[Reticulous]

I'll try to be as thorough and brief as possible. Thank you in advance for any help, I am in desperate times.

I am a 30 year old man with a wife and 2 year old son. Our relationship is pretty strong relative to others that I can compare it to. However, she is ready to throw in the towel on our marriage because she doesn't feel like she gets any help from me. My personality has many similarities to AvPD though I think it can be limiting to put a label on ones personality. I've been diagnosed as having ADHD but I don't give that much weight except to help illustrate the similar tendencies that I have to someone who identifies with ADHD. A big part of the puzzle may have to do with the fact that, for the most part, I lack an ego. I don't identify with my thoughts, and in fact, I generally don't think in language, more in concepts and ideas. So I understand that, as far as a personality goes...nobody is home. This is a deep spiritual concept that many people have trouble coming to terms with, but I think for me it came naturally.

Being who I am, my role as a person and in my relationship is to be there for others in terms of emotional support. I don't judge anyone. Really. No judgement comes from me. Everybody must walk their path. So I see my role as a passive loving presence in people's lives. And so I've come to the problem, I'm passive. Extremely so. If anybody needs help with something, I will be there. It might take me awhile, and I might show up late, but I'm always willing to go to the ends of the earth for others. My wife is the opposite of me, which is why I thought we work so well together. She is the ultimate type A I am the ultimate type B. I can't manage my time to save my life. I fail at most things I do, and have low self esteem because I see the failure coming down the line (I used to be an extreme optimist, despite still failing, now I've just come to terms with it...sort of).

I was fired from my easy and impressive (but extremely boring) job last January. Since then, I've been in a bad way. I can't hold down a job, because I can't put myself behind something I don't believe in, e.g. desk jobs etc. I have been trying to figure out something to do with my life now, but I'm paralyzed by choice. I would have to do something that I can put time into, nurture, perfect, go deep with. Something like martial arts, furniture building, education... The obvious problem is that none of these things are something you can just pick up, and my wife is at her wits end with me.

Why is she at her wits end with me? Because I have been unemployed for 6 months this year and have done nothing productive with that time. I haven't given her a clean house and dinner on the table when she gets home. I have run out of time because it's an accumulation of the last year along with 12 years of "putting up with laziness".

All my problems have something to do with my passivity. I can come up with brilliant solutions to any problem, but I can't implement. I think about all the lovely things I can do, dream about potential, but never put anything into action. The only actions that I take in my life come by necessity. In other words, unless I am forced to do something, my natural inclination is to do nothing, just observe. Even when I tell myself that I have to get something done, I will procrastinate to the point where getting it done is nearly impossible. I have no will to prompt myself to do something I don't really want to do.

I need to change yesterday, what am I missing? How do I gain some will power?

[A Red Panda]

You said in your post, I think more than once, that you're always there to help people. So why aren't you helping your wife? How are you ever there to help anyone if you aren't even helping your wife with basic housework?

Sorry... it just sorta sounds like you want perfection to fall in to your lap, and that will never happen. I don't know what your qualifications are for work, but if all you are qualified to do is office work... then either go back to school or get a desk job, even if you hate it. You have a child to help look after.

Spend your time nurturing and perfecting a hobby. A lot of people do that because the reality is that most jobs aren't pleasant and the way that our job market is? You can't usually afford to be picky anymore.

I don't get how you are feeling like you aren't being forced to do anything. It sounds like you're going to lose your marriage because you aren't doing anything. It sounds like it's at the point of either A) Do something or B) lose your marriage.

Isn't your wife worth you doing something for? If she isn't... then perhaps it's a good idea to end the marriage.

Sorry. I know this doesn't sound like it's supportive, but I don't really know any other way to say any of that.

[Reticulous]

Thank you, I appreciate the reply. It's not that I can't get anything done, I do a lot around the house not to her standards of course. I see my role as providing her with love, for example, she has back problems because of her job, so I give her an hour massage almost every night.

But my problem is that I can't delegate the tasks on my own. If she or my boss or whoever doesn't clearly define a task list, I will likely fail. I would do better on say an assembly line rather than a sales job (which is what I was doing). But I'm not going to be happy doing something like that long term, because I'm not serving any higher purpose for myself of for others.

If can't find satisfaction in what I'm doing, I can't put myself behind it.

I understand that reality is most people just suffer through life hating their job, but my time on this earth is short and I refuse to spend half of my life a slave to money. I know that you need money in this world, and I don't mind bucking up and getting a ****** job temporarily, but I will never succeed at a job I don't like. I don't have the discipline for that, or maybe the tolerance.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Reticulous

. . .A big part of the puzzle may have to do with the fact that, for the most part, I lack an ego. I don't identify with my thoughts, and in fact, I generally don't think in language, more in concepts and ideas. So I understand that, as far as a personality goes...nobody is home. . .

In his book Disorders of the Self (sorry, no online version I know of)Marshall Silverstein characterizes Avoidant Personality Disorder as a condition of a "devitalized", unmirrored self.

In his framework I think it's fair to say I had a fragmented self (obsessive-compulsive personality disorder). My current therapist diagnosed me with PDNOS and DDNOS about 4 years ago. I'm getting far less fragmented, close to being "whole", maybe, but it hasn't been easy.

PD's are very hard to treat, as you also probably know -- especially when the therapist you happen to go to doesn't know anything about them, doesn't know how to diagnose them, doesn't believe in them, thinks their ordinary day-to-day counseling skills will be sufficient to "help" the person, etc., etc.

Are you able to get yourself moving in order to try to find a good therapist for yourself (and your marriage and your child)? If not, is there anything that you can think of that I could do to try to help motivate you?

[Reticulous]

Thank you for the great reply. I really appreciate you're offer to help motivate me, if I can find a way for you to help I'll let you know!

Marshall Silverstein characterizes Avoidant Personality Disorder as a condition of a "devitalized", unmirrored self.

That's actually a really good description of how I see my Self. And you are spot on in that it's a question of motivation. There is something subtle that I haven't figured out yet that keeps me from being motivated to take part in society. I feel like society is incompatible with my own values. Personality is not who we are, it's an expression of who we are, and since I've been out of balance, so has my personality traits. I feel like behavioral therapy would be the way to proceed, but I know the power is all in my hands, so I wish I could just change my perspective. I don't know, maybe I'm not supposed to, maybe I should let them go and walk my own path. But it really hurts to lose my son. If I choose a different path, it's going to likely mean me traveling to another place.

[Reticulous]

Well, the divorce is decided. So thanks for the help guys, I'll take it from here.

[A Red Panda]

Oh ouch, that happened fast since you started the thread

You could work on an assembly line for a temporary thing (I've done it too! Holy boredom Batman! I have huge respect for people who work in factories full-time.) Sometimes making money while you sort things out is just what is necessary. Get the crappy job to help pay the bills, and keep looking/planning out for something better. It's also why I suggested a hobby - it's something more meaningful to make life better while working at the crummy job.

It is nice to have the clarification that you DO chores in the house, just that they aren't up to her standards. That's a huge difference from what it sounded like in your first post. If one person is doing the chore the second person really has no right to complain - they could do it themselves if it's that big of an issue for them.

And FYI - I've spent two years of my life working at really s***** jobs. I learned a lot about myself from them, and they helped pay for things. It helped motivate me to get to the job that I wanted to have and I appreciate my job a lot more because of those experiences.

[Needsmet]

Wow, your story sounds a lot like mine.

I have talked to a lot of Avoidants from all over the world. All their stories are pretty similar.

Its a bit like that old TV show Dragnet. The names change to protect the innocent, but the stories are all pretty much the same.

Of course, I am not saying that your story, or anyone's, is not important. But this is one area where we are weak. We are told, and we think, that we are all alone. We are freaks, everyone else is normal and can have relationships. marriages, and friends. But we cant because we are messed up.

Well this is a lie!!

The truth is that there are a lot of people all over the world that suffer from this. The truth is that we can overcome and be successful.

Now having said that, let me tell you my story a bit.

I have had more jobs that I can count. I would say its in the 100's. I get bored easily. That had a lot to do with it.

That plus working for a paycheck is not what I am meant to do. In the words of the Keymaker from the Matrix, "We are all here to do what we are all here to do"

I am active outside of work, but I still have to work full time to pay the bills, but at least I have a vision and a goal.

My goal is to get away from having to work for a paycheck and work for God full time. I think for Avoidants, this is vital. Even more vital than with "Normals".

We need something to look forward to. A goal. The old saying is that if you aim at nothing, this is exactly what you will hit.

As far as your being out of work, on that one, Id say to get out there. Your wife is right!!

Get a job. I know you hate it. But you have to work and support your family. To not support your family is to be worse than an infidel.

Plus not working will only make it worse. The longer you are out of work, the more lazy you will become and the more rejected you are going to feel as a man. God created us men to be the providers for the family. When we don't fulfill our roles, things suffer,

I would recommend that you find a job, even a mind numbing one, then find an outlet for your wanting to help others and support them.

Your wife is at her wits end because you are not being the man and providing for your family. This is your responsibility. She can work too, but its your main role and responsibility to get out there and support them.

In addition to the financial support, it makes your family feel like you are fulfilling your role and taking care of them. To not do this is like saying that you dont care about them.

If you cared, you would get out there and find a job!

[Needsmet]

Originally Posted by Reticulous

Well, the divorce is decided. So thanks for the help guys, I'll take it from here.

What does this mean? She decided that she wants a divorce? If this is the case, you still love her, and your family was as strong as your original post says, then run back to her as quickly as you can and apologize.

Tell her that you were wrong and will get out there today and look for work. Tell her she is the most important thing in this world to you and you will do everything you can to prove it to her. Starting with getting a job. And even though you might hate it, you will stick with it because providing for your family is the right thing to do.