[Strive4health]

Yes, it is 3 am and I am up contemplating.

I have noticed a strong trend from people to view those who are unemployed or underemployed as less than human. It's as if people expect us to be working to death before they consider any of our efforts to be useful.

There are more things in life than getting a job or working overtime or making sure I can workworkwork! myself to an early grave. But tell that to most people and they act like you are wasting your time. My husband and I have hobbies, and both of our families act like we are robbing a bank! DH likes to meet with people for games, and I like to volunteer or entertain myself with other hobbies.

Without my hobbies, I'd be miserable. If I didn't have a garden I wouldn't have anything to look forward to for a harvest-- or to eat. My pets keep me entertained and I'm not as depressed as I used to be when I didn't have them. My husband has even noticed his mood is better due to my pets. They only take 20 minutes on the weekend for maintenance and that's it. I have lots and lots of time during the week to look for jobs, apply, and go in for interviews (when I am lucky with a call-- ha!). But I am expected to not only have a 40-hour a week job (with the occasional OT), but a second part time job on the weekends and some evenings. If I have time to relax, well then what the heck am I doing wrong??? If they think that's bad they definitely do NOT want to know how often I use the potty

I wish people would remember those who are unemployed and underemployed are still humans. We want to have other things going on in our lives to remind us that not everything is terrible or disappointing. Why don't people get that?

[hvert]

It really is a weird feeling, not having a job when everyone else does. I am not working or looking for work by choice, but I feel like I have to have a cover story to explain my choice.

I hope your garden is going better than mine is so far this year!

Yes, this has been going on for years. I haven't held a real job for a dozen years or so. But even before that it was like if I wasn't working evenings & weekends, in addition to my regular 40 hours per week, I just wasn't cutting the mustard, as the saying goes. Now, I've aged into retirement & I do have sort-of a volunteer position. So that expectation is no longer there. But I'm sure it's as bad today, if not worse, than it was when I was working. It's as though, if you're not running around like the proverbial chicken with its head cut off, you're just a waste of skin! It's become a badge of honor...

[regretful]

I had a job that I enjoyed and felt like a much more complete human being then. I had a good work/life balance, or so I thought...now I'm not working in the career that I enjoyed and I'm feeling like a virtual and real nobody...

I have a job and I know I am blessed to have it. But my heart is no longer in it and a lot of times I wish I didn't have it. But I have no choice but to work so I do. I am too old to start over in a different job. So I must just deal with it.

[StrongerMan]

Yes I hate this work culture we have. It is wage slavery. Exploitation for profit. And those with cushy jobs stand by and watch all the slaves thinking... I'm glad I'm not one of them anymore. And people consider you a leper if you aren't part of their clique for whatever reason. But I am a single guy. There's no significant other to help me out while I'm AWOL from the chain gang. So I have no future. All my friends have abandoned me... the leper.

[Strive4health]

Originally Posted by StrongerMan

Yes I hate this work culture we have. It is wage slavery. Exploitation for profit. And those with cushy jobs stand by and watch all the slaves thinking... I'm glad I'm not one of them anymore. And people consider you a leper if you aren't part of their clique for whatever reason. But I am a single guy. There's no significant other to help me out while I'm AWOL from the chain gang. So I have no future. All my friends have abandoned me... the leper.

It's really tough out there. When you are unemployed you really learn who your real friends and family are. You learn a lot about people and what others consider to be a person. In fact, I'd say when you're unemployed and when people are constantly making suggestions, treating you like a leper, etc. it says more about them than it does about yourself.

We do live in a wage slavery economy and many companies are incredibly short-sighted. Today I had a conversation with a supervisor and I told her how I am doing the activities I have because right now, it's what gives me a sense of purpose and reminds me it's okay to be a person. She thought there was nothing wrong with that. I wish more people could appreciate these things like her.

I'm not looking for a job wholeheartedly at the moment because I'm still in school. But I do know what I have to compete with and I would rather know my self-worth doesn't have to do with having a job. It's nice to have money, yes...but money can be gone just as fast as one gets it.

[hvert]

The suggestions are the worst part! I lost a very good friendship over that. A friend kept throwing work my way and started to get angry when I declined. No matter how many times I told him that I wasn't interested, he kept doing it. I got to the point where I just didn't want to deal with his judgment anymore. I'm living off my own savings, not anything else. I don't see why it's a moral issue if I choose to take some time off.

[Hellion]

Of course you are still human if you don't have a job, unfortunately in this society there is a good chance you'll run into being treated as less than human for not having a job.

[Nobodyandnothing]

Originally Posted by regretful

I had a job that I enjoyed and felt like a much more complete human being then. I had a good work/life balance, or so I thought...now I'm not working in the career that I enjoyed and I'm feeling like a virtual and real nobody...

Regretful, I know just what you mean

[StrongerMan]

I've "lost" friends too. Not completely, per se, but we've sort of lost contact.. drifted apart. I don't make friends easily so I hung on to some who could be very judgmental at times. The most recent job I did have wasn't quite good enough for the white collar crowd I was hanging with. This one friend made some disparaging remarks about it in front of new acquaintances (female) of ours. He did this twice while I was trying to explain what my job entailed. Excuse me, but I'll be the one to explain my work. But he felt the need to chime in. Then I lost that job and not a peep of help from him. Then again, I never really asked him for help. That's another problem of mine... feeling such shame from being unemployed or underemployed that I don't act proactively to better my situation. I am a person who values authenticity. I just can't bring myself to use or accept help from other people to get ahead unless I know them really well and I feel safe in doing so. But that is what much of the job search comes down to... who you know or pretend to know. Yes, I too, have taken an indeterminate leave of absence from the work culture. But it is a lonely place to be. The longer it goes on, the darker it gets.

[Strive4health]

Originally Posted by hvert

The suggestions are the worst part! I lost a very good friendship over that. A friend kept throwing work my way and started to get angry when I declined. No matter how many times I told him that I wasn't interested, he kept doing it. I got to the point where I just didn't want to deal with his judgment anymore. I'm living off my own savings, not anything else. I don't see why it's a moral issue if I choose to take some time off.

I think when people do that, they see they're just trying to help out. When we turn down their offers, they're thinking "what's her problem? Can't she see I'm just trying to help her"? We want emotional support and acknowledgement for our predicaments, but our friends and family see giving us suggestions as their form of support.

It's weird you told him you weren't interested and he kept throwing them at you. I'd get frustrated, too. You're using your own money so I don't see why it was a problem. It goes to show how people think of the unemployed. We must all just be "lazy" people living off society or something I'm actually living off of my savings and extended unemployment I was eligible for. People take an issue with that, but they don't seem to get I lost my job because my company got rid of my job not because I got myself fired.

I also believe I making good use of my time but no one will hear of that. I volunteer, I am raising my gpa with finishing up school and I am learning job skills. I attend networking events when I can, so it's not as if I am some couch potato who doesn't treat myself like a person. There's just not a way to get people to understand that, I suppose.

[Mustkeepjob32]

I myself believe I'm not that great of person because I'm not working. Both of my brothers have jobs and are successful and no matter how hard I try, I don't seem to keep it together. Intellectually, I know that I'm no better or worse a person than anyone else just 'cause I don't have a job.

[Strive4health]

Originally Posted by Mustkeepjob32

I myself believe I'm not that great of person because I'm not working. Both of my brothers have jobs and are successful and no matter how hard I try, I don't seem to keep it together. Intellectually, I know that I'm no better or worse a person than anyone else just 'cause I don't have a job.

My BIL has a great job and seems to have it all, too. It's hard when you see people around you have these great things in life...but recently someone here at PC told me people may have it together, but they don't have their crap together. Appearances aren't always what they seem and we have to remember that.

[pudica]

feels that way.

It's also bad the other way around when people find out you're doing well and they all become so much nicer. Feels really disappointing. Just makes you realise how fake people are cause you know they weren't that nice before they found out.

[Strive4health]

Originally Posted by pudica

feels that way.

It's also bad the other way around when people find out you're doing well and they all become so much nicer. Feels really disappointing. Just makes you realise how fake people are cause you know they weren't that nice before they found out.

That's where I say ditch them. I have no friends, tbh. I would rather have no friends than have friends who don't respect me. My self-respect is more priceless than diamonds at this point.

When I am 40, I want to be able to look back at this time and feel proud of myself for sticking by my principles and treating myself like a person. When I'm 50 or older and if our economy goes through another recession like this (which it will) I want to be able to give advice to the younger folks more substantive than "hang in there."

If this is true, then I'm not a person and have never been one. I find this to be true but whether there's a correlation or not, I can't be certain.

On a related note, I used to be fat and ugly and was treated as something less than human by the average person. Now, I'm considered "very attractive" and "the right size" (notice, the word isn't "skinny) and now all of a sudden I'm a person worth spending time with on dates. People are extremely superficial. To the point that it sickens me.

Also, I found it odd that my "friends" always discouraged me from seeking employment. As did my parents for many years. So I find that very confusing sometimes.

[-jimi-]

You instill an idea in the population, then slaves will monitor slaves. That has been done before in different situations. I wish people could break out of the preprogramming. It's not normal to work yourself to death, there is NO HONOR in it, and the only people benefiting from it are rich people who will become richer.

People seriously need to wake up.

[Strive4health]

Originally Posted by -jimi-

You instill an idea in the population, then slaves will monitor slaves. That has been done before in different situations. I wish people could break out of the preprogramming. It's not normal to work yourself to death, there is NO HONOR in it, and the only people benefiting from it are rich people who will become richer.

People seriously need to wake up.

You are right. I am fighting against the idea of working myself to death or working myself to so much stress it affects my health and my marriage. BTDT, NGDM! (not gonna do more!) I'm slowly working myself to learn how to not allow a stressful work situation go home with me...I will be seeing a therapist soon and I plan on addressing these issues with her.

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

If this is true, then I'm not a person and have never been one. I find this to be true but whether there's a correlation or not, I can't be certain.

On a related note, I used to be fat and ugly and was treated as something less than human by the average person. Now, I'm considered "very attractive" and "the right size" (notice, the word isn't "skinny) and now all of a sudden I'm a person worth spending time with on dates. People are extremely superficial. To the point that it sickens me.

Also, I found it odd that my "friends" always discouraged me from seeking employment. As did my parents for many years. So I find that very confusing sometimes.

That is terrible, but yes you're right people as a general population are very superficial. It's strange your friends and parents have been discouraging you...do they not think you are capable?

[Little Lulu]

It depends on what you (not them) allow to define you. Employment is certainly one of the most common ways people create an identity. But not having a job can also define a person. I've known unemployed people who were so wrapped up in finding a job that they seemed to be drowning in misery over it.

So maybe it has to do with feeling OK with who and where you are in life ... I have a SIL who does not work but defines herself as a mother to her adult son who has schizophrenia. I have a neighbor who gets disability but seems to defines himself as a helper - he does lots of nice things for people in the neighborhood. My husband retired early and doesn't apologize for spending his time as he wishes.

One thing is certain, whether we are employed or not and no matter the external appearances of someone's life, we ALL struggle at times.

[birdpumpkin]

I've been a stay-at-home mom the last 10 years and have felt okay about it. It's as Little Lulu says. I think it just has to do with how you feel about yourself. I try not to worry about what other people think of me. What's important is how I feel about myself. I try to follow my instinct, and right now I am wanting a part-time job when my son goes back to school simply to get me out of the house and around people for a bit, plus we could use the extra money. But that is a decision I feel within myself, not based on what anyone else has said to me or what I think others may think of me for not working. Stay-at-home moms kind of get looked down on. They're not the superwoman mom who works all day then tends to the kids, makes dinner, cleans house when she's home. It seems that is the woman that gets respected over the one who chooses to be home to tend to the domestic things and children only. Stay-at-home moms only get room and board for their pay, too.

[Perna]

I'm retired and think it is more about other people who work not really having the time and wherewithal to be able to connect with someone who doesn't. Spending 8 hours sleeping and 8 at work, there's only the other 8 to eat, drive to/from and do all the chores associated with working and living at the same time. It is just a different orientation so the few of us who don't work don't "make sense" to them. I had not realized until I got much older (in my 60s) how different it really is being middle aged versus older and how the problems and perspectives change at different stages in life and that phrase we tell children, "you'll understand when you're older" is really true for all the stages. A working 40 or 50 year old can no more truly understand my life than that child can. We see other ways of living but don't really understand them. If someone else comments negatively on your current lifestyle and struggles, feel sorry for their ignorance rather than bad about yourself.

[Quanticia]

Depends on the person, I believe...if you live off your economies and are an active person in general, that's cool. I'm still 27, living at my parents' house, and without much work to show. I'm living as a shut-in, because of my economics mainly, and feel like a nobody. (It's not that I don't want to work, it's that my current psychology combined with the huge economic crisis sort of ruin me at the moment ) I don't feel I can be a totally real person until I get a real job.

[Mustkeepjob32]

A great part of our identities are associated with our work life. I don't think that is wrong in and of itself. However, when one is not working for whatever reason, that shouldn't make us feel any less of a person.

[Strive4health]

Originally Posted by Little Lulu

It depends on what you (not them) allow to define you. Employment is certainly one of the most common ways people create an identity. But not having a job can also define a person. I've known unemployed people who were so wrapped up in finding a job that they seemed to be drowning in misery over it.

So maybe it has to do with feeling OK with who and where you are in life ... I have a SIL who does not work but defines herself as a mother to her adult son who has schizophrenia. I have a neighbor who gets disability but seems to defines himself as a helper - he does lots of nice things for people in the neighborhood. My husband retired early and doesn't apologize for spending his time as he wishes.

One thing is certain, whether we are employed or not and no matter the external appearances of someone's life, we ALL struggle at times.

I think the problem is people wrap their identities in what they do for a living. It's strange because if one day you were an accountant and got laid off, are you no longer a person with an identity? Suppose this same person got a job as a financial analyst later on. Is who they are someone entirely different? I am not one who likes to tie who I am to what I do for a living.