Question on Bipolar -

What exactly should an outsider (one without bipolar) have to put up with when someone they know or love has this disorder and is making live miserable for everyone else?


LoVe,
Rhapsody -

is it a family member?

NO - it is not a personal family member of mine..... but my sister use to be married to one of the brothers of this family of the bipolar person, so there are family ties - we share nieces together.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Verbal abuse may be common if this person is in an extreme manic state or approaching a manic episode.
First thing,you cannot argue with them,cause it won't work,it only stirs the agitative state,risking ending in violence.
I grew up learning this,back in the 60's when my oldest brother had his first breakdown,things were horrible.
In the 70's he was put on Lithium,the only drug that was a success,and it still is an excellent med for this disorder,has the longest track record and is non sedating.
In the sense,I mean the person can still function,work,drive,etc. while on this med.
Is this person you are mentioning taking meds and seeing a pdoc on a regular basis? That is so very important,as well as staying in contact with the pdoc when things are worsening.
Keeping the pdoc abreast of episodic behaviour can help in the way of med dosage adjustment and/or change being made.
The amount a person will put up with living or not living under the same roof, varies, my parents tolerated a lot,but then it was their kid, not the same relationship as a spouse or friend.
Another thing I learned, is certain things the person may say,one has to take with a grain of sand sometimes or just tell yourself the person doesn't mean everything they say while they are going through an episode.
The person has to personally judge what they can or want to tolerate.
Naturally if things are taking form of violence,that person may want to call the authorites,but be sure to state the person is having a manic episode and needs to be hospitalized.
This is the best I can think of from what I have seen in my life,growing up in a household with this.
Fortunately,since the 70's,my brother is still on Lithium,and has managed a good life,is on his 3rd marriage and it looks like for keeps.
Stabilization takes a lot of patience,work and time,for the patient and the non-bipolar.
Proper diagnosis is important too,in order for the person to be on the right type of meds. a person can more than one disorder,the most obvious one is best addressed ASAP.
Example: a person can be Bipolar and also have ADD,pdoc's will treat the Bipolar first and then later on possibly the ADD,in that order cause most treatments for ADD are stimulants (there are non stimulants too)which can fuel agitation.
Once true stabilization of the Bipolar has been accomplished,then it can be determined if the behaviour(s) where strictly of Bipolar nature,and not just ADD or both disorders, being that both disorders can overlap or symptoms can be similar,but need to be treated seperately for obvious reasons.
I hope this was of some help to you,for I share real life experiences and know I'm not an expert.
Sometimes RL experience can be more exact than "book learned" experience.
Hope all goes well for this person and the person with Bipolar disorder.
Take care now,
DE

hey there rhaps,does the person understand their condition?I'm wondering if they are aware of it all,it may make a difference to them,I dont know,just a thought.I agree with darkeyes about it being easier for family to hack it than friends etc.all the best.

Thanks.... for the replies, now I will to try and answer a few questions - YES, he is aware of his actions and he seems to thrive on being ill and the attention / care he receives from it (and) NO, this person is not doing well and by his own doing.... he drinks, does drugs, and over doses on his Rx medicine. He is literally a walking time bomb and I am tired of walking on egg shells, for he is constantly making problems for any one he comes in contact with or that he perceives as not liking him, rather it is true or not.

All of this is why I asked how much should one put up with when someone they know is Bipolar and life is yuck around him....

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Sometimes you have to walk away. I am bipolar and have stuggled for at least 33 years. Sometimes people who were friends and loved ones have had to step out of my life so I was forced to get help from the outside. I know it sounds cruel, but, it made me go get help. It may not have been easy for me or them and it may not have happened right away but I eventually found help. Sometimes it's SOGB.....

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helen1231 said:
Sometimes you have to walk away. I am bipolar and have struggled for at least 33 years. Sometimes people who were friends and loved ones have had to step out of my life so I was forced to get help from the outside.

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YES........ I totally agree with what you said here - and I have long since stepped away, like I said before this guy is not in my present life per say (we share a niece together from a past marriage), but no matter if you actively deal with this guy or not he still seems to create trouble from with in his own mind.... he does all that he can to bring his wrong assumption to life.
It is sad but I think the only way he will get help he needs is when his mother passes away, for the rest of his family will not put up with his antics.


LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Aggitation is a trademark of mania....it sounds like this person needs a med evaluation, IMO.

Most of us BP's ...THAT ARE MED COMPLIANT,\...and who are receiving effective treatment shouldn't be abrasive/abusive as a general rule....and at least not for an extended period of time.......

So he may have a personality DO, or he might just be a jerk.....
don't let him use BP carte Blanche for unacceptable behaviors.

It's not fair to those of us who try really hard to behave..LOL

IMO, one of the biggest stigmas of mental illness is generated because it is one of the few types of illness that manifests in a behavior....& most ppl can't understand why somebody cann't just "control themselves"

I'm glad you cared enough to ask........

One thing I have found with bipolar is that many victims have been raised in bipolar families, which means that not only do they exhibit symptoms stemming directly from their condition, but have also LEARNED these behaviors from their parents and grandparents.

The bottom line is that, even though they (we) may have a disease, the abusive behaviors are a choice for which that person is responsible, even when they are manic. You need to deal with them in the same way you would from anyone else. I dealt with them for 17 years, and I am sick now because of it...don't let it make you sick, too.

DJ

Davey....you almost make it sound as if BP was/is contagious........
EVERYBODY is a product of their environment...good, bad, & the ugly.....If you add in the tendency for BP genetic predisposition...it sounds like you got the short end of the stick.........

AS for rhapsody, my dear, I would avoid contact with this person whenever possible....less stress on you....but I wouldn't make a big deal that this person is the reason......if he is feeding off the attention...positive or negative.... knowing this would give him power, at least in his mind.

Think of it like trying to teach a pig to sing ...all it does is frustrate you & annoy the pig

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bigdog1263 said:
AS for rhapsody, my dear, I would avoid contact with this person whenever possible....

Think of it like trying to teach a pig to sing ...all it does is frustrate you & annoy the pig

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Thanks for the advice and the LAUGH........ I needed it.

Bigdog...

you're right...many believe that genetic predisposition + severe stress = bipolar. I do believe that the stress of my marriage, which was extremely abusive emotionally and verbally, was a contributing factor in my disease. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the stress of living with bipolar parents is a major factor for many, including my ex.

All that said, the stuff about choice of behavior came from the most prestigious mental health hospital there is, where my ex spent 5 weeks not long before we split up. It may not be easy, but they don't have to spend hours yelling at you...and you don't have to stand there and take it.

DJ

I have bipolar disorder. So do several other relatives. My disease is fairly mild on the manic side--my depressions are much worse. I don't know how others have felt dealing with me, I am mostly just overexuberant when I am hypomanic and really talkative. Others in my family have been less fortunate and during manic episodes have become very abusive verbally, lost tons of money, almost wrecked marriages etc. I try to be understanding with these sicker individuals, but I do have to draw boundaries as in the past I have gotten caught up in trying to rescue family members who were sick. You cannot force someone to see a psychiatrist or seek help if they don't want to but you can refuse to accept unacceptable behavior if it is hurting you. I think it can be a very tough call.

I have to agree that all in all EVERYONE is responsible for their own actions, rather they are dealing with mental illness, PMS, PMDD or day to day stress.... when I went through a mental breakdown nine years ago I made sure that I did not take my issues out on another person in any way or form - I worked hard at it all the time and believe me is was a task, but nevertheless I did IT.


LoVe,
Rhapsody - ((( hugs to BP ppl )))

so many of use there illness as an excuse to act out this is not acceptable as it was said we DO make choices and must be accountable, also treat others as you want to be treated, in my worst times I try to stay away from others so my mouth doesn't get me in trouble this doesn't always work but I try

First, I didn't know what that icon meant but I kinda liked the looks of it.....

I wholeheartedly agree about people and their actions....but I prefer to think that all ppl are ACCOUNTABLE for their actions but assigning full responsibilty for them is another matter......
I guess I am just saying that someone isn't ALWAYS soley to blame for their actions.......but that does not excuse them......

For example, during manic periods ( Please pick me ) a person experiencing poor/no impulse control will pay the price for overspending or overeating, etc...but they are not entirely to "blame"

Rhapsody stated: "I have to agree that all in all EVERYONE is responsible for their own actions, rather they are dealing with mental illness, PMS, PMDD or day to day stress.... when I went through a mental breakdown nine years ago I made sure that I did not take my issues out on another person in any way or form - I worked hard at it all the time and believe me is was a task, but nevertheless I did IT."

This is not always true for everyone,but can be for many.
For there are so many variables to a disorder(s) too.
Its not always black and white,so many things can factor in,influencing behaviour at the time a person is episodic.
Though not the same,but very similar, is when a person is truly in depression and a non depressed person says things like,"snap out of it",or "get over it already".
If a person had total control of brain chemistry they would most likely wish to "snap out of it" but that is not always possible all of the time. That is where therapy,meds come in,and if needed,hospitalization.
While I do not disagree totally with you,people need to know Bipolar,like other disorders,medications,etc. is not a "one size fits all". For those,once DXed with Bipolar,and in some sort of treatment plan,such as therapy,meds monitored by a pdoc,or both, over a length of time,some people may be able recognize the begining of destabilization,sensing something is not right,maybe something may even be familar as to the way they felt once before,when they first became episodic.
I know several people,including myself,that somehow have developed this ability of recognizing subtle changes,taking place,this is the best time to contact your pdoc,perhaps a change in your dosage of the mood stabilizer you take,may be needed. It may even be a matter of changing which mood stabilizer you are taking at that present time.
It is not uncommon that ocassionally other meds of a different class may be included.
I'm rambling,but just wanted to add this reply to this post.
I'm sending many good wishes,for patience,strength and peace,for all those dealing with Bipolar,rather the person with it or friends,families that are in the person's life.
Take care,
DE

My point is that when a bipolar person sees themselves begin to engage in a destructive (to them or to others) behavior, the have the choice to continue or to do something to avoid the behavior.

If they are being verbally abusive (or worse) with a family member, they can choose to remove themselves from the situation. It may not be easy, but I think most of us would admit that we know when we are engaging in destructive behavior, and can make a choice to stop, however difficult.

Note that I am not talking about the times when we are so depressed we can't move, or so manic that we border on delusional...

Also, our families have to learn to respect those times when we need to get away for a while...that getting in our face about it only makes it worse.

DJ

Yep, I agree on that when we are approaching,and can recognize,manic behaviour or even a manic episode(which many of us learn to do from past experience(s) )it is and/or should become our responsiblity to seek help,which more or less I mentioned in my last reply, but I forgot to say or suggest.
Yes,we do have a choice,hopefully many of us will not wait till things derail,which has the potensity of abuse,verbal and/or non verbal.
Those not familar with the subtle signs,newly DXed,may not yet know or are in tune with the "signs",but hopefully over time,with treatment,will develop the ability to recognize changes that can eventually turn into mania,or even the flipside,depression.
I can't stress it enough for people to seek help,not only the person with the disorder,but including those that share their lives with them.
At the same time,yes,people shouldn't have to tolerate the negative behaviour,abuse,etc. Probably the best thing for those who cannot tolerate,or don't feel they should,is to avoid the person during their manic episodes,don't even try to argue or reason with the person during this time,especially if they refuse pdoc care.
Trying to be with someone who refuses treatment,is near impossible or even dangerous, as things deteriorate (sp?)it is in the best interest for both,to resort to 9-1-1 if there signs of violence developing.
I am not saying to jump to conclusions and get 9-1-1 happy,but realize it's an alternative.
As someone posted previous,it is important to tell the dispatch the person has a disorder,so that the proper approach to this person,rather physical and/or verbal can be made by those who respond to your call.
Again,I'm most likely rambling,but just wanted to add my rusty,2 cents.
Davey, you are quite an asset to this forum,thanks.

DE

Thanks, DE...I just want to help.

I've had the somewhat unusual (I hope) experience of not only being bipolar myself, but having lived with one for 17 years. We had a world of T's and pdocs between us, and my wife was hospitalized in the very best mental health facility on the planet, so I had the benefit of having the material she brought back. I have seen this disease from most of the ways possible and while it has really been no fun, if my experience can be of help to others, that's great!

DJ

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Rhapsody said:
What exactly should an outsider (one without bipolar) have to put up with when someone they know or love has this disorder and is making live miserable for everyone else?

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OK - I posted my first question in this thread back on Sept 1, 2006 - after about a month or two of h*ll with the bipolar person in question..... now 2 months later he is acting and talking to me and others as though nothing is wrong and that all is well with the world again.

Is this to be expected and what should I do? - go on as though all is well?

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Do you think he has stayed on his meds and finally is stabilized? If that's true,it's alright to stay on decent terms,you don't have to be fond of him,but if he was truly derailed before,not on meds,abusive,etc. and now isn't,this can be the "real" him,a nicer person,etc.
I'm not saying you need to be real close and all (help prevent yourself from repeats)but it's not a bad idea when around him,to appear you let things pass.
In the past when my brother had some setbacks,we forgave him,it is difficult and has to be from the individuals he or she effected it,or one doesn't have to at all,depends on what kind of relationship. I know my brother isn't himself when in a manic episode,I know him when he is stable,like the brother I know for 49yrs. Fortunately,he has been stabilized for about 30+ yrs and things have been good.
I hope this person,will stay with a program,cause treatment is possible with great outcome.
If he is being nice to you and others,I'd say do whats simple,be pleasant in return. Pointless bringing up past stuff to him,wouldn't be productive or allow things to move forward.

Rhapsody--

I would say that from my experience, this behavior is not unusual. I went through the same thing with my ex-wife, except that her cycle was monthly...two weeks on, two weeks off.

By the time we figured out what was going on, it was too late for us...there was simply too much hurt on both sides.

You're the only one who can decide what the right thing to do is...but whatever you do, you don't have to put up with the abuse. It was really liberating when I was able to say out loud to my ex, "You don't get to treat me this way anymore...I don't have to listen to it", and then walk away.

Good luck...I hope things get better for you.

DJ

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darkeyes said:
Do you think he has stayed on his meds and finally is stabilized? If that's true, it's alright to stay on decent terms, you don't have to be fond of him, but if he was truly derailed before, not on meds, abusive, etc. and now isn't, this can be the "real" him,a nicer person,etc.

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No - like I stated in a few of my other post in this thread.... this is his usual MO, a few months off and a few months on (being nice that is). That is why I was asking what should one with out bipolar take from a bipolar person that is NOT trying to help himself and cont' to drink or over take his Rx meds, and cont' to cause trouble for every one around him.... friends, strangers and family.


LoVe,
Rhapsody -