And you keep talking about professional careers like I'm trying to be a lawyer. You just don't understand.

Judging a book by its cover. Did no one learn that as a child?

It shouldn't matter what I look like as long as I can do the job I have been assigned to do.

Bottom. Line.

I thought the reason you had the tattoos was to express yourself. Tattoos allow you to get attention without even saying a word, isn't that what you were going for. People are going to stare at you because you have the tattoos. If you didn't want the attention and stigma you would have gotten them in more hidden areas.

Head shops that sell rolling papers, hookas and that type of stuff hire people with tattoos, or record shops.