AVP vs SAD

I am trying to figure out what the difference between social anxiety and AVP is as they seem very similar.

Hmm, i never thought of such a comparison. For me anxiety is bashful in social circles that i feel are way above my monetary means. AVP to me would seem different. It would mean that you do not avoid people because of social class of economics but rather not wanting to be around people at all. So one would have to do with the haves and have nots and feeling bad being compared. The other would do with mentally not wanting to be around any other human beings. That is my take on it. hope that helps? tc

They are actually quite similar. AvPD is often seen as a more severe version of SAD, and I think there are lots of people who have both.

I read somewhere, though of course that was just one website's opinion, that the difference is that people with SAD see it as a problem outside of themselves that they can overcome, whereas people with AvPD feel it is a part of who they are.

It's not true that avoidants don't want to be around peope at all. They do long for connection. There is just that fear of rejection and feeling less than others that makes it so hard.

From what I have read, AvPD sounds like stereotypical social anxiety (excessive shyness and/or fear of embarrassment) coupled with strong fears of interpersonal inadequacy and powerlessness.

i am not so shy... i used to have bad social phobia, i still have social phobia but its not as present as what they said were the avpd traits...
for me i like to be around people, i like people in general, its just easier not to be around anyone... i go through different phases but its usually the same thing - just avoidance... but manipulation seems to play a role too, to try to control situation so that i can be around people sometimes but have specific outcomes so that i wont have to go through certain scenarios... but it is tiring to be so analytical and trying to be in control of whats going on all the time... so i tend to isolate most of the time - which i dont mind being alone... i like the calmness that is around when there is no outside influences to make anything bad happen... but i like to be with people, so its different than being afraid to be around people... like my social phobia used to do - its not so much fear with avpd i think... atleast not for me...

but i have to talk to a therapist about this to get into more detail because only recently psychologist told me i seem to have these avpd traits...

dunno if that explains anything, i have heard that avpd is severe sad too but i dunno.. kinda seems different to me... social phobia can sometimes not be present, atleast in my experience sometimes my social phobia was alot worse than somedays.. where as these avpd symptoms seem to ALWAYS be there...

People who have AvPD can have the symptoms of SA.
Those with SA will not have AvPD symptoms ruling out the avoidant traits misconception.

I think what non avoidants refer to as avoidant traits is more or less the triggered symptoms of depression.

I also have troubles to see the difference even when I know from authors and psychiatrists that they are different. They even belong to different Axis.
I think they are viewed as similar because they share the fear of the individual to be involved in social situations, groups activities...
My avoidant tendency comes from my social anxiety. But, in spite of my social anxiety, I can have deep relationships with people I feel comfortable with and give me confidence.
I think avoidants cannot have them or find it harder.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

It is hard to draw a distinct line between the two. In many AvPD groups I'm in on Facebook there have even been arguments about whether the two can be comorbid. Some believe that AvPD is a severe form of SAD, meaning they believe they cannot be comorbid. Others believe that AvPD is something that occurs after a lifetime of SAD, thus can be comorbid. I tend to agree with the latter.

I think of AvPD as the result of years of social anxiety. Most people with social anxiety believe they can get better. However, with AvPD (and most other personality disorders), the person believes that the trait has become an integral part of them. To be honest, recovery scares me because of this. I can't imagine not being avoidant, because I think of it as part of my personality by this point. But someone with social anxiety would likely not feel this way.

Avoidants tend to... well, avoid. Just like people with SAD, they long for social connection, friends, etc. However, we tend to feel inadequate. So, unlike people with SAD, we often don't even try to connect. Someone with SAD may or may not try. In short... a person who is avoidant can have symptoms of SAD, and may be diagnosable with both. But not everyone with SAD will be diagnosable with AvPD.

OSFED|MDD/PPD|GAD|gender dysphoria|AvPD

Avoidants find it harder. We can have deep relationships. I'm in one with my partner/fiance. However, it can take years to build the trust up to develop these relationships. Outside of my partner, I'm not really "close" to anyone else.

For those of us with AvPD, we may often feel our relationships aren't deep... even if the other person feels differently. For example, many people say they love me as a friend. I don't feel the same toward them, and avoid that feeling. I, also, frequently question how much they truly care, which leads to often avoiding them. This is a key trait in the diagnosis of AvPD.

OSFED|MDD/PPD|GAD|gender dysphoria|AvPD

Not necessarily. I can talk to anyone about anything - so long as I'm sure I'll never run across them again. It's ongoing relationships where I could be judged, and see and feel the judgement, that I can't tolerate. They are definitely separate things.

Everyone has individual quirks. It's easy to let yourself just roll yours into the diagnosis and assume everyone else experiences the same thing as you do. However, when one makes that kind of assumption, well, you know what happens when people assume... There are even extroverted avoidants. I can't even imagine how torturous that must be.

@ bronze owl. I dont think it's building up of trust. IMHO I see it as escaping and belonging.

Escaping the past, starting again and belonging; and that might happen as a diversion for a while but it's only natural to fall back and be overcome by AvPD.

We want to be loved and to give love, we want all that but that's also partly AvPD as that's what we're trying to escape and find somewhere new to feel at peace with belonging as a way to try and escape our AvPD past life.

Avoidance is our subconscious direction.

You sure that their avies?

The diagnosis criteria doesn't exclude them. Child abuse doesn't discriminate; anyone can be abused, unfortunately. Extroversion/introversion, to my knowledge, is something you're born with, rather than developing over time. So, for sure, it's possible.

Introverted people feel like their energy is drained off when they're interacting with people, and extroverted people feel like they can only gain energy by interacting with people and they feel like their energy is drained when they spend too much time alone.

So can you imagine - having to be around people when you fear being judged, when you have low self-esteem, when you can't interact with someone unless you're sure you're liked, which feels impossible because you think you're unworthy. (Wait, that might be my experience - perhaps there are avoidants that can feel worthy if they are liked; for me even if I am liked I still feel unworthy.) That seems like it would be impossible to deal with.

I think - trying to imagine myself in their shoes - that they can blend in a bit better. They don't stand out as extremely standoffish wallflowers. I'm sure they realize they have to keep quiet about their poor self image because it's off putting to people. Because they are interacting with people, they probably aren't as affected by isolation, maybe with less depression, but plagued by impostor syndrome. It must be horrible.

Of course, I'm imagining all that, because although I like being around people (when they leave me alone lol) I'm still introverted and it's extremely draining for me. Luckily, for the most part, I get to choose exactly how much or how little I'm around people, so I can keep it in balance, and usually I don't get caught out and swamped.

Sounds like something that Cantor would say.

Wouldn't that be the traits of a narc not that of an avoidant?

Though, definitely, anyone can say they have a diagnosis and it's not necessarily the truth. Maybe I should know by now not to take everyone at their word.

Traits of a narc - maybe.

I can feel identified with having a long time to trust in relationships. It took me a lot to do it with my guy, and even having doubts that my significant people really care and accept me but I don't use to avoid until I find out if my thoughts have a base or not. So, in this sense, I haven't got this trait.

Trying to think of how to respond, because it seems I've missed a lot. I guess my wording was a bit bad, as in some relationships we don't avoid if we feel like we don't have to. That's how I am with my partner, too. I avoid some things with him (confrontation, for example), but I don't avoid *him*. As with all diagnoses, I think, as long as you meet most of the traits you'd probably be diagnosed by a professional. (Though to be honest, since mental health care is so hard to access I never understood why a professional diagnosis was considered important for saying "Hey, I have this and this.." as with mental illness and personality disorders, we often feel we need to know other people struggle with it, too, so a self diagnosis IMHO is just as important if you can't access treatment...)

I do feel like avoidance is always there, in the back of my mind. In a way, it's a good thing I have an understanding partner. I can't imagine where I'd be if I didn't. (Probably running away to retreat once more like all my past relationships)

As for extroverted avoidants... I have no doubt they exist. I don't consider myself 100% introverted, to be perfectly frank. Of course, I'm not extroverted, either. I do need to wind down after being around a lot of people, and yet I don't feel I get my energy from being alone, either. I think I get my energy from being around one or two people at a time. Knowing that, I can imagine there would be extroverted avoidants. It would likely be a sadistic form of torture, of course. Imagine feeling like you have to be around people all the time, and yet being afraid to. It's torture enough wanting to have just a few close friends but being afraid to.

OSFED|MDD/PPD|GAD|gender dysphoria|AvPD

The same here. I think the only that saved me was my job and then, my guy. They connect me to the world in some way.
My problem didn't begin in childhood, at least, I wasn't conscious. It was in late adolescence that I began to develop this tendency to avoid social situations and being involved in normal activities most people did.
I felt and feel inadecuated to interact and do things with others. So on up to now.
If I go out of my comfort zone then, I have to recharge my energies. I can open myself up very few people.

Regarding the diagnosis, I think it's important to have an accurate one. You need to know what you are dealing with to find some kind of progress but I went through my first diagnoses after having therapy for years and even when I didn't know what I had, it made a difference this therapy. In other way, I didn't dare to get many things I got.

The first diagnosis I received was a released for me at those moments. Now, I'm not so optimist because the progress is slight and I'm afraid I will have this for all my life.

Avoidants and close relationships dont last.
I'd question any one who calls themselves an Avie.

I'm not saying that they don't happen, for we have the simple need of wanting to love and be loved... But we cannot maintain the connection for we are ever so hyper vigilant for signs of abandonment, and should they not appear we will push the person to make cracks appear in a ever testing need of reassurance all the while feeling not worthy of the person.

Our avoidant thoughts won't allow any relationship to last... Even if the other person knows of our diagnoses.

Diagnoses is important or two different views will only led to conflict especially in forums like this. My point is a someone with SA is going to have to different view according to their experiences to someone who has AvPD.

I am diagnosed mixed PD with dependent, schiziod, avoidant traits. And DID. I have been married for 29 years and I think we are close. Of course I could be wrong about that. With my mix, who knows.