Disagreeing with fire at will policy

I have been on the other side of the hiring table and I have to say that just flat out... it is hard to pick. Most of the time all the candidates have something promising to give. And for me personally the interview doesn't mean much unless you completely blow it, which usually means something like you were a poor speaker for a job that requires a good speaker.

If you don't want to be fired at will you should look into government work. Even if you aren't part of a union most of the time gov'ts culture is to try to keep people if they can.

At one point in my career I thought I was getting fired. I saw in the minutes of the manager meeting that they were preparing an advertisement for my job (I wasn't supposed to have access to it). I called the boss and told him I wanted to know what was happening... (without mentioning what I saw) to my shock he was very supportive and told me he valued me and would help me get the position. He did. I was amazed. So I do feel that if you are a good worker gov't does see its role as helping to keep people employed if they can.

Honestly, I wish they would just implement a basic income already for all citizens. Other countries, such as Denmark, are already doing this and the quality of life is much higher there than it is here.

Instead of giving out services like SSI to disabled people, I would fix this whole issue by giving the amount SSI pays to ALL US citizens. Those that want a career or want more than their basic necessities will work anyways and there would be less competition in the job market as well as less pressure to find a job ASAP to get your needs met. Problems like those talked about in this thread would be a non issue.

Sometimes, I think I should become a politician. If I didn't find excessive socializing so draining, I would probably get into politics.

I couldn't agree more. That way everyone would have a safety net and be able to work to buy the things they want. Of course there would be critics saying no one would work then, but I do NOT live a comfortable life on $733/month. Trust me.

Gr3tta, I don't like the way it holds me back either. I know from experience that I have been fired from jobs due to either hospitalizations or possibly my panic attacks and would have been left with nothing...I have no support from my family either so unfortunately this is a legit fear.

Hey, I would love that but, I expect it will never happen and I also wonder, would employers start paying you less because you had this basic income. So now they would pay you 30K per year because that is all the market can bear... but with this income they could pay you 25K and someone would take the position.

Think of the money that would be saved processing appeals and social applications and enforcement.

I just think we really have to start righting this ship that is the USA and doing these things. I only hope we can.

7upThe next best thing would be mandatory unemployment benefits for anyone who is "fired at will".

I also must add that I think it's extremely cruel for an employer to fire an employee without just cause, knowing that their lives (and possibly the lives of their children) depends on their income. This is what capitalism is all about-the endless amount of money you can make supersedes the need of others to survive.

Actually I work for non profit and they do it. I think that is flat out insane. And way too often they fire the person for absolutely no reason. I am happy to say that this time someone got let go from a boss and the other boss said well she doesn't work for you anymore but we will still pay her and find something else for her to do. But since there has been no announcement for weeks.. I am wondering if they told her to look for something else... and will just make it like she chose to leave.

It does depend. I think that within the next 20-30 years, many careers that aren't STEM might become obsolete thanks to technology and robots having the possibility to replace many entry level and general labor jobs. If this happens, I could see demand for STEM based jobs going up.

Also, not trying to hate on the older generations, but I think that when the baby boomers all retire from politics and generation X takes over, I see the possibility for a lot of things to improve or at the very least change significantly.

Then again, I have always been an idealist and I have more of a strategic way of thinking so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Well I agree with you. I have always said that the baby boomer generation is what has destroyed this country and I think Trump getting in is evidence that significant numbers of them are too old or dead and didn't vote. They were known as the "me" generation. So I think it is entirely fair to call them out on that.

The baby boomers destroyed this country? That's a stretch. Comparable to those who say that millennials are spoiled and entitled. As a baby boomer I always find myself defending millennials. The issue is much broader than calling out a certain generation.

I have a feeling that in the future, the basic income is going to become a necessity. As lower income jobs become automated and higher education becomes more expensive, it's going to be that, or a growing number of our citizens are going to be poor, destitute and without healthcare. Unfortunately, there aren't enough politicians in office that either understand this, or if they do understand, actually care.

I worked for a company 18 yrs. The hourly employees had the UAW for a union. I was a hourly employee. The first 90 days you have no union rights but they take monthly dues out anyway. When you are over your 90 days then you have a union contract given to you and these are the work laws. It eliminates the fire at will law for you. Government employees city,county,state and federal employees do have unions. ACLU is the federal government union.

I'd worked as a building custodian in a shopping centre for 17 years, thankfully we had a decent union and for the most part, good business agents (Teamsters Canada)..the employer had a definite classist attitude towards us hourly workers. As a shop steward I'd witnessed this in contract negotiations....having a general manager say that the employees didn't deserve a health plan etc.
My last GM was constantly trying to find a reason to fire me, was so petty and passive aggressive that he was disrespectful and mean to my wife in a very public manner with all of the other employees around.
Now, as a steward, I never went beyond speaking to things outside of the scope of the CBA . the disrespecting my wife caused me to leave that for another job that was offered.
the person that poached me (she took the photos at my wedding), was also the person that fired me for no cause...she disliked that my coworker and I would complain up the chain of command about others not pulling their weight.
During my dismissal-by ambush, i was compelled to sign a waiver, so I'd have no legal recourse.
so yeah...even if there are checks and balances in the system,unscrupulous people find ways around them

I worked for a very prestigious (snort) hospital in Southern California for almost five years. Right before I was due to go on my first vacation in five years, and right before I would have been vested in the company retirement plan, I was "laid off" due to my position being "eliminated."

In hindsight, the very first week I started working there, I could see there were going to be problems, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why I was being singled out. I concluded that they just didn't like me, which is painful.

They chipped away at my sanity and my self confidence, until I almost felt like I was having a nervous breakdown for the entertainment of my superiors.

So yes, I think that "at will employment" benefits the employer more than the employee. It is a sneaky way for employers to get away with treating their employees poorly.

Aww I'm sorry that happened. I agree, they basically can treat employees poorly and get away with it. And I agree, when an employer lets an employee go for no reason or a very trivial reason like you said then I take it as a sign they just never liked the employee. Everyone is human and not everyone will not like everyone. So it makes sense that quite a few firings or lay offs are due to personal conflicts rather than work related issues. Sad but true even though some people may not believe that is true.

Agreed. I think I am targeted constantly because I am not liked. My dad was always targeted and we were poor because of it. My brother has not had a long work history. So when it came time for me to decide what to do with my life I did things that I thought would insure that I wouldn't have to deal with it... but it didn't work. No matter what.. it all comes down to if you are liked by people. Or in other words if you do what other people want you to do. Whenever there are discipline procedures for people in my profession who don't work with others (have their own business) it is always.. always.. because they won't *play* the game. Not because they were really in need of discipline.

I do think though that the ultimate way to end this is to insure that the number of potential employees are reduced. So it puzzles me why anyone would support HB1 Visa holders or immigration or in anyway a corporation getting to use cheap labor. Capitalism or a free market assumes that the market is finite. Employers are getting to cheat by expanding the labor market.

Or it comes down to people starting businesses out of school. The thing is... reasons people don't do this is they don't know what to do. But I think particularly the millennials are doing this and I think soon people are going to do it more often.

Yep I agree. I feel like if someone truly did something wrong, most people are not afraid to point it out so they will tell them. That's why I feel like employers who fire employees without explaination or a vaque dumb non-fireable reason, especially if it only happened once, then it means that person was just not liked to begin with. I agree, I've been targeted too so I know what that is like. I hope it changes as well.

^This.

I've noticed that there are more and more people getting fed up with the way employment works and are starting their own businesses or becoming freelancers.

There have been more innovative startups in the last 10 years than there has been in many years before it.

Then there's the fact that the internet makes it easier than it's ever been before to start a business.

I plan on starting a company in 2 months and I am putting everything that I can into it because I'm fed up with these employers not giving people who actually need jobs a fair chance.

While my business will be mostly online, if I ever get to where I'm hiring, I will prioritize hiring people who have been through hell like I have, yet have become strong from it and I would prioritize hiring people that actually need the job and unlike most employers, I would actually treat people who work for me with respect and strive to help guide them to the best of my ability.

Call me an idealist but there is a lot that needs to change and I hope that I will one day be able to do something about the problems that bother me so much.

I completely agree. There are times where I've considered freelancing myself. Not committing to one job for long since no job is truly permenant. From what I hear, it wasn't that long ago where people picked a job after college and stuck with it for life. Now people switch often, largely due to the emplpyers. Since I was let go once without warning or a good reason, I have come to trust employers and even coworkers less. I had to actually call up a former employer once to ask why all calls to assist in substituting stopped.

At first I thought it was a technical problem but they just told me I was not wanted anymore and that I was done. Very unprofessional in my opinion and I feel bad for anyone that has had the same kind of thing happen. I am like ypu, if I had my own buisness, I would treat my employees way better and with respect.

What's funny is that a couple of weeks ago, I wrote a college essay about a similar topic.

I did the research for it and I found out that apparently, in 2016, roughly 48% of people age 18-24 consider themselves a freelancer. In fact, there is actually a freelancers union here in the U.S that is advocating for better benefits and rights for freelancers.

Between freelancers, so many innovative tech startups, and the amount of people starting successful online businesses either selling products or doing some kind of internet marketing, I foresee a dramatic change in the way these employers operate in the next 10-20 years.

These employers are becoming obsolete and they know it. It's time for them to make a choice: adapt or die.

I agree. It won't be long before things change for people and the way employers are. They will eventually be forced to realize that they can't just fire people for the slightest reason or no no reason or else they will crumble.

I hope that is the case but I fear their lobbyists will get more HB1 and 2 visa holders or find other innovative ways of selling out the american worker.

I know. Hopefully a change can be made but yeah there will always be people fighting against it.

My son was fired from a job and we have no recourse because it was "at-will"...

He was fired after a dog attacked him at work (while he was doing his job, with the dogs). It required a visit to the ER, stitches in his arm and on his face, and now he has a permanent scar on his face.

He received a letter after 2 weeks telling him he was let go as of 2 days after the incident.

Yes. I am angry.

I don't blame you.

Here is an example of a company with ethics. Several years ago my niece was attacked by a dog at work. She worked at an animal shelter. She was part-time so didn't have any insurance. They paid all of her medical bills and welcomed her back when she could return to work. She continued to work there for several years after that.

Wow that is terrible. The company obviously didn't care.

Well I am glad the company she worked with had good ethics.