[amaviena]

I take klonopin. 1-3 daily as needed. One at night to help me sleep which evolved from 0.5 a night. now its 2 a night. and that's not working anymore. Maybe I could ask my doctor for diazepam to be a little longer acting, but I'm terrified of just more benzos. I don't see him until the 11th so the abuse will continue. I'm still within my dose and whenever I take it for anxiety it works perfect at the lowest dose. I think I should just ask for something real to sleep with. I don't want actual sleeping pills like ambien, trazadone or lunesta because they scare me. I guess we'll see. any thoughts?

[Berries]

For me: Seroquel is a good med for sleep. It is also a good med for mood stabelizing and psychotic symptoms.

It all depends on the dose. For example my mom takes 50mg at night for sleep. Works good for her.

I take 1200mg at night for sleep, mood, and psychotic symptoms. Works good for me.

There is also an extended release available if you have trouble staying asleep.

But different meds work differently for different people. But maybe seroquel is worth a try?

[thunderbear]

Yeah seraquel is really good for getting sleep. It don't make you feel crappy the next day either.

[amaviena]

Seroqel is a nono. It puts me to sleep for days at low doses and makes me completely crazy. I'm already on an antipsych, Geodon.

[Berries]

Originally Posted by amaviena

Seroqel is a nono. It puts me to sleep for days at low doses and makes me completely crazy. I'm already on an antipsych, Geodon.

that's too bad. but not totally suprizing. different meds work differently for different people.

[thinker22]

I have the same reaction to Seroquel, ama. I feel horrible the next day after taking it. So groggy, shaky, weak, wanting to sleep all day, and heavy ideation.

I've been given Abilify just today and hope it will calm down my mania. Otherwise, I'm like you, on benzos...2 pams at high doses just to get 5-6 hours a night. Otherwise all broken and 3-5 hrs. Wow, a wave of drowsiness just hit me. No matter. Anywho, I want to get off the pams as well. I have no idea what will do that because I realize it's not for long term use.

Hope you're okay today.

[Visioneer]

Benzodiazapine and related drugs such as klonopin and diazepam do have a high potential for abuse and addiction, mainly because one develops a tolerance to them which leads them to take more, and because they develop a physical dependence, ie. completely unable to sleep without them. The other drugs you mentioned for sleep:

Ambien, a very similar chemical to benzodiazapine with the same potential for abuse
Trazodone, an antidepressant sometimes prescribed off-lable for insomnia with withdrawal symptoms common
Lunesta, a non-benzodiazepine that has all the pitfalls of a benzodiazepine

These drugs would probably not be any better for you.

The other drug that was mentioned, Seroquel, does have a wonderfully sedative effect, and I have only had chance to use it once. I slept for six hours without waking up once, which for me is a record. It is sometimes prescribed off-lable for insomnia, but because it is a second-generation antipsychotic and very similar to Olanzapine, it has a high propensity for causing weight gain. I gained 30Lbs on Olanzapine, and had it not been for the somewhat emergency situtation I might have refused the Seroquel because of that fact. This does not happen to everyone, but it is one of the most common side effects of atypicals, and everyone I have spoken to personally about them has been really uncomfortable with the amount of weight they gained on those drugs. It is also somewhat dependent on the dose, and because someone might be using it strictly for insomnia and not as an antipsychotic, a low dose may effectively be used without causing the same degree of side effects as experienced by a schizophrenic or bipolar patient, so it may be worth discussing with your doctor. If you have a naturally addictive personality, be warned that Seroquel also has potential for abuse, but probably not to the point or for the same reasons as benzodiazepines.

My recent experiences with the benzodiazepine family have left me very wary of their use, for any reason. Although low doses may be effective for controlling short-term anxiety, their long-term use for sleep is not recommended because of the tolerance and subsequent abuse potential, as well as the health problems associated with long-term use or sudden withdrawal, which can be very dangerous.

I was prescribed zopiclone, the same non-benzodiazepine found in Lunesta, so I can tell you that I understand what you are going through. It stopped working, so I took more until it stopped working again and then I took more... and then I realized there would never be enough and if I kept going that route I would overdose. I realized how pointless long-term use of this drug was, and decided to stop taking it. And then I didn't sleep at all, for days. I would lie in bed and be in this half dream state, hearing constant sounds in my head, unable to break the threshold of unconsciousness. I lay in bed for 12 hours the first night, exhausted and unable to sleep a wink. The second night I slept for about ten minutes, taken in momentary snatches as I lay in bed for 8 hours. The next night, knowing I wouldn't be able to sleep after five hours, I just got up and went about my day. It is slowly improving, day by day, but even when I do fall asleep I soon wake up, turn over, and try again. No matter how much I lie in bed, I'm not really sleeping. I, too, need to talk to my doctor about what the next option will be.

I really wish you strength and luck dealing with this. If you really want to stop taking them, don't do it without talking to your doctor first; you could end up like me or much worse.

[eskielover]

I was on benzo's for a long time when I first had my anxiety attacks in 1994-2000+. I had even intentionally OD'ed on them many times which I thought would have created even worse problems. I had no idea that stopping the high dose of valium i was on could even have any effect. I am not sure why, but after i quit taking without any problems, everyone was telling me what bad reactions I could have had.

When I went through a trauma with my Mother & her death, my pdoc put me on 600mg of seroquel....enough to knock out an elephant considering I only weighed 93 pounds at that time (the stress made me loose a lot of weight) I couldn't sleep without horrible nightmares & was in really bad shape, so it didn't matter that the seroquel kept me knocked out almost permanently.....couldn't wake up the next day & was just really a mess. That was in 2005. I was able to lower the dose to 25mg/night to sleep & it worked the longer the time passed.

Now when I have days without sleeping, I will take 25mg & sleep for 24 hours. When I wake up I am usually very dizzy & disoriented, but it sure gives me the sleep that I need....just wish I didn't have the after effect the next day....living alone now (which I didn't then), I have 6 dogs to take care of & when I am wiped out for 24 hours, my poor dogs are in need of going outside & food.....they survive well without bothering me when I am out of it that bad...they are very quiet & good.....but I don't want to do that very often....especially when I have many things to care for around the farm....when I get my horses here....that 24 hour wipe out won't be possible.

Hope you can find something that works well without any side effects. Valium never really worked for me without taking a large dose.....so it wasn't practical from the beginning.

Eskielover

[Berries]

Originally Posted by amaviena

any thoughts?

Have you tried relaxation tapes?

What about a warm bath before bed?

Do you have a partner? Maybe a massage before bed?

Reading?

Watching/listening TV or a radio talk show? (I find this useful in shutting down my own thoughts by focussing on the words I'm hearing on the tv or radio)

[amaviena]

Yep. Works about as good as a placebo.

[thinker22]

Yep, I'm the same way, just baths, massages, relaxation tapes, aromatherapy, breathing, meditation, reading a book, etc., cannot put me or keep me asleep, although, they help sleep aids to work even better. Even before I was on benzos none of these things helped. I tried all the natural herbs too...just like a placebo. My mind is like a pinball machine at night. It's hard not to get up and write out all my "amazing" ideas. I wish I didn't need sleep ever sometimes. We probably need an electrical implant with a switch that we can flip or a dial we can work to calm us down directly w/out drugs. Man, I have so many ideas today. Some that are already invented and others that should be.

I don't have a dependence on benzos yet as I've only been on them 2 weeks and they don't really even work to give me more than 5-6 hours of sleep, which is only slightly better than without. I'm not going to increase my dose because I want them replaced with something soon.

I think the a-typicals cause me to lose weight if anything because when I'm able to sleep, either I can't eat, or the sleep heals the digestive system and speeds up my metabolism when I do get up. Can't really explain it. I guess sleeping and depression can cause either weight gain or loss. Seroquel didn't cause any weight gain for me. I was at my lowest when on it, so I doubt Abilify will cause any gain either.

Sorry to ramble on. I'm already 2 projects from here and can't focus. Hope you get some new meds soon that will actually work, Ama.

[Berries]

Originally Posted by amaviena

Yep. Works about as good as a placebo.

Same for me, but they were the only things I could think of for you to try.

Anti-psychotics are the only thing that gets me to sleep and even then it is not a full nights sleep, it is an every two or three hour wake up from a nightmare or vivid dream sleep.

If seroquel didn't work for you, there are other anti-psychotics out there to try.

[rhonswat]

Originally Posted by amaviena

I take klonopin. 1-3 daily as needed. One at night to help me sleep which evolved from 0.5 a night. now its 2 a night. and that's not working anymore. Maybe I could ask my doctor for diazepam to be a little longer acting, but I'm terrified of just more benzos. I don't see him until the 11th so the abuse will continue. I'm still within my dose and whenever I take it for anxiety it works perfect at the lowest dose. I think I should just ask for something real to sleep with. I don't want actual sleeping pills like ambien, trazadone or lunesta because they scare me. I guess we'll see. any thoughts?

I have recently been put on Ambien. I was VERY scared to take sleeping pills. But, my doctor told me that I need not be worried because I will be able to wake up if I need to. Which is true. I lay down and close my eyes when I first take them and then I sleep. There has been 2 times I have had to wake up out of a dead sleep, and I had no problems. He has me on a low dose and it is working for me. Everyone is different. What I did was have my husband keep an eye on me and help me out if one of the kids needed my attention; that is until I found out how I was going to react the the medicine. Good luck!!

[thinker22]

Originally Posted by Berries

Same for me, but they were the only things I could think of for you to try.

Anti-psychotics are the only thing that gets me to sleep and even then it is not a full nights sleep, it is an every two or three hour wake up from a nightmare or vivid dream sleep.

If seroquel didn't work for you, there are other anti-psychotics out there to try.

Yeah, Seroquel got me to sleep alright, but so far Abilify does not. I have nightmares with or without Seroquel. It's only the benzos that keep me from waking up in the middle of the night (if I take all I'm supposed to) and from having nightmares. I want to test if I need them though. Maybe this weekend? I'm awfully tired and have to work tomorrow.

to Berries and Ama

[pinkisfloyd]

Have you ever heard of melatonin?

http://www.disabled-world.com/artman...elatonin.shtml

Ever tried Yoga. I got into it yrs back. It was a couple of months before I really noticed much difference, but I kept it up for 3 months after that with great results. I takes a lot of work but I think that it is something very healthy and has long term benefits. I borrowed a video from a friend today. I have really been meaning to get back into it.
K

[amaviena]

Yes, and I've tried warm milk too which works about as well.

LUNESTA was my trick. 9.5 hours last night. My head hurts slightly, but its worth it.

[thinker22]

I gots ta get me summa that.

Actually I do need a new prescript for Loraz through the new doctor. Only have 3 left. It's the only thing that works to get me/keep me asleep. I tested it last night. No temaz, just 1mg of loraz and I got 7.25 hours. Yay! I think the temaz must weaken its affects b/c never got more than 6 on it.

[amaviena]

He did up my clonazepam to FOUR mg a day. I think thats excessive so I'll take what I need.

[thinker22]

Yeah, I've only ever been told to take 1/2 - 2mg of pam for anxiety and sleep.

That is kinda excessive. Maybe if you had something scary or super upsetting happen, I can see taking 1 during the day and then 1 at night. But 4? I wouldn't want to get addicted either.

I had a stressful day at work. I'm having a small amount of wine. (Don't worry, I take my meds hours from now. It won't interfere much).

Hey pinkis, I want to try yoga. I've been saying that for 2 years now. I'm so friggin' sore and my muscles are all knotted up from holding my breath and tensing up when I try to accomplish things. Especially when I don't sleep well. And I could totally do it once I learn how to safely...I'm double jointed and look forward to turning myself into a pretzel

[amaviena]

I was tired all day today. I hope its not the Lunesta.

[thinker22]

Me too. I want something to work for you.

I wonder if you take it earlier in the evening if that will help it wear off before daytime?

[amaviena]

I'm skipping tonight then taking it tomorrow. I'm most alert at night. Is that strange?

[pinkisfloyd]

That is usually when I'm at my best and most alert.

[Slothrop]

Originally Posted by amaviena

I was tired all day today. I hope its not the Lunesta.

Lunesta didn't make me tired next day. In fact, it didn't work through the entire night, only the start. Good at first though. I really hope it works out for you!!

I currently take a less common benzo, estazolam. It seems to provide just the push I need to get to sleep, and not keep waking up. Unfortunately it has a long half-life, so there is some hangover...good reason to keep the dose low.

(As an aside, I do not recommend Halcion/triazolam...that stuff messed me up! I mean, it was fun/funny at the time, but I wouldn't use it normally. )

I think my array of other meds (antidepressant, mood stabilizers, etc.) has really helped stabilize my sleep patterns. I'm just such a militant insomniac that I need that one more thing to seal the deal.

[thinker22]

I like that. "Militant insomniac." I know exactly what you mean. I'm on the big 3 and I still need sleep aids to get any decent night. Like last night. Asleep after 11pm. Awake just after 2am. Was ready to go. But I tell myself, "Go back to sleep or you'll either be drowsy all day or manic as hell. So I did and eventually got back, woke up just after 5 and here I am.

My parents are visiting today, for like a week. This is the first time they've visited since I have been dx'd bipolar. Sorry, I'm rambling. I just wonder if they'll judge me if they see me when I have to take my meds. Oh well.