[Karen1933]

I've spent hours and hours researching and reading about different mental illnesses since last Fall after my 18 yo daughter attempted suicide.

Up until that point, although I just knew something was wrong, I looked the other way hoping it would go away. Big mistake.

Since then, in Feb. of this year, she was diagnosed bipolar. I have tore the internet apart looking for knowledge, information, support, and hope.

My heart is breaking...as of last night, I had to have her leave my home. She refuses medication (also has hypothyroidism), will not get a job (even if it's something simple and part time), steals, lies, and is completely disrespectful in my home.

I hurt so bad...I wish I had a do-over with her...but know deep down inside that even that may not have changed anything. When I think of her, I cry...I picture her as that little innocent girl...until her world absolutely crumbled when she entered high school.

I want to fix her...I want to shelter her...I want to make everything OK for her...but I can't.

I admire those of you who are taking charge and advocating for yourselves in living with and managing bipolar. I hope in time that my daughter will do the same because after many painful experiences, I've realized that I can't do it for her.

God Bless You All

(((((((Karen1933))))))) Sending many hugs to you. My heart breaks reading this.

I really respect you for trying to help your daughter, and I respect you too for setting up boundaries and limits. She should not be able to steal, lie, and be disrespectful towards you. It's also a shame that she is refusing medication.

I hope that your daughter will soon realize that she requires help for the mental illness she has.

[Skully]

What a wonderful mother you are! Very excellent that you are taking a proactive approach to your daughters illness. That is truly wonderful! Give yourself a pat on the back, you deserve it!

[Karen1933]

wow...thank you so much for your kind words and support. I'm struggling hard with what's happened...this is not the first time I had to put her out.

I know she's not on the street...I also know that it may just be a matter of time before she is...the pit in my stomach grows every time I realize all the "what ifs" and possibilities.

I tell myself that until she comes to terms with the fact that she has an illness, she will not do anything to help herself. I have talked with her...telling her that at its core, this IS a physical illness...it just manifests itself mentally and emotionally.

She is applying for SSI and since she's moved out, she may qualify for some state aid, hopefully insurance since she has none.

Even though she is 19, she was living with me, and that voided any help she could get through the public aid programs.

I have given her numbers for help to NAMI, Social Service programs, etc....maybe she will reach that point now to call since she really has nothing to fall back on anymore.

I'm so grateful that even though I feel so wrong about this, it truly is the right thing...I just have to get my head AND my heart on the same page...

[grizmom]

I'm glad that you are looking out for yourself and your own mental health!! It must have been difficult to set those boundaries with your daughter, and I hope that she will accept treatment soon. Kudos to you; you sound like a very courageous, strong person!!

[sugahorse1]

Hi there Karen - welcome and thanks for being such a supportive mother!

I can try give you my insight - I'm 24 and no doubt give my mother grey hairs!

I moved out of home with a boyfriend when I was 19, and she was OK with that. (The bf and I am still together). My mother does not know I am presumably BP (We don't speak that much, but have always had a positive relationship; I just never discussed very personal things with her).
Last year Feb my world crumbled a bit, with me breaking up (temporarily) with my bf, my boss at the time took me under her wing and I moved in with her. I was first diagnosed with Major Depressive Episode and went to hospital for a few days. My boss phoned my mom; also informed her I had started smoking. (Note the shattered image this was to my mother, who had only known me a straight-A student, who was in a well-paid job, and getting towards the end of her career).
She came to see me in hospital and was very supportive. Even now she will send me the odd informative article she finds along the way.
She doesn't know about my BP and I guess it's easier that way. I do know that if I need someone to lean on, she's there.

Personally, I never had a problem admitting I suffered from depression; or now, with BP. I understand it's a medical condition, I understand medicine helps. I understand that the hospital is a measure that can be used too.
Is it possible for you to get your daughter into hospital? If she suffers from BP, the mania, if left untreated, can be dangerous.
I tried to take an OD when I was in my deepest darkest depression. I hurt my family badly. I realised only medication can take that pain away. I've avoided therapy, as I am battling to pin-point issues that I feel I need to work on, but they are slowly becoming clear to me.
I think you are practicing tough love, which is not easy, but may be necessary to cause the break-through in your daughters thinking. I truely hope she comes round soon enough and lets someone help her

[Karen1933]

When she spent time in the state psych hospital in Oct. 2009, I hoped and prayed that they could help her. She would not cooperate and said whatever she needed to get out as fast as she could. Even her being on suicide watch was not enough to force any kind of evaluation, treatment, etc. She was there for about 6 days and then essentially checked herself out.

Since then, she knows her diagnosis, but obviously refuses to accept it because she refuses to take medication or even search for help.

I can now see the difference between the depression and the mania, she she rapid cycles quite fast. Her mania can last for weeks, where depression lasts for maybe a few days, but I've seen her switch within minutes right in front of me.

She's tried to explain what it's like inside her head to me. She stresses at the slightest thing, is very, very easily distracted, takes extremes risks, cannot complete a simple task like picking up her clothes. If I asked her to pick up her shoes and put them over there, she can't follow a 2-step process. Her self-care is bare necessity and frequently incomplete. She left Friday with the clothes on her back and hasn't been back since for anything else even though I told her I would do her laundry and she could get the next day.

She does have in interview with Soc Sec on June 15. I don't know how she'll get there and may suggest she do the phone interview. She also has a court date in which she must complete a driving course beforehand. She was caught speeding with no license the first of the year. We got her the license in time for her first court hearing, but she has to complete a driving course online before the next one in August. She has told me she doesn't care about it...

I think I'm just beginning to babble here...I want to help, but have to watch that fine line between helping and enabling. I would appreciate anyone's input in regard to their experiences, especially with the state of Illinois, as far as getting assistance of any kind.

[sugahorse1]

I think the opportunity that presented itself where she tried to explain what was going on in her head needs to happen again. Just sit and listen. Even suffering from BP it's very hard to explain to others.
I just pray that she doesn't bump her head once too often before she realises that BP cannot be tackled alone (Has she officially been diagnosed?) but needs the assistance of Medication and psychotherapy. The book "An Unquiet Mind" really explains BP, and especially the mania part, very well. I've nearly completed it and it opened my eyes. Especially as I suffer more from the depression than the Mania.

I think your assistance, be it enabling or helping, is invaluable.

[Karen1933]

Her explaining has happened a few times. I have studied mental illness in college, and even had a few temporary episodes that were situational myself over the years. I understand alot of what she's told me and have even explained things that I believed about it which she agreed with.

She has been officially diagnosed bipolar back in February. She was prescribed Abilify, but stopped taking it about two weeks later because she said all she wanted to do was sleep when she took it.

She has no insurance and wouldn't go back to the psych that diagnosed and began treating her and wouldn't talk to him in order to get a med change. She simply just walked away from it and things deteriorated from there.

The enabling means that I'm doing things for her that she could be doing for herself. That does neither of us any good.

Thank you for the book information...I'm going to look into it.

[sugahorse1]

If you are not able to get the message across to her about how serious this is, is there someone else? A family member she is close to, a boyfriend...? That person can either sit her down and have a serious chat (I don't know her, but it sounds as if the kind and caring route has not proved fruitful at this stage) or take that person away from her life until she submits and co-operates. The moment she takes a step in the right direction, reward her with something that means a lot to her.
I know the feeling of wanting to stop meds as they either make you feel numb or very tired. She needs to understand that a lot of this can be overcome by cooperation with the pdoc to get the right combo.

[Karen1933]

One of the saddest by-products of this, to me, is her inability to actually have friendships. She uses people to get what she needs or wants. A good number of her "associates" of really not much different than her.

There is no boyfriend...she uses males and calls them her "vics' (victims). After she left Friday, her sister and I were cleaning up the bedroom she used and found empty condom packages under the bed...I have to stop my head from even going there because I just get ill and the pain surfaces again.

I completely understand how the meds affected her, but I encouraged her to talk to her Pdoc in order to find something more tolerable. Now, she won't even take the medicine for her hypothyroidism (which might even help just a little bit, and have NO side effects).

I'm thinking that one way I may be able to help is to provide a letter to Soc Sec detailing some of her behavior over the years and possibly showing when/how this began and how she's deteriorated over the years now.

I have a very close friend who's daughter is bipolar and is managing pretty well. My friend has suggested that her daughter get in contact with my daughter as they do know each other somewhat already and my daughter is somewhat familiar with what her daughter has been through.

As of now, my daughter has cut off contact somewhat with me. I have text messaged her twice to let her know about her clothes, but she has not responded. I'm hoping to hear something soon as I have the stuff in my car and have offered to drop off later today.

[kadesgirl09]

((((Karen1933)))) good luck to you in dealing with your daughter. I know I put my mom threw many episodes. cant elaborate now but know your not alone.

[bmx35]

Dear Karen1933...I so appreciate your concern towards your daughter. It must be really frustrating to help someone you love who seems not so keen on helping herself. I hope your efforts will pay off eventually...that your daughter will find sense and get over with the denial stage fast. In the meantime, do take care of yourself too...HUG HUG HUG

[Karen1933]

Thanks to you all for your hugs and support. I don't know why, but I'm subconsciously preparing for a crisis soon...I fear she will show up at my home claiming homelessness, but I cannot let her back, which means she will go into crisis and I may have to involve the police. At least now I know to contact the Crisis Intervention Team that we have here who has been specially trained by NAMI.

As much as I hurt and worry, I have to enjoy the peace that I have knowing she can't steal from me or bring people into my home when I'm at work. I'm getting some freedom back which I haven't had in a very long time.

I continue to look on the positive side to all this...maybe this will help her see how much help she really needs.

[sugahorse1]

Karen - she needs help and you've tried to offer it - have peace in that thought.
She is not allowing any other intervention in her life, so maybe the "opportunity" of calling the Crisis Intervention Team will be a blessing in disguise. Getting the police involved and getting forced treatment may be your only possible solution here

[Karen1933]

That's what seems to confuse me. When she attempted suicide, the only thing I was able to override was her ability to refuse admittance into a psych hospital. I couldn't do anything to keep her there longer than she was (about 6 days).

Even then the police "helped" me out by taking her to an ER outside the district where a social service program was that could get her into the state psych hospital. She had been taken to a local hosp before, but they discharged her within an hour after seeing that she attempted to slit her wrists. She told me it was because she had no insurance. They discharged her on her own accord. It was just a mess.

So...maybe the third time will be a charm?

[grizmom]

Originally Posted by Karen1933

That's what seems to confuse me. When she attempted suicide, the only thing I was able to override was her ability to refuse admittance into a psych hospital. I couldn't do anything to keep her there longer than she was (about 6 days).

Even then the police "helped" me out by taking her to an ER outside the district where a social service program was that could get her into the state psych hospital. She had been taken to a local hosp before, but they discharged her within an hour after seeing that she attempted to slit her wrists. She told me it was because she had no insurance. They discharged her on her own accord. It was just a mess.

So...maybe the third time will be a charm?

Either your state has different laws, or that hospital was breaking the law. In Wisconsin, if a person harms themself or even threatens to harm themself, they have to be held for 72 hours for a pysch evaluation; if the person does not have insurance the hospital is required to send them by ambulance to a county or state hospital. After the 72 hour hold, if the pdoc wants them to stay longer and they refuse, they go to court and they have to prove they are stable enough to be released. If they are not med compliant it is very rare that the judge will release them. I guess I would suggest that you try to find out more about the laws in your area regarding these issues. You might also be able to try to become your daughter's legal medical guardian, although I think that can be difficult. Take care, and I hope she will seek help of her own volition soon!!

[Karen1933]

I'm in Illinois. I'm sure the first hospital broke the law because she had obviously done harm to herself...they treated her for it.

For a while, I seriously considered suing them because they let her go. After they released her, she got into a car with a complete stranger for a ride because I refused to pick her up.

The second time, although she did not harm herself, she went into a rage outside my apartment, kicked my car and made a dent, and was pacing and screaming like a wild animal, she has threatened over an IM to a friend that she would find some guy and steal from him (kill him if she had to). That is when I actually got her to the ER and the social service program got her into the state hosp psych ward.

The friend stepped up to the plate when asked my the social worker if the threats were true...fortunately, that helped get her in the hosp. But, that only lasted about 6 days...I don't think they did an eval because she surely would have been diagnosed. But, they did have her on suicide watch...made no sense to me.

She called me yesterday asking to come back and to give her another week...I refused because she still hasn't sought out any help. She has two doc appointments (internist and psych) with Social Security on the 15th. I hope she makes them...

I've thought about the guardianship issue and honestly just don't want to take it on any level because then whatever trouble she gets into falls on me and I've had enough of that.

I'm somewhat prepared for a crisis where I will have to call a crisis intervention team and go through the nightmare of having her committed...again...it's just so heartbreaking and I'm walking a fine line of sanity myself already.

[hemulen]

What a wonderful parent you are! I know that my mum finds in so difficult to cope with me at times. I attempted suicide at 18 as well however my mum doesn't know about it as I was at uni at the time and I don't think I could ever tell her but to hear that you are so supportive of your daughter regardless is something to be so proud of. I take quite a lot of my feelings out on my family and it's probably because they won't give it back. Although she doesn't show her gratitude i'm sure she is thankful of your support and I hope she comes through this and starts to appreciate the way you are being but you are right... only she can help herself and i'm sure in time she will. Don't give up but remember to take time out for yourself.

[Karen1933]

Thank you so much...but I sure don't feel like a wonderful parent. My heart keeps telling me that I should let her back in...but my head screams with bells and whistles knowing that all I'd be doing is enabling her, and that is NOT help.

Although I can't speak for other parents, my guilt is overwhelming sometimes. I continuously replay history wondering if I missed something along the way...or if I did or didn't do something that should have or shouldn't have been done. It's crazy-making in itself sometimes.

I can't tell you how many people always tell me that I can't "save" everyone. Think I would get it?

First it was my husband...and WOW so many things make so much sense now, specifically as I look at our past together...rocky is an understatement, but now I know why.

My own stuff...alcoholic mother, emotionally unavailable father...talk about another train wreck happening in slow motion...

But, I did manage to stop some of those generational issues....yet, something even more heartbreaking still manifested.

[Trippin2.0]

You have NOTHING 2 feel guilty about! You are doing your best to support and understand her. You are doing the best you can,it's not your fault she's refusing treatment. You are a wonderful mother, I hope that I can be as strong,loving and supportive to my daughter, should she need it 1day! You are a real gem! Please don't beat yourself up about things beyond your control... I am keeping you both in my prayers. LOTS OF HUGS, ADMIRATION AND APPLAUSE!!!

[Karen1933]

thank you for that...it is true that I can do nothing until she wants help herself. I probably know more about the illness than she does...I have tried to be so positive...explaining that this is doable, it's manageable...I will help you every way I can, but you have to do your part also. Deaf ears don't hear.

[Karen1933]

Just averted a crisis a little while ago...she showed up at my home with the friend she is staying with. She lost her cell phone (again, lost count how many times over the years now). No money, no job, wants back in, but yet has a place to stay.

Had to give the friend some money for room and board...my sanity is walking a fine line about now. I can't afford this...and I think if it happens again, the police will have to be called.

My landlady was here when this happened (she does not live in building) and that's the only reason I didn't allow it to escalate.

She thought today was Father's Day...she had been told before that it wasn't. I can't tell what's illness and what's lies or excuses for convenience anymore.

Anyone around? Could use some insight...support...something.

[Trippin2.0]

(((((HUGZZZ)))))

[sugahorse1]

I'm sos sorry to hear you're still no closer to sorting this issue out.
I really hope that she makes those 2 appointments tomorrow - can you possibly phone the 2 specialists ahead of time and have a chat around what your thoughts are?
I really think you need to follow through with your decision of not letting her back in; she needs to understand that when you say something, you mean it