[BamaSurvivor]

Here's some information on drugs/alcohol that I've recently learned at a seminar... Hope you all enjoy and find something you may not have known before.

Drug of Choice in 1967 in order of which it was used:
1.)Alcohol 2.) Marijuana 3.) Cocaine 4.) Crank(meth) 5.) LSD 6.) Quaaludes 7.) Glue 8.) Designer Drugs

Drug of Choice Now in order of which it's used:
1.) Alcohol 2.) Marijuana 3.) Methamphetamine 4.) Cocaine 5.) LSD 6.) Rohypnol/GHB 7.) Inhalents 8.) Exstacy "X"

Marijuana:
THC content is 9%, but can be as high as 20%.
One joint today equates to about 10 to 14 joints in the 1960's.
Typical dose is 300mg THC.
Typical joint produces impairment equivalent to 0.08 BAL (alcohol level).
Produces dependance in 100,000 people in U.S. treated anually.
Contains approximately 426 substances in natural form.
Increases to over 1,000 when inhaled.
Distorts time and distance.
Slows reaction time.
Reduces ability to multi-task.
Decreases ability to respond to unexpected.

3 BRAINS IN ONE:
-Cortex
New brain
Makes us rational mammels

-Mid Brain
Personality
Perception

-Hypothalamus
Food, Fluid, Feelings, Flirt, Flight, Fight
-----
Serontonin: Bodies natural sedative, calming effects, sleep... Marijuana works on this area most.

Epinephrine/Norepinephrine: Natures natural stimulant, anger, anxiety, violence, arousal of the central nervous system, adrenaline, stimulates Flight or Fight... Meth works most on this part of the brain.

Endorphins: Bodies natural pain killer, opiate like response, Euphoria... Opiates work most on this part.

Acetycholine: Memory, Movement Skills, Responsible for new learning... Marijuana also works on this part of the brain.

G.A.B.A: Gama Amic Butryic Acid: Natural Anxiety Agent... Benzo (nerve pills) work most on this part.

Dopamine: Pleasure/ Reward system, Laughter, Euphoric Recall... Crack/Cocaine works most on this part.

P.I.P.: Responsible for Love, Brings males/females together. It only happens 6 times in a lifetime... Meth and cocaine work most on this part of the brain.

Psychoactive Chemical Use= Loss of Ability To:
P.I.P.-Lose ability to love
Dopamine- Lose ability to laugh, be happy, or have fun.
G.A.B.A- Deal with anxiety
Acetylcholine- Lose memory and new learning.
Endorphins- Pain increases
Serontonin- Depressed, lose ability to sleep.
Epinephrine- Lose Flight/Fight

This only happens after increased drug usage for awhile. After quitting your usage of drugs, it could take up to two years for all these feelings to get back to normal.

Alcohol and Addiction is and has been accepted unconditionally by the American Medical Association as a disease since 1956.

What does Recovery mean?
Accepting our disease and our prescribed treatment.
Taking suggestions.
Asking questions.
Accepting the answers given.
Adopting new attitudes and actions.
Gaining the ability to be honest.
Willingness to be open minded.
Letting go of the secrets that keep us bound in shame.

Summary:
Addiction is a process.
Recovery is a process.
Treatment is vital to the recovery process.
Addiction and recovery are both progressive and both take time!
They are both learned.
They both have to be trusted.
They both work.
One destroys life and the other saves and restores life.
Remember 50-70% stay clean!
Most importantly, remember... it's your CHOICE!

[(JD)]

WOW. I never would have guessed that LSD is still so popular! (Unfortunately.) I was just thinking about HOW much stronger today's roaches are over the '60's... and you gave me the answer.

[BamaSurvivor]

Glad the chart could be of assistance! I found all the information to be very informative and cool.

[downsolong]

Hi,

Unfortunately propaganda is rampant in this area of knowledge and many if not most studies are contaminated by politics instead of being good science. The scare tactics of the prohibitionists tend to backfire and people who have felt lied to can go to the opposite extreme of believing everything is harmless, that is also a mistake. I hope people will be very careful to research thoroughly and make wise decisions before taking harmful actions. Acting on misinformation hurts many people. http://www.drugwardistortions.org/

~Down

[BamaSurvivor]

So are you saying the information I posted from a siminar was wrong? From what I understand, it took them over a year to compile all the above information because they researched their stuff.

[JohnShaft]

The whole, "today's marijuana is much more potent" is definitely false. It's just a scare tactic to parents who experimented with it in their youth.

[misty]

Thanks for all the info Bama and Down.
I've always wondered why pot is illegal yet alcohol is not. Just makes no sence to me.
lrks

[BamaSurvivor]

I don't know that answer myself, lrks. Both are mind altering and vision altering when you get down to it... I remember trying to drive home drunk one night and and everything seemed a little blurry and things were going by so slow. Then one night I tried driving home high from pot. It had the exact same effect, just a little bit more intense because it made me so sleepy. Both are addicting, both cause visual impairment, both costs money, and both make you feel 'numb'... So I don't know why it's illegal. Will have to check into that.

[BamaSurvivor]

John, do you have proof that marijuana isn't more potent today as it was back in the 60's and 70's? The AMA seems to think it is more potent, I'm sure they've researched their stuff.

[shadowalker164]

Maybe the fact that pot, back in the day was the whole plant. When I bagged dope 35 years ago, it was the flower tops, and everything else. Being that the psychoactive stuff is concentrated in the bud, by including all the sun leaves it reduced it's power.
But I also know that growers have been cross pollinating and growing hybrids for years in the attempt to increase it's potency. All that work has not gone to waste.
Also, we never culled the male from the female plants to build those enormous buds.
There was no two hit reefer in the sixties, I would have remembered that.

Richard

[downsolong]

Bama,

There seem to be some contradictions in our information. The statement about marihuana potency raised a red flag for me, on rechecking my information from the above website I see that the dates are somewhat different. At the end about trusting "the" process of rehab. was perhaps more of a red flag to me as not only are there more than one way to detox and quit bad habits, many rehab. processes have not proven trustworthy at all.

Yet another red flag was your figures about how many "stay clean", I have read other figures on the efficacy of the very best rehab programs being less than 15% while 5% seems to be the very best the 12-step program produces which is less than the percentage of no help at all. The figures you have been give seem outrageous falsehoods, where did you get them? Personally I think over optimistic estimates of efficacy, hurt way more than help, as do exaggerated claims of harm due to psychoactive substances. People do best when they deal with reality instead of battling phantoms with incantations.

You might find the following sites explanatory of the reasons for the contradictions.

http://www.peele.net/lib/models.html
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3374
http://www.csdp.org/
http://www.harmreduction.org/index.html
http://www.drugwardistortions.org/

[BamaSurvivor]

So just because you believe in your links and web sites that have the information YOU want to believe, that makes any information anyone else puts relating to NA/AA/12 Steps wrong? I'm not trying to be rude or start a battle of wits, I'm simply saying I've seen several of your posts here in Substance Abuse forum and it seems anything you see related to 12 Steps is not correct. While it's fine for you to believe that, that doesn't give you rights to try making everyone else believe what you believe. Everyone has the right to believe in what they want to believe.

Yes, there are other rehab facilities that doesn't partake in the 12 Steps, I'm all for it... Whatever gets you clean and sober, I'm for it. I posted what I posted from a seminar I attended on drugs and yes, it was surrounded by the 12 Steps and people who believe in it. Most of the people I've seen in this part of the forum do believe in 12 Steps, which is why I posted it here for them to see.

I'll have to agree to disagree with you here.

[downsolong]

Bama,

While people are free to hold any opinion they want; when those opinions effect the healthcare of a nation and legal codes resulting in imprisonment and other losses of basic liberties at gargantuan human and monetary costs and contribute to the attitudes and mistaken beliefs that foster coercive abuse they must be held to standards that allow no falsification of the facts.

In this darkest hour of our peril we can continue to have faith in lies or work finding truth through the ongoing verifiability of good science.

I do hope you are hanging on and doing well and can find solace from your beliefs whatever they are at the moment.

~Down

[BamaSurvivor]

Down,

While I understand you have strong beliefs, and I respect those beliefs, I find that you seem to feel your opinions are the right opinions while others are not.
I still don't understand how you think the 12 Steps of NA/AA are some kind of cult. Please allow me to share something with you, straight from the book of NA/AA:

-What Is The Narcotics Anonymous program?-

NA is a NONPROFIT fellowship or society of men and women for who drugs had become a major problem. We are recovering addicts who meet regularly to help eachother stay clean. This is a program of complete abstinence from all drugs. There is only ONE REQUIREMENT for membership, THE DESIRE TO STOP USING.

No where in there does it say you have to pay a fee to be a member nor do you have to believe in God. It's a spiritual program, not a religious program. If it was a cult, there'd be WAY more requirements and they'd be severe, unlike the only suggestion they make to be a member, which is the desire to stop using. I've seen many atheist come into NA meetings who wondered what they were supposed to believe in. What were they told? Believe in anything greater than yourself that's positive. Your power of addiction was greater than yourself and now you need something positive to be greater than you. That does NOT mean God. Sure, some use God as their Higher Power, but some use nature, some use music, some use the group as their higher power because as a group, they help you when you're in need. The list is endless of what a higher power can be.

Hope you can understand this a little better now.

i have to chime in here. the weed today, is much stronger than it was years ago. no doubt about that. pat

[BamaSurvivor]

Right on that... Even in just the past 10 years, it's changed so much. I remember the first time I ever tried smoking weed, I was 10 years old. I was being nosey and found a joint in my sisters room and smoked it. It was pretty strong, especially for a 10 year old... But then I smoked weed again when I was 17, 7 years later, and it was sooo much stronger than it was before. More chemicals are added than back in the "old days". There's no denying that.

[Raynaadi]

So today I stood up for myself and other newcommers who are trying to stay sober with the help of AA. Today the leader was the epitome of everything Down hates. I had to speak up to keep the people who are desperate enough to get sober from getting up and leaving and never coming back and turning into crotchety people with drinking problems, who have lost all their hopes and dreams who refuse to see that there is the life they want if they truly want it.

Down, I am asking you as a human being, because I truly hope you have some humanity left, to PLEASE DROP THIS. If you care AT ALL about the people who come here seeking help to quit drinking and get some control of their lives, if you give a shread of crap about any one of us, please lay off and take your hate elsewhere. Does it really matter how we chose to get sober? In the grand scheme of things, does it affect your life in any way that people like me and Bama and countless others have some happiness in our lives? Do dislike us so much that you care nothing about what happens to us? Honestly, how does our believe in 12 step programs directly have any consequence to you? If you don't want to see people succeeding with the help of AA and NA, then DON'T COME HERE AND READ IT! If you don't have a problem with alcohol or drugs, why do you come to this board?? What is the point of lashing out at the one thing that has helped us to attain some happiness? You can't come to a support forum of you don't care about it's members. And you don't care about any of us. You have some resentment towards AA or NA and it's not our fault. I am sticking up for us and the rest of the people who come here seeking help. We don't preach program to everyone who comes here asking help about how to stop drinking. We believe in attraction rather then promotion. We do it because it helps US, not you. If you care anything about us, lay off. Take your opinions to a 12 step hating board, not here. Have respect for the fact that the entire world does not think like you and never will. Just stop.

Rayna

[BamaSurvivor]

((((((((((Rayna))))))))))

[Raynaadi]

(((((((((((bama))))))))))))))

[misty]

I thank you down for bringing your coments and links here. I have needed them. May not be popular opinion but I am grateful! Thank you!
larks

[Shaymus]

I think it is misunderstanding. Down is saying there are other choices to get off drugs/alcohol that work just as well. Instead of hearing there are other choices people hear their choice is wrong and defend it as it worked great for them. Which in turn makes him defend his position as ferociously. Everyone then gets defensive and no one is really willing to have an open mind anymore. I dont think Down's intention is to say that for you personally 12 steps cant work cause it obviously does. I think his real intention is that for others who come here and for who it hasnt worked that there are other options and all hope is not lost. I think having options is almost always a good thing. If 12 steps doesnt work for them are you unwilling to let people hear about other options? This isnt a 12 step only substance abuse forum.

[BamaSurvivor]

I haven't gotten defensive with Down, as I said in my post before, I know there's other programs aside from 12 Steps and that I respected his opinion, so long as he respects mine. I know Down means well by his posts, but some of them come off as pushy instead of a suggestive type way.

I know there's other programs that are equally as great as 12 Step programs, but 12 Steps has been the only thing that's worked for most us here. And how Down puts some of his posts, it seems as if he's trying to push his beliefs on us and wanting us to turn away from 12 Steps and be more "realistic", as he'd probably call it.

Again, I respect you Down and respect your opinions. I have nothing personally against you.

[Raynaadi]

I do apologize if I let my anger get in the way of the primary purpose of this forum. It was wrong of me to say what I said. I didn't think before I wrote, I just got frustrated that the subject had resurfaced, I got sensitive about what's improved my life so much and I lashed out. For that I apologize.

~Rayna

[shadowalker164]

Rayna…

Like you say in your closing tag, accept the things I cannot change.

Guys like Down are just who they are.

You spoke very eloquently about the program, and he has a built in retort for every point you make. You are not going to change his mind, and luckily, he doesn’t seem to be changing yours.

All of us have a propensity to stick with what seems to be working in our lives. You, I and many others here have a simple set of spiritual tools that works in our lives. I don’t know what Down has that keeps him sober, but I’m glad he has something. And I hope that late at night, all alone, staring at his ceiling his program offers him some comfort. We can BS about how we are doing here on this forum, we can convince our friends how happy we are, but we can’t fool the dark at 2 in the morning. I hope when Down is all alone with himself, he is pleased with what he sees in his mind’s eye.

Try not to let his rancor upset you. In fact when I am working with a guy and he has a deep resentment towards someone else, (justified or otherwise) I suggest he pray for that person. And not just once, but every day for a month. Pray that all the good things you might want for yourself, that they come Down’s way. It probably makes no difference in his life, but it does make a big difference in yours.

Richard

[Allan]

Everyone has their own type of program that works for them. What works for me might not work for others. Also what is working for me right now may have to be changed as time goes on. We cannot be set in stone on what works for us now will work forever. Like what was said, we can fool some of the people, but it is up, late at night all alone, then we know what is really going on. I, and others here, I feel are not here to impress others about the time we have or anything, we all are just one drink, one use away from being back where we were before. Just being honest with ourselves is the first part of our journey. I had failed many times trying to con my way through programs and all it did was hurt myself. I had to get honest with myself about what I was doing. I was not hurting anyone else by saying I was doing good and really down in the dumps. I was just hurting myself from getting healthy again. Best of luck to all and we all have our own ways of staying clean. There is no set pattern to what will work for everyone.

Allan