Is it possible to live without medication with bipolar?

Many many of us have been there, often more than once. (I tapered way down in February, and it didn't take long for the "whoa! what was I thinking?!" to kick in.) Don't beat yourself up about it, ok?

I'm on no meds currently, not by choice but because of bad side effects (2 saddle pulmonary embolisms) or they just dont work. And its been 4 years...

I guess I am called "refractory"

I feel the side effects to the meds are worse than the bipolar itself. So instead of having a large amount of uncontrol in my life, I have a controlled cycle since I usually sit in the depressed mode and when I get hypomanic I am productive but it doesnt even last a week.

Any cycling is traumatizing and if anyone is ever wondering why they feel worse or the cycles get worse I think its because of the added trauma just from having all that instability in their life. Thats where I am at now. Afraid of feeling good and when I do I know it will end but when...

I am afraid that statistics, even listed on Psychcentral, that they is a 15% chance those diagnosed with bipolar, will suceed at commiting suicide. Hmmm.. aren't those odds simiar with a game of russian roulette?
I went through years without meds and it was truly a roller coaster the whole way, one that I regret and as a result, some important doors closed for me until my death. It is necessary that we have mood stabilization, an effect support system, in additional to extensive therapy, if we are to capable of living in a normalized manner. That includes not self-medication even with our medications if we do not take them as prescribed. It is a daily decision to live in the solution regardless of what it entails so that I can have my disease at bay if I am to achieve seccess in any area.
Or, I can crawl under my covers and pretend that it was only a bad nightmare. Even with medicaion, I am still not above having a mood range, just like anyone else except that my mood ranges are so much more intense that my "normal"" counterparts.
No, medications are not required in order to recover, however, with so much to lose, why shouldn't I take every resource available?
ptk

This thread and poking from family members gave me cause to open the door to meds. I have reached the end of my tolerance level going it without meds so I talked with my new GP about trying the meds. Treading slowly I accepted a script for 25mg of Seroquel nightly in an effort to at least regulate my sleep. Since he has no real experience treating bi polar I wasn't comfortable edging into mood stablizers or anti depressants under his direction. If I were to take that step I would need to engage a Pdoc was my thinking.

Anyways the last week with the Seroquel has not gone very well. The first night was good. Asleep within 10 or 15 minutes and out for a good 9 hours. It was wonderful. Tuesday I didn't take one because I stayed up too late. The good sleep the night before had me almost manic with energy and I didn't want to slow it down and stayed up most of the night only getting a couple of hours sleep the next night. Wed on I was more disciplined. Set a reasonable bed time and took my pill but it didn't knock me out anything like it did the first night. The struggle to get to sleep was as bad as ever but once I did get to sleep it knocked me out for hours. When I did wake to an alarm or on my own I felt very hung over. The hang over feeling lingered all day. My mood cycled and at least once each day I struggled through a meltdown. The fatigue triggered overwhelming emotions.

I saw the doctor again today to report on the effects of the Seroquel and to review recent bloodwork to check my thyroid. I had been struggling with fatigue, weight loss, appetite loss and rapid cycling and I really thought it was all due to my thyroid being out of wack. Turns out my thyroid is good and everything else checked was good too so still no explanation for the symptoms.

The doc suggests I reduce the seroquel by half but he admits he is drawing strays because he doesn't know what else to suggest. He offered me an anti-depressant but I said not yet because I worry since I cycle so rapidly it could be a problem. I hear anti-d's can increase suicidal ideations and I have enough of those without them to take that risk. In the end he said give it a couple of weeks on the reduced dose and if I am still not getting sleep without the hangover he would refer me to a pdoc to look at other med treatment.

I struggle with the feeling that this med trip is all I feared it to be. A long long journey through a new kind of hell in hopes the gamble will pay off. In hopes the bliindfolded science will somehow magically spin out a miracle. I think one needs to believe or at least have confidence in a course of treatment. I am struggling to find that faith and confidence.

I will take my 12.5mgs of Seroquel tonight and see how it goes tomorrow. Unfortunately I need to make a living somehow and zero to 4 hours of dragged effort to function every second day isn't going to cut it. I will take the pill because my family wants me to make an effort with meds and I guess because I am lossing hope I can get any better without them. I am just not sure I will get better with them either. Finding that out for sure could just be the straw that breaks my back. What will I have to consider if meds fail too? I think that is behind my fear right now. What if they don't work? Its one thing to refuse them for whatever reason. Its another to find out they don't make a difference.

Not sure this was the right place to share my recent med experience but since this thread starting me on this journey it seemed the right place to me.

Hello there Chenryu76! I am so glad I stopped by this week or I might have missed this thread. You might be interested to know that I was once a bipolar child in the state system and I fought against forced drugging and exercised my right to refuse medical treatment (psych meds) and I never once regretted it.

I did the big, “Oh no!” for years—living with my daily madness. And I didn't always do so well. But I learned a lot about myself—my strengths and weaknesses. Trying to learn how to control the manias and depressions was one of the greatest challenges of my entire life. I didn't have a family to support me. I walked away from ineffective, dehumanizing and traumatic mental health care. And I learned to live with being mentally ill. I really didn't have much of a choice.

Eventually, I learned to deal with it. So yes—you very much can live with symptoms of bipolar disorder without any psychiatric medications in your body. I got my Dx when I was very young. And life was not at all that fun for a very long time, on meds or off.

But life was definitely better off of them. Things did turn around and I don't suffer like I used to. Hope that helps!

Oh, I am so disheartened to read your reply, I feel for you in my heart. I heard the frustrations that you are feeling regarding medication, your family and your diagnosis.

Imagine if you will a five story building. "Earth People" live on their stories although in response to life event, they might descend as far of the first floor, denoting extreme depression. Yet they "major depressives" or "earth people" live on the third for, denoting relative stability of mood.

Those established with unipolar depression and again, exist somewhere between the first floor, exteme depression; the second floor, moderate depression and the third, relatively stable in neutral mood.

Those of us diagnosed with Bipolar II range between the first floor and the fourth, denoting hypomania. Yet the ability of the the bipolar II to regulate their mood is little different than the that of the unipolar. Haven't you heard someone say to a depressed person, "Oh, just snap out of it!" or "Quit feeling sorry for yourself" or my personal favorite, "Just be glad you are not crippled!" If anyone has yet heard these kind of statements as being effective treatment for chronic depression, regardless of severity, I have yet to hear of a success case.

That leave those of us that are diagnosed with Biplor I (of which I am diagnosed) going to that horrible floor of mania leaving of in a dark scary room where some of us see of hear demons, lose our sense of reasons and cannot distinguish that from delusions, our behavior is directly related to how the mania effects each of us. While feeling I am invincible and the demons are telling me in my mind that I could fix all my problems if I just opened the window and jump but that I would not be committing suidice. This last description was a literal story of one of my experiences and my 15 year old daughter found me climbing through the window insisting, happy as can be, that "They told me how I could fix everything." She pulled me in so hard that she dislocated my shoulder while pinning me down and calling 911. No, I have relinquish custody long ago but she does visit me, and thank God she was with me that day even though it makes me sick to think that I put her through that.

Again, without mood stablizers, I have no control over that express elevator. Rapid cycling I relate to spending a lot of time on that elevator going to whatever floors our diagnosis designates, yet still we are constantly moving from floor to floor.

Mixed state presents a more difficult comparison for me as I am physically unable to be on two diffent floors at the time yet my mind seems to separtate so that I can be on the fourth floor and the first floor simulanteously. If you want to talk about feeling out of control, that defines it for me. Worst yet, is the realization is the one that comes to me after a few days of large dosages of anti-psychotics and mood stabilizers, that I had yet another episode.

I have referred to the action of two different types of medications, mood stabilizers and anti-psychotics (although they also help in minimizing the effect of our reactions to our moods as they shift). You needn't be diagnosed "psychotic" to benefit from the atypical-antipsychotics.

You expressed concern over suidial ideations as a risk associated with the newer age of anti-depressants that operate by chemically preventing our synapses from uptaking the Serotonin (neurotransmitter) that was released by those same synpases. Hence the title, Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors. Recently, the FDA approved another class along the same line that effects the reuptake of two different neurotransmitters. By having an excess of one or two of these floating around in the brain, it, in part, relieves the sensation of depression. Yet, the suicidal ideation risk is mostly directed at children, teens and very young adults. That is the reason that it is necessary that this particular client be followed very closely by both psychologists and psychiatrists. The actual statistic correlation is quite small yet the correlation exists, therefore, the FDA regulations to make such a warning compulsary. If you read the cautions on any medication, prescription or OTC, they are there at the regulation of the FDA so those that choose to take these medications be aware with the associated risks. The warnings pertaining to SSRIs or SNRIs is emphsized because that risk is mortal and permanent in a population that might not even be old enough to vote. I see where it serves a dual purpose, it gives parents pause to rush to the doctor to prescribe a drug that is inappropriate since it is not designed to treat teenage angst. Yet those that do warrant that prescription are warned to participate in the young person's recovery.

Regarding Seroquel specifically, I have spoken at length with both a neutral (not my pdoc) pdoc whose specialty and research is directly related to BPD and a psychopharmacologist regarding the wide range of milligrams prescribed to different patients. Both made me aware that the drug representatives a few years aog, were delivering free samples to the pdocs (as phamecuetical represntatives also do) but they also gave to the doctors a gift of a coffee cup advertising Seroquel that had a bulls-eye with the number 600 in the middle subliminally suggesting the typical prescription strength to be presribed! I was told that 600 milligrams per day is ridiculously high. I told of other patient's whose dosages ranging for 12.5mg to 800 mg per day. I was told that the minimal effective dosage is in the neighboor of 300 milligrams per day but the correlation between seroquel, continues to increase of diabetes mellistus. However, I was also informed that the minimal effective dose is at 100 milligram. Upon telling pdoc he commented that I chose the most expensive sleeping pill on market. Hence, I confimed his opinion with two other indepentent resources avaliate that opinionl

I know my post was long but I really would like you to see a pdoc. If I came across as condesending, please forgive me but its late and I have some payers to make.
Best wishes
ptk

Thanking ptk for your reply but to be honest I don't have the brain capacity to understand much of what you have taken the time to share with me. I apologize. I will come back to read it when I am in better shape.

I think I am going to start a new thread to talk more about my current situation. I am really have a hard time right now and need some help figuring out what to do.

My apologies to the OP for highjacking the thread with my last post.

meds have been amazing for me, and I will stay on them for at least year. I do hold out hope that after a period of normality I will be able to reduce most or all of my regular drugs and only need to take stuff if I become unbalanced... It may be a unrealistic hope, and maybe I'll never get the chance to try, but it makes me feel better to have that as an aim...

I think I would need to adopt that same attitude BlackPup. If I see it as a short term treatment I am less anxious about it. Even if it doesn't work out that way it seems to help ease me into considering med treatment.

I might be kidding myself! but it helps me take them - especially those days when its a struggle

I hear you. It may be a dellusion but if it gives us the help we need now we will be in a better place to decide what to do as time goes on. I know I have read a lot of post of folks who have thought this way only to relapse soon after going off the meds.

I think the best strategy is to do what is necessary now and cross that other bridge when I get to it.

Good luck with your med treatment. I hope it gets you to the place you want to be that will provide you a better quality of life then you have without the meds. That is my hope for all of us. I know I am done fighting the meds. I am afraid of the journey towards finding the right meds and the right combination.... the horror stories of this process has feed my med phobia but I am choosing to believe it will all come out right in the end. I pray I am lucky enough to find the right meds sooner rather than later.

I'm a weird bipolar. I bet no I don't even want to bet I could go without meds. See, I'm stable for years at a time. But when I'm depressed, I'm sucidial. And the one time I was manic still scares me after 16 years. I'd rather be dead than manic. Bipolar is different for all of us and unpredictable. You don't know when what is gonna strike. Or you may be one who goes up and down all the time and really needs all kinds of meds. (Although I"m on a lot of meds). It's nothing to play with. I remember how crazy I was back before I knew I was bipolar. Especially in my 20's. And you don't have to go through that. It's like a diabetic going without needed medicine. Eventually something is going to happen. Getting the right meds take time and a good pdoc. Choose wisely. Good luck with whatever you choose.

I also wanted to add that I think it also depends on how sensitive a person is. I am a highly sensitive person and at times this is a blessing, but with my BP it can be a curse.

I can instantly notice those minor shifts in my moods. This is good in some ways because I can use my coping strategies to help prevent it from going deeper. I say it's a curse because at times I wish I had a "break" from it. I'm also highly sensitive to other people's moods and am very good at reading people. Again this can be a curse or a blessing.

I was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder as well. I believe you can be without medication, but you need to have a strong mind in able to cope with it. I keep a journal and I constantly research it so I know what I am dealing with. I used to take medication, but they made me more depressed I'd gain 10-15 pounds, eating when not even hungry. I'd lay around and be severely fatigued and tired. It's not even that I still haven't found the right combination, it is the fact that none of them are 100%. You're always going to find a flaw on one of the medication combinations. Plus a lot of those medications aren't good for your body they are filled chemicals and slow down your metabolism. My period went away for 3 months and my thyroid levels were showing up as if I was going through early menopause. If you have a bad case of it, then I definitely do not recommend getting off of them. However, if you think you are able to control it I'd suggest seeing a therapist, taking vitamins, eating right, exercise and keep a journal to keep track of your moods. The mind is much stronger than we think and it will believe anything you tell it. I believe in the next 10 years something better than medication will have come about to help deal with this disorder a different remedy that will not hurt your body. To help lack of sleep, buy a good tea and make it before bed and those help you relax and do help me sleep.

I'm sorry to be blunt but, quit simply..... NO...it isn't.

Sorry Crazymusiclvr.... but I disagree..

There are numerous people on this forum that are med free and doing just fine.

Medications are not the only treatment for Bipolar.

Treatment is important since without it bipolar illness can become worse as one ages. With it, one might get better over the years as one mellows.

A few people are able to do without medications, but they have probably a very mild
case and have been able to make changes in their diets over the years that have
alleviated a lot of the mood swings. It's unusual, in my view, for one to recover
completely, although it is not unheard of.

SO..... we going to start assuming people can be "medfree" only if they have "very mild" case?

You are kidding ,correct????

sorry, to be blunt, but yes it is, neener neener neener

and I certainly hope genetic is kidding too with their "milder case" catchphrase. Cause I have lotta respect for them otherwise.

But all I know some of us med-free had some very crazy and wouldn't-wish-it-on-our-enemy-nor-Kim-of-NoKo experience.

I find it sad when threads become this contentious. It was the same way on the thread about drinking a ways back. It's a trite phrase, but "live & let live," I say. I'm not going to take a stand on this issue, as I don't want to fan the flames. Peace, y'all.

I just don't like when people delight in dashing hopes of others' or like to play a truth carrier.

I may be a beyotch, but I hardly use "it's a fact", "it's a truth that..." and so on.

I wasn't implying that you were being a beyotch, Venus...Strong opinions on both sides of this issue have been shared. I hope my previous post can just stand on its own. You're right, though, Venus. Folks shouldn't foist their opinions on others in an absolutist or insulting way. Peace, ya'll.

My problem with "no you cain't..." is...

question can I do without is asked mostly by folks for whom meds don't do it. Or make it worse. Or make them unacceptably blah. I guess financial issues are issue too... working hard to have your medical bill swallow half of the pay check and taking medicine so you can work hard so you can pay for your meds... not ideal situation...

If you can take meds, it's acceptable for you and works for you... great. There's nothing to talk about really. But if it simply doesn't work... there should be space for discussion of "what now". Telling "no you can't" to person in such despair... you can imagine what it can do. Yes, maybe "yes, you can" is irresponsible too... (I have been told time and time again I may be preventing folks from getting treatment "they need" (do they? If I have no right to determine over internet that it's possible to do without meds... what right does the other side have to determine what the person "needs"?). But yes, you can always comes with "lifestyle, support system, yadda yadda".

Hamster once quoted some article that 10% of people with BP don't get better with meds. Some other may get "better" but side effects or overall effect is not that acceptable to them... and it's not death sentense and I find it horrible to be presented as such. ANd I don't care doctors do it. I met plenty of ****** doctors in my life.

I'm not on meds, but I don't know how well I'm coping. I just can't find any meds with side effects I can tolerate.

I don't appreciate the "no you simply can't" nor the "milder" case replies either, because they are written in "absolute" fashion, and there are very few absolutes beyond life and death... Also, it renders me invalid. I am not invalid.

I've been on meds, wasn't for me. I'm off meds for almost 2 years now and would not call my case "mild"... So maybe I dont go bike riding naked in the rain, walk into traffic because I'm immortal or call the cops from my shoe, but I don't think suffering a 14 month long depression, anhedonia or being hospitalized due to psychosis mild.

That being said, I manage in the manner I choose to, and know best to, and I really dont think all this gloom and doom talk about bp life sentences on meds is helpful to anybody, especially not the newly dxd.

That being said, spread the hope people, leave the doom and gloom for the pdoc's office where most of em readily preach how we'll never live quality lives without their drugs.