[hamster-bamster]

I do not even know where to begin. I guess with the following: at work, I have been doing very detail-oriented work. I have not purchased anything without thought. I am trying to be rational. So all in all, I do not think I am in frank hypomania.

2 years ago, for a very short while, I was a member of a dating site. There I "met" - in a friendly rather than romantic way - a guy. He is a psychiatrist and lives in SF. We have talked on the phone may be 5-7 times total. We have never met. I quit paying for the dating site and have not come back; I do not have intentions to date online whether on that site or elsewhere. That guy - I approached him because I was curious due to his profession, not because I liked his pictures. In fact, his pictures are very honest - they do not conceal the fact that he is fat (large belly and pretty much that is it).

Not only were his pictures honest but so was he over the phone. He told me how stressful and unsuccessful the dating search was and even called it an unending quest for a p...y. He even told me that at times he considered hiring a prostitute (my understanding was he that he did not follow through). He also told me about his MI, although I did not get what he has - depression or BP.

He emailed me a few times and his userid is his real name. I just looked up his LinkedIn profile and the resume matches what he describes as his current workplace. He went to Harvard, according to LinkedIn. Clearly, it does not buy one happiness...

He knows a bit about my quirks and history but not too much. He strongly recommended that I seek advice of a particular local guru in all things bipolar but I did not; I found help elsewhere.

We would talk every few months - that infrequently. When I was in my depression, it did not occur to me to call him and seek some help; interestingly.

Then a few days ago I received a newsletter from Psych Central. There was an interview with the Michelle, the Fat Nutriotionist. I became very curious about her, read her blog, liked her cute, smart face and what she does, and was INSTANTLY hooked. Among the articles Michelle reviews was one that questioned the "calories in, calories out" idea. I recalled that A. - the name of the psychiatrist - told me of another guy, Gary Taubes, who questions this idea (in a different way), and decided to email him about her. I wrote that she is one smart cookie and I recommend he read her. He replied with "when can I see you?".

Now that is new - in the beginning we decided that we would not see one another but would be friends over the phone.

That email with "when can I see you?" arrived at 10 sharp. My smartphone which I now keep next to my bed because it functions as an alarm beeped and I read the email. Normally I do not respond to email at that hour. I emailed him back (IMMEDIATELY) with "I work now, so weekends only", he emailed me back equally immediately with his phone number and a request to call now. I did. This is past 10, when I am supposed to be asleep. Going to sleep at 10 was THE priceless advice of my previous p-doc and I consider it no less important than the chemical agents. During this conversation, I tell him about my new work, about my trouble with staying awake at work... etc. etc. down to the fact that due to Geodon I can't come. The whole nine yards, yes. All my side effects. He becomes curious that Geodon can do it to you, very curious, and then asks "but how, how?" I respond with "via masturbation". Then he offers his help.

Then he tells me about his life. He used to be strongly suicidal, but about a year and some more ago a good mix of meds was found for him so he is not, but he still feels lonely and friendless (I found this word touching). I told him that he should not feel lonely, he deserves better...

So we are basically having here a support group of two obese mentally ill people "with benefits". I told you it would be a hilarious read...

For those of you who have read my thread on sexual attractiveness and fat, now that I am into the Fat Nutritionist Blog, I do not obsess so much. But with A., this would have been a complete non-issue because in comparison I am not fat but merely saftig. He does not know I carry excess weight due to meds, btw. He himself, unlike me, has been a fat kid since early on (I was a thin kid, a gymnast - a completely different story) but medications probably add to his weight. If I understood him correctly in one of prior conversations, he even considered going off them in order to lose weight.

I am all enthused now that I have read about discrimination of fat people and I am (this is completely serious) excited to give a guy some less intimate (no fluid exchange, of course) forms of sex to fight this discrimination he has been facing all along. So we have got two people one of whom is ready to help with a sexual side effect of a drug (I do not believe he can, btw) and the other willing to fight the effects of discrimination. I told you it would be a hilarious read, once again.

After the phone conversation, I could not fall asleep. It was weird - I practiced deep breating in a perfectly calm way but still could not fall asleep. I did not want to risk a ruined w/e so I tooked Zyprexa PRN and it worked beautifully. I had really restful sleep and was not groggy in the morning. Did lots of laundry and kept thinking whether I should indeed go on a date with him as we agreed on Saturday or chicken out.

Then I open my inbox and see two emails neatly stacked one on top of another - from A. and from D. D writes neutrally about his day; A, about his excitement - he is going to see me. I get a kick. I think to myself - is it the number (more than one)? If it is the number, what would be the ideal number for me to really feel great? 5? The excitement wears off; it is shallow - I do not think it defines my life, but it was there for a moment.

I am still thinking and I am still unsure. I am also unsure as to what/when/if at all to tell my ex-husband. When I was daydreaming about D., it did not occur to me to run the idea by my ex-husband first because D "predates" him by 10 years - my relationship with D. is something old and sacred. But here... just yesterday my ex-husband, who has sole custody, was commenting how he could have gotten a girlfriend but does not do it for the sake of the kids. And here I am, playing around. I feel bad. I feel like telling him before someone sees me with A. and tells him - I do not want that scenario at all. Of course, if all I do is visit A at home, I can keep things completely private. Right now, I think that it is rational to first meet A., decide whether I want to go any place with him, and THEN think about what to tell my ex-husband.

Does that strike you as reasonable? Thank you for your wisdom - I know you will give me perspectives I cannot possibly embrace now on my own and will look out for me. Thanks.

[unaluna]

I don't know about hilarious, but your lovelife is turning into a quadratic equation How cool! The more you open yourself up to things, the more things come into your life - I call it being in sync with the universe. You know you're on the right path when doors just start opening.

The only thing I would question is, why does your ex-husband need to know your business? That is something you need to clarify for yourself. It sounds like knowing about each other's potential dates could only be hurtful for both of you, a source of unnecessary trouble. How potential future partners are presented to the kids is another question altogether. Is his family helping take care of the kids, or is he doing it completely on his own?

As for A & D, what I think you have here is two birds in the bush, so to speak; nothing yet in hand have fun! But try to see them as people, not politics, not so rational - you sound too much like I was at your age. Take it slow, get to know the person, listen to that little voice that says I do or don't like this about this person. Smart fat depressed guys aren't as much fun as you think they'd be - even when they have a boat. Or maybe it was just that I couldn't commit, idk. but he wasn't that supportive of me, and told me I looked like a d*** in a baseball cap, and made out like I was the fat one, when he couldn't fit in a booth at mcd's. and he started telling the same stories over and over. like after just a few months. so now you know what to look out for, right? JK!

[BipolaRNurse]

I'm afraid I wouldn't be much help, HB, but this story is enormously entertaining, and I hope everything works out for you all IRL!! Keep us posted, OK?

[bluemountains]

Wow, HB. I have no advice, but I enjoyed reading your post. It reminds me of some time WAY back in my life when possibilities were exciting!
I agree with Hankster. Why does you ex have to know your business? You are allowed to be happy and have fun.
Bluemountains

[BNLsMOM]

I met my husband online. When we dated, I didn't tell my ex anything other than I was going on a date. It wasn't until I was serious about my husband that I said anything to my ex husband about who my new boyfriend was and what he was like. At one point, I let them meet when my ex came to pick up my son. At that point I felt that he deserved to meet the guy who was spending so much time with his son. At the same time my ex was dating someone new and that is when I met her because she was spending a lot of time with my son. Fast forward to now. My ex and I are both married to the people we are dating and we all get along great. Sometimes we even hang out, especially if my son has a school event that we are celebrating.

Hopefully something like this will happen for you.

[BlackPup]

Defiantly a good read!!! You could make a tv show about your love life! I agree with the others that there is no need to tell everything to your ex... About the rest of it, I would see where things lead and what you think of this guy in real life. You might not like him in real life, or he could be the next best thing in your life - who knows till you try. When foes your European friend join the party? I guess deal with that when he arrives. Keep us updated - we need to live vicariously through other peoples exciting lives, I know my life is boring in comparison!

[RobertDark]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I am still thinking and I am still unsure. I am also unsure as to what/when/if at all to tell my ex-husband. When I was daydreaming about D., it did not occur to me to run the idea by my ex-husband first because D "predates" him by 10 years - my relationship with D. is something old and sacred. But here... just yesterday my ex-husband, who has sole custody, was commenting how he could have gotten a girlfriend but does not do it for the sake of the kids. And here I am, playing around. I feel bad. I feel like telling him before someone sees me with A. and tells him - I do not want that scenario at all. Of course, if all I do is visit A at home, I can keep things completely private. Right now, I think that it is rational to first meet A., decide whether I want to go any place with him, and THEN think about what to tell my ex-husband.

Oh your poor martyr of an ex-husband. Boo hoo for him. Maybe that sounds cold and calloused, but when I see someone say "I COULD date people, but I don't because of yada yada yada" I think that's garbage. I don't have kids, so maybe I can't possibly understand that actual statement but I think if he wanted to date someone he should and he could find someone that would be fine with the kids. There is no doubt that kids should be important, but is every other woman he going to find be some sort of toxic influence on them?

Even if it is valid to not date someone because of children, that doesn't mean he has to tell you because, in my eyes, him saying that to you is really just to make you feel guilty. Apparently it's working.

I don't know your exact situation and how long you've been divorced, but I see no valid reason you can't date someone or a few someone's.

Great read, btw. It's fun to have people interested in you. I was out this weekend and even though I have gotten the woman I wanted back in my life and it's going great, I was out with a friend and his friend's friend or something was interested in me. I didn't care, but I put the charm on and made her laugh a lot. Nothing happened and never will, I'd be surprised if I ever saw her again, but having people interested in you is a stimulant. At least for me.

[Victoria'smom]

I assume your going to want most of your time in the beginning of a relationship with just the 2 of you. I do not feel your ex has any business knowing until the guy is in your kids life more often then most.

[hamster-bamster]

I want to thank everyone who has read it, with or without response, for finding entertaining value in my post. Nothing pleases me better that making people smile, no, laugh, no, laugh out loud. I will respond with quotes later.

[~Christina]

lol Hamster you crack me up

Thank you !

[hamster-bamster]

So I decided to go out to a restaurant with A. tomorrow, with a write-up to follow. Have a good weekend!

[Trippin2.0]

Hmmm can't wait for the update...

[~Christina]

Ohhhh I so want to read how things go .

[moremi]

I enjoyed the read Hamster. Sounds like life is very interesting for you at the moment. I would love it up! There is no need to tell your ex until your sure things will be continuing on with one of them. Im looking forward to reading more....

[BlueInanna]

So.... ?? How'd it go?

[cocoabeans]

I'm reading this too!

[hamster-bamster]

Thank you! So I do not think he will call me back, and I have three possible reasons for it.

1) He did not like my appearance.
2) He took the stance of a therapist and thus spoiled the fun for himself.
3) I honestly told him, when asked directly, that I would want to be married to my ex. He might have decided that I have too much baggage, am not available, etc. Again, had he not taken the stance in number (2) above, I would not have volunteered that I would have preferred to stay married to my ex, so he brought it upon himself. He asked perfectly directly, I could not help answering honestly.

I liked him. He has a pleasant face, not as in "cute", but as in "intellectual", and I am fine with that. He is not as enormously fat as he appeared on his dating site photos. In fact, he looks overall better than his pictures portray him - I was even going to tell him that but for some reason I did shy away. He is smart. He spent some time telling me about his own recent events, which was interesting. He did not like the restaurant, which I picked for one simple reason: my ex strongly did not like it some years ago so I was assured that there would be no mid-air collision. But the restaurant had 186 rave Yelp reviews so I felt safe suggesting it. No... A. sent his leftover food to my cats, and even they were not too keen on it. So I decided that I do not have a lucky hand with meal choices and IFF he calls again (which I doubt, read on), I will let him pick a restaurant provided it is in the city, because my ex does not go up to the city more than once a year.

A. is an unusual modern p-doc in that he does not believe in DSM and has very limited faith in medication. He believes a lot in parental influence. But I know, for instance (I did not tell him because I did not want to talk about my kids) that my older daughter shows signs of the illness as well as behavior patterns common to me and my late mom, while her little sister does not. They were brought up in the same fashion, lovingly without abuse, so biological genetics must be at play. One got a certain set of genes and the other did not. Not all is upbringing. But as he was expounding his theories, I was just knodding, fixing my large eyes unblinkingly on his face. Even though I was so attentive, his theories were hard for me to comprehend, or perhaps he was not the greatest story-teller, so I would not try to capture them all here, suffice is to say that he called certain things I did in my early twenties just being a "stupid girl" as opposed to having a pathology and my suicide attempt an unfortunate form of communication. I think there is something to it. But there was too much quizzing me and that is where it got to the point when I started feeling I am being in someone's office rather than at a restaurant, and that is when he asked me directly whether I would want to be married to my ex.

After the meal, he asked me, in a shaky voice, "How is dating going?". I responded with "I am not dating, you are an exception". He said, "So I should feel no pressure", to which I knodded. At that point I thought that he liked me because why else would he have bothered to ask this question? And especially have a shaky voice while posing it? Any ideas?

He gave me a lift home. I told him that I would have invited him for tea but the place is a mess. "It is that bad?". "Yes, it is that bad" (referring to the stories of overbuying from container store that I had told him earlier). I think I was both polite and earnest telling him that I would have invited him.

This morning, I sent him a thank-you note. There was no reply. I realized that the note was too formal, to the point of being off-putting. I called him. He was on the phone with his mom. I asked to call me after he is done. He was pleasant over the phone, I asked him empty questions to keep the talk going (nothing psychopathological ) and then said bye, and he was audibly relived to say bye on his end. Oh, and he told me that he is a depressive, not a bp, but he welcomes bps - and here he made the obvious joke about hypersexuality. That was at the dinner table. Oh, and he told me that he has known women who have had sex without wanting it. "They felt obligated?" "Yes, sort of". "No, that is not me!!!". So this is all for the juicy stuff, I am afraid. Thanks for reading!!

[unaluna]

It's a jungle out there! but you survived

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by hankster

It's a jungle out there! but you survived

You crack me up!

[unaluna]

reading about your date, I started having flashbacks to a date I had in the early 80's, also in california, a big good-looking guy, but SO BOOOOORING - to where your eyes start rolling back in your head? ugh! and what kind of shrink categorizes actions as "stupid girl stuff"? See, you SWALLOWED that. I would have too. We don't want to believe the person is talking to us like that, but. they. are. I can see my (one) ex girlfriend (yes that's what I mean) throwing a drink in his face for saying that and cussing him out. My first thought on reading it was, "what a weird shrink, my T would never say anything like that." but I hope I would have walked away. you did, essentially, by not inviting him up - you are still protecting yourself with physical barriers, as am I - i'm not EXACTLY a hoarder, i'm just keeping the wolves out... I hope I am not coming off as know-it-all, I really see you as a sister, idk, we just have so much in common. I was a big walker (i l0ve race-walking), and I do l0ve your independent thinking. but T is softening me.

[Trippin2.0]

What a weeeird date! Glad you went tho, if for nothing else, it was an experience Good for you for handling his brand of psycho-babble, I would've chucked my drink in his face or left abruptly (without a word) after his 'stupid girl' comment

[BlueInanna]

Thanks for sharing hamster. I'm glad you didn't sleep with him. My feeling is that was what he's mainly after... the hamster bootie. What if you had and he was horrible in bed, ugh i hate when that happens... and then what if he didn't leave your bed before morning, ugh even worse (sorta joking... sorta serious). Dating is tricky and it is a jungle! Keep your clear boundaries like you're doing.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

I would've chucked my drink in his face or left abruptly (without a word) after his 'stupid girl' comment

I can't let go of my reaction to this, ie the fact that I HAD a personal reaction to it, that I could say, I have someone in my life who would NOT say that to me. I have never had that kind of moral certainty before. I always had to excuse away that kind of insult, that kind of bad behavior. "They don't know what they're talking about about, they don't understand MY side of the story, they don't know the TRUE me." WRONG. They know as much as they are ever going to know, and this IS their opinion of you. So - ARE you, am I a stupid girl? Only if I stick around for more of their nonsense. Which, when it's your FAMILY, puts you in a very tough situation. Stay, and be stupid; leave and be alone - but smart? Very hard choice. And since A. was on the phone to HIS mommy first thing the next morning, I bet that's the same deal she offered her sonny boy. Maybe that explains the wavery quavery voice the night before, the relief the morning after. Anyway, point is, I am so glad that my first reaction is that I can hold my T's love for me in my heart, it's not just a vague feeling, as it was before, of, gee, maybe that's not right - which is what my parents were.

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by hankster

I can't let go of my reaction to this, ie the fact that I HAD a personal reaction to it, that I could say, I have someone in my life who would NOT say that to me. I have never had that kind of moral certainty before. I always had to excuse away that kind of insult, that kind of bad behavior. "They don't know what they're talking about about, they don't understand MY side of the story, they don't know the TRUE me." WRONG. They know as much as they are ever going to know, and this IS their opinion of you. So - ARE you, am I a stupid girl? Only if I stick around for more of their nonsense. Which, when it's your FAMILY, puts you in a very tough situation. Stay, and be stupid; leave and be alone - but smart? Very hard choice. And since A. was on the phone to HIS mommy first thing the next morning, I bet that's the same deal she offered her sonny boy. Maybe that explains the wavery quavery voice the night before, the relief the morning after. Anyway, point is, I am so glad that my first reaction is that I can hold my T's love for me in my heart, it's not just a vague feeling, as it was before, of, gee, maybe that's not right - which is what my parents were.

I understand what you're saying, I do. Certainty doesn't come cheap. I went through the same thing of making excuses or justifying responses, of friends and fam, but I learned that I'm heavily allergic to BS, and that I'd rather be alone and smart than unhappy and stupid. There's so little in life I can control, so the stuff I can control, MUST benefit me

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

What a weeeird date! Glad you went tho, if for nothing else, it was an experience Good for you for handling his brand of psycho-babble, I would've chucked my drink in his face or left abruptly (without a word) after his 'stupid girl' comment

Well, to give him credit, he said "stupid like so many young people are", so he did not single me out as stupid.

Do you want to know what kind of behavior got labeled simply "stupid"? That would stop being funny though...