[*Beth*]

I just had a very weird get-together with a woman I used to volunteer with. In essence I felt that she was putting me down for not having the same perspective as she does on some stuff that went on while we were volunteers.

The lunch ended horribly awkwardly and I am steaming inside. When I get angry like this I cannot seem to reign it in, or calm it down. I feel like I want to do something extremely destructive or just crawl into bed.

I'm wondering if others with BP have major problems with emotional dysregulation...as in, your emotions are extreme and you cannot calm them down?

I would venture to say I have issues with emotion regulation and I’d also go out on a limb and say it’s part of our illness. I often feel like a slave to my emotions. They control me more than I control them. I’m also known to hold a grudge over simple things that most people could just toss in the “who the hell cares?” basket. My friends often tease me about how deeply and sometimes irrationally I feel about certain subjects. For example, there was a cooking contest at my work once where we had to make a recipe from the company’s cookbook. They *strongly* encouraged everyone to participate. I spent $30 to make macaroni and cheese (I know… and this was supposed to be economic cooking…) when I got there (3rd shift at 7pm) I was told the contest was already over. I wrote a scathing letter to HR about communication and inclusion and spent the rest of the week dreading work. We comically refer to it as the macaroni and cheese incident of 2014. The fact I still remember it and I still talk about it should show how passionately upset it made me.

That’s an odd example to place in this context anyway, I guess I just wanted to vent that (again) haha. But back on track here and I think more to your point, I’ve lost friends over simpler things that what you described. My emotions seem to run deeper and my sensitivities higher than a lot of people. I try to pretend I am not over-sensitive or emotional but deep down I have to accept that I am, and how to let things go. Like you, I’d say my emotions are extreme. My anger – while I am not violent (typically), is verbal rage, or the very opposite – internal brooding. Just like you said – something extremely destructive or just crawl into bed.
So, even if no one else gets it, I think we are in the same boat on this one. Hope I got my point across clear, I meant in not so many words to just say me too. haha

[xRavenx]

Originally Posted by BethRags

I just had a very weird get-together with a woman I used to volunteer with. In essence I felt that she was putting me down for not having the same perspective as she does on some stuff that went on while we were volunteers.

The lunch ended horribly awkwardly and I am steaming inside. When I get angry like this I cannot seem to reign it in, or calm it down. I feel like I want to do something extremely destructive or just crawl into bed.

I'm wondering if others with BP have major problems with emotional dysregulation...as in, your emotions are extreme and you cannot calm them down?

Yes, I also struggle with emotional dysregulation and have had similar experiences/feelings. Lately, anger is something I have a hard time dealing with. My feelings tend to be really intense and have a hard time coping with them, compared to others who are able to just "brush things off" and move on.
I am also impulsive and self-destructive. Lately, I try to keep things in mind things I can do to help alleviate anger/sadness, etc., such as through yoga and self-help videos. It is much easier said than done though, and when I am in the middle of feeling angry, coping skills go out the window. I've been considering going back to therapy.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by MarcusAurelius

I would venture to say I have issues with emotion regulation and I’d also go out on a limb and say it’s part of our illness. I often feel like a slave to my emotions. They control me more than I control them. I’m also known to hold a grudge over simple things that most people could just toss in the “who the hell cares?” basket. My friends often tease me about how deeply and sometimes irrationally I feel about certain subjects. For example, there was a cooking contest at my work once where we had to make a recipe from the company’s cookbook. They *strongly* encouraged everyone to participate. I spent $30 to make macaroni and cheese (I know… and this was supposed to be economic cooking…) when I got there (3rd shift at 7pm) I was told the contest was already over. I wrote a scathing letter to HR about communication and inclusion and spent the rest of the week dreading work. We comically refer to it as the macaroni and cheese incident of 2014. The fact I still remember it and I still talk about it should show how passionately upset it made me.

Your example is exactly spot on! Thank you so much for sharing your experience...it sounds so familiar to me, I have goose bumps.

That’s an odd example to place in this context anyway, I guess I just wanted to vent that (again) haha. But back on track here and I think more to your point, I’ve lost friends over simpler things that what you described. My emotions seem to run deeper and my sensitivities higher than a lot of people.


Yes, mine sure do and are. It seems that long after neurotypicals have moved on, I'm still remembering and actually feeling in my body whatever happened.


I try to pretend I am not over-sensitive or emotional but deep down I have to accept that I am, and how to let things go. Like you, I’d say my emotions are extreme. My anger – while I am not violent (typically), is verbal rage, or the very opposite – internal brooding. Just like you said – something extreme destructive or just crawl into bed.
So, even if no one else gets it, I think we are in the same boat on this one. Hope I got my point across clear, I meant in not so many words to just say me too. haha

Thank you, thank you so much! I feel calmer just reading your post. I guess we're really not alone, haha.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[yellow_fleurs]

I have noticed lately I am struggling with emotional regulation, and I am not sure if it is related to my moods or not. I am not prone to outbursts of anger I don't think, and in fact I have been known for being easy going, and even tempered. So, it is strange for me to realize this is something I also deal with. It doesn't exactly feel like my core personality deep down, yet I cannot deny it is affecting me.
There are specific things I think are just related to stuff from my past like since I've experienced some bullying, that kind of behavior will make me emotional, like a trigger. Other stuff I just don't know. I don't think the emotional issues are there all the time. It can be exacerbated by lack of sleep, hormones, diet. I really am not sure what is going on, but I agree it is something I struggle with.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by xRavenx

Yes, I also struggle with emotional dysregulation and have had similar experiences/feelings. Lately, anger is something I have a hard time dealing with. My feelings tend to be really intense and have a hard time coping with them, compared to others who are able to just "brush things off" and move on.
I am also impulsive and self-destructive. Lately, I try to keep things in mind things I can do to help alleviate anger/sadness, etc., such as through yoga and self-help videos. It is much easier said than done though, and when I am in the middle of feeling angry, coping skills go out the window. I've been considering going back to therapy.

Well, apparently 3 out of 3 of us with BP have the same emotional tendency. So there must be more of us out there

The interesting thing is that we always tend to feel the good, great and euphoric feelings, too.

Therapy has been helping me tremendously. Except today. But I will discuss today with my t. on Monday. In the meantime I will do my best to calm myself over the week-end (fingers crossed that my coping skills don't crumble to a pile of *****).

[Blue_Bird]

When I get angry with someone or something I have waves of anger that come and I feel like going off on someone which is not typical of me at all, I'm a very quiet reserved person. Anyway, I seem to almost always be able to reign it in but it is hard

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by yellow_fleurs

I have noticed lately I am struggling with emotional regulation, and I am not sure if it is related to my moods or not. I am not prone to outbursts of anger I don't think, and in fact I have been known for being easy going, and even tempered. So, it is strange for me to realize this is something I also deal with. It doesn't exactly feel like my core personality deep down, yet I cannot deny it is affecting me.
There are specific things I think are just related to stuff from my past like since I've experienced some bullying, that kind of behavior will make me emotional, like a trigger. Other stuff I just don't know. I don't think the emotional issues are there all the time. It can be exacerbated by lack of sleep, hormones, diet. I really am not sure what is going on, but I agree it is something I struggle with.

All else aside, bullying can certainly leave us feeling vulnerable and hypervigilent.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by Blue_Bird

When I get angry with someone or something I have waves of anger that come and I feel like going off on someone which is not typical of me at all, I'm a very quiet reserved person. Anyway, I seem to almost always be able to reign it in but it is hard

Wow, exactly..."waves of anger"...good analogy! That is exactly the experience I've had today. Sometimes it's even difficult to take deep breaths because of the anger I feel.

[Wild Coyote]

Thanks, BethRags,

This is an interesting thread. It's helpful when we find others with similar experiences.:
I have never had an issue with emotional dysregulation. it's helpful to know more about what others expeience.

[FluffyDinosaur]

I can definitely relate to this as well. I can easily get irrationally angry over minor things, like the neighbors talking in their yard (I guess noise sensitivity is another common bipolar thing?). If I don't watch it it spirals out of control, sometimes even into very violent thoughts and hatred. I'll be seething all day and can't sleep at night because I'm so angry. It was even worse before I knew I was bipolar, because I wasn't aware that it wasn't normal. Same thing if something upsetting happens, like I make a stupid mistake in traffic, I'll keep having these "flashbacks" and panic attacks about it for days or even weeks.

At a rational level I do realize that it's pointless because it ends up hurting me a lot more than whoever/whatever I'm angry at (especially since I tend to keep it inside), but it's really hard to control. When I'm depressed or dysphoric, I'd say it's even next to impossible to control it. Sometimes I get a little better at keeping it in check for a while, but I'll often relapse when I'm tired, depressed, or hypomanic.

Sometimes I also have these stretches of a few days where I'm just angry and really irritable all the time but I have no clue why, it seems to come out of nowhere. I just walk around all day feeling like I want to look for a fight or punch something, and just feeling generally fed up with the world. Do other people experience that as well?

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by FluffyDinosaur

I can definitely relate to this as well. I can easily get irrationally angry over minor things, like the neighbors talking in their yard (I guess noise sensitivity is another common bipolar thing?). If I don't watch it it spirals out of control, sometimes even into very violent thoughts and hatred. I'll be seething all day and can't sleep at night because I'm so angry. It was even worse before I knew I was bipolar, because I wasn't aware that it wasn't normal. Same thing if something upsetting happens, like I make a stupid mistake in traffic, I'll keep having these "flashbacks" and panic attacks about it for days or even weeks.

At a rational level I do realize that it's pointless because it ends up hurting me a lot more than whoever/whatever I'm angry at (especially since I tend to keep it inside), but it's really hard to control. When I'm depressed or dysphoric, I'd say it's even next to impossible to control it. Sometimes I get a little better at keeping it in check for a while, but I'll often relapse when I'm tired, depressed, or hypomanic.

Sometimes I also have these stretches of a few days where I'm just angry and really irritable all the time but I have no clue why, it seems to come out of nowhere. I just walk around all day feeling like I want to look for a fight or punch something, and just feeling generally fed up with the world. Do other people experience that as well?

I have no better word than YES.

I call it "rumination" when the same scene/emotion (almost always anger) plays on loop in my mind day after day.

Like right now...I had lunch yesterday with a woman I used to work as a volunteer with. She said something that I felt shamed me. I wish I had followed my gut instinct and never gone to lunch with her because now the whole situation is looping inside my mind until I feel like I'm going crazy.

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by BethRags

I have no better word than YES.

I call it "rumination" when the same scene/emotion (almost always anger) plays on loop in my mind day after day.

Like right now...I had lunch yesterday with a woman I used to work as a volunteer with. She said something that I felt shamed me. I wish I had followed my gut instinct and never gone to lunch with her because now the whole situation is looping inside my mind until I feel like I'm going crazy.

Yeah, it's so incredibly exhausting, I feel for you. Is it linked to any particular mood for you? For me I think it's worst during depression and dysphoric/mixed moods. I can't believe how I used to not realize it was abnormal.

Yes, I think it's considered normal by psychologists. Let me explain with a brief story:

I've always known that I've had ADHD, even before I received an official diagnosis. The symptoms just "fit me to a T." Then when it was suggested that maybe I had BP instead of ADHD, that's when I discovered a huge overlap in ADHD and BP symptoms. When I read more and more about the symptoms of ADHD and BP, I learned that there was a marked difference in how people with BP express their anger vs how ADHDers and Neurotypicals express their anger. Supposedly a standard question that psychologists ask parents about their child's anger is, "Can the child be calmed down?" Apparently children with BP cannot be calmed down and remain angry/sad for hours after a specific trigger, which is significantly longer than the typical 5-10 minutes that an ADHD or neurotypical child would remain angry/sad. That's how a lot of psychologists can figure out if there is a mood problem, some sort of emotional dysregulation as part of ADHD/Autism/etc., or no problem at all (i.e., normal emotional responses).

Anyway, here's an interesting article about BP anger: Bipolar Children: The Struggle With Anger - Bipolar Disorder Center - Everyday Health

I know the article is about children, but I've learned a lot by reading about children with BP. Additionally, I think a lot of us still have an "inner child" where we WANT to throw a hissy fit, or WANT to kick things around, or WANT to hit people, etc. etc. because we're angry. However, most of us can restrain ourselves from making a "scene" in public because we're adults and we know it's not "socially acceptable" for adults to do so. But just because we can restrain ourselves, it doesn't mean that our inner child isn't screaming his/her head off. We're still a lot like children in that respect, and I think a lot of us wish we could do what children can get away with.

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

I know the article is about children, but I've learned a lot by reading about children with BP. Additionally, I think a lot of us still have an "inner child" where we WANT to throw a hissy fit, or WANT to kick things around, or WANT to hit people, etc. etc. because we're angry. However, most of us can restrain ourselves from making a "scene" in public because we're adults and we know it's not "socially acceptable" for adults to do so. But just because we can restrain ourselves, it doesn't mean that our inner child isn't screaming his/her head off. We're still a lot like children in that respect, and I think a lot of us wish we could do what children can get away with.

That's very interesting, I didn't know about the difference in emotional regulation between ADHD and mood disorders! I did read somewhere that bipolar people are often misdiagnosed with ADHD in childhood (which happened to me as well). It's nice to know about this distinguishing factor.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by FluffyDinosaur

Yeah, it's so incredibly exhausting, I feel for you. Is it linked to any particular mood for you? For me I think it's worst during depression and dysphoric/mixed moods. I can't believe how I used to not realize it was abnormal.

I wish I had a good and clear answer to your excellent question. If I'm manic I will tend to act out in anger/rage. Depressed or mixed state...I'll feel like crawling in bed, and I am actually exhausted from the ruminating.

Regardless of mood, what I'm trying to do when the rumination won't stop is self-care. For example, take a refreshing shower and give myself a mini-pedicure. Light candles, incense, and play music. Color my hair a fun color. Do chores - surprisingly, accomplishing chores helps me feel empowered and can disrupt the hamster-on-a-wheel thoughts.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

Yes, I think it's considered normal by psychologists. Let me explain with a brief story:

I've always known that I've had ADHD, even before I received an official diagnosis. The symptoms just "fit me to a T." Then when it was suggested that maybe I had BP instead of ADHD, that's when I discovered a huge overlap in ADHD and BP symptoms. When I read more and more about the symptoms of ADHD and BP, I learned that there was a marked difference in how people with BP express their anger vs how ADHDers and Neurotypicals express their anger. Supposedly a standard question that psychologists ask parents about their child's anger is, "Can the child be calmed down?" Apparently children with BP cannot be calmed down and remain angry/sad for hours after a specific trigger, which is significantly longer than the typical 5-10 minutes that an ADHD or neurotypical child would remain angry/sad. That's how a lot of psychologists can figure out if there is a mood problem, some sort of emotional dysregulation as part of ADHD/Autism/etc., or no problem at all (i.e., normal emotional responses).

Anyway, here's an interesting article about BP anger: Bipolar Children: The Struggle With Anger - Bipolar Disorder Center - Everyday Health

I know the article is about children, but I've learned a lot by reading about children with BP. Additionally, I think a lot of us still have an "inner child" where we WANT to throw a hissy fit, or WANT to kick things around, or WANT to hit people, etc. etc. because we're angry. However, most of us can restrain ourselves from making a "scene" in public because we're adults and we know it's not "socially acceptable" for adults to do so. But just because we can restrain ourselves, it doesn't mean that our inner child isn't screaming his/her head off. We're still a lot like children in that respect, and I think a lot of us wish we could do what children can get away with.

Once, a therapist told me that deep inside, we are all 6 year olds in adult bodies and have learned how to act civilized...but the feelings inside are the same as when we were children.

I've been reading some about BP in children lately. The article you posted is certainly thought provoking. I was a severely depressed/anxious child. I had terrible rage outbursts - but never at school, they were always at home and more likely when I was alone.
By teen years I had serious issues with authority figures and structure of any kind.

The rumination (as I call it)...those endlessly circling thoughts are almost always about anger/rage (and beneath the anger, shame and pain).

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by BethRags

Regardless of mood, what I'm trying to do when the rumination won't stop is self-care. For example, take a refreshing shower and give myself a mini-pedicure. Light candles, incense, and play music. Color my hair a fun color. Do chores - surprisingly, accomplishing chores helps me feel empowered and can disrupt the hamster-on-a-wheel thoughts.

The self-care is indeed a good point. I sometimes find it difficult though, because when I'm angry I have a hard time being compassionate even towards myself. One thing that does kind of help for me is to watch some stand-up comedy, especially dark humor. With that I can sort of let out some of the anger and sometimes turn an angry mood into just a really sarcastic one, which maybe isn't a lot better but at least it's not quite as exhausting.

I used to actively seek out blogs and such about whatever I was angry about, and just ruminate on it and get even more angry. I try not to do that anymore. I don't even watch the news anymore because it gets me too worked up. Usually it's just more of the same misery anyway, and the few times that something really important happens I'll hear it through the grapevine. That was probably one of the best decisions I've ever made for my peace of mind.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by FluffyDinosaur

The self-care is indeed a good point. I sometimes find it difficult though, because when I'm angry I have a hard time being compassionate even towards myself. One thing that does kind of help for me is to watch some stand-up comedy, especially dark humor. With that I can sort of let out some of the anger and sometimes turn an angry mood into just a really sarcastic one, which maybe isn't a lot better but at least it's not quite as exhausting.

I used to actively seek out blogs and such about whatever I was angry about, and just ruminate on it and get even more angry. I try not to do that anymore. I don't even watch the news anymore because it gets me too worked up. Usually it's just more of the same misery anyway, and the few times that something really important happens I'll hear it through the grapevine. That was probably one of the best decisions I've ever made for my peace of mind.

You have some great ways to cope. Spot on regarding the news. And dark comedy - for sure a way to release anger, or at least intervene with the looping.

[Nammu]

I only have trouble with mood dis regulation when I'm in a episode. And then mostly with the mixed episodes. When I'm stable no.

[Gabyunbound]

I think it was actually someone on PC who once said that, according to research, BP is a disorder of moods, and BPD is a disorder of emotions (aka emotional dysregulation). I'm not saying you meet the criteria for BPD (there are lots of traits, the most salient being fear of abandonment).

I don't think emotional dysregulation is a part of Bipolar Disorder, except in the sense that when we are stable, or at baseline, we are who we are, with all of the additional challenges we may face. One of those can be emotional dysregulation (I think in response to environmental stimuli), which I think is different from mood/BP episodes, which often come out of nowhere, or perhaps as a reaction to stress, etc. Additionally, I think emotional dysregulation can last for a relatively short period of time, whereas Bipolar mood episodes last, usually, for a week or more.

The self care talked about here is key and I've read some wonderful options!

At least at baseline, I don't suffer from this, but I do suffer from a great deal of anxiety. Self care (breathing and other exercises recommended by my therapist) has helped a lot. Also, for example when driving, I tend to catastrophize and be convinced that I'm going to get in an accident; reminding myself again and again that this is not the case, helps. Focusing on what I can control has helped, as have other suggestions from my therapist. Talking about it with her has also been helpful. When I'm hypomanic, all anxiety disappears; oh what heaven that is!!! Until it takes a nasty turn to mania.

I wish you the best of luck. With the self care you have mentioned, and endorsed, it sounds like you're on the road to conquering this, or at least ameliorating it!

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by Gabyunbound

I think it was actually someone on PC who once said that, according to research, BP is a disorder of moods, and BPD is a disorder of emotions (aka emotional dysregulation). I'm not saying you meet the criteria for BPD (there are lots of traits, the most salient being fear of abandonment).

I don't think emotional dysregulation is a part of Bipolar Disorder, except in the sense that when we are stable, or at baseline, we are who we are, with all of the additional challenges we may face. One of those can be emotional dysregulation (I think in response to environmental stimuli), which I think is different from mood/BP episodes, which often come out of nowhere, or perhaps as a reaction to stress, etc. Additionally, I think emotional dysregulation can last for a relatively short period of time, whereas Bipolar mood episodes last, usually, for a week or more.

The self care talked about here is key and I've read some wonderful options!

At least at baseline, I don't suffer from this, but I do suffer from a great deal of anxiety. Self care (breathing and other exercises recommended by my therapist) has helped a lot. Also, for example when driving, I tend to catastrophize and be convinced that I'm going to get in an accident; reminding myself again and again that this is not the case, helps. Focusing on what I can control has helped, as have other suggestions from my therapist. Talking about it with her has also been helpful. When I'm hypomanic, all anxiety disappears; oh what heaven that is!!! Until it takes a nasty turn to mania.

I wish you the best of luck. With the self care you have mentioned, and endorsed, it sounds like you're on the road to conquering this, or at least ameliorating it!

You're right that it could simply be a comorbid thing. In my case, if not due to the bipolar, it might be due to bad reactions to stress. I can rule out BPD in my case, as my psychiatrist tested for that, plus my mother has it so I know the symptoms.

On the other hand, I definitely notice the anger issues being worse during depressions or mixed episodes, so I don't know, it still feels like part of the bipolar symptoms from my perspective, maybe related to irritability. The bad reactions to news are different; in my case I think those are probably due to some past trauma that I have.

[*Beth*]

Thank you, Gabyunbound. To me, it feels like anxiety is what fuels the extreme rumination. In other words, I become anxious (and angry and hurt) about something that happened then the looping rumination starts.

It's the looping rumination that becomes the problem for me, in that the same sounds/scenes/words/environment/emotional reactions, etc. keep repeatedly "playing" in my mind like a broken record. Eventually, after 2 or 3 days of the rumination, I start feeling crazy from the repetition. (For example this is the 3rd day of my mind churning over the incident on Friday. I feel like there's a switch in my brain that won't turn off).

Actually, I found this article; it's really interesting! I'd place a bet that many people with BD struggle with this:

Bipolar Disorder and Grappling With Obsessive Thinking | bpHope.com

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by BethRags

Thank you, Gabyunbound. To me, it feels like anxiety is what fuels the extreme rumination. In other words, I become anxious (and angry and hurt) about something that happened then the looping rumination starts.

It's the looping rumination that becomes the problem for me, in that the same sounds/scenes/words/environment/emotional reactions, etc. keep repeatedly "playing" in my mind like a broken record. Eventually, after 2 or 3 days of the rumination, I start feeling crazy from the repetition. (For example this is the 3rd day of my mind churning over the incident on Friday. I feel like there's a switch in my brain that won't turn off).

Actually, I found this article; it's really interesting! I'd place a bet that many people with BD struggle with this:

Bipolar Disorder and Grappling With Obsessive Thinking | bpHope.com

Yes, well put, thank you. I didn't quite manage to put it into words before, but this definitely applies to me as well. By the way, I noticed the article also mentions obsessive thinking about things you're enthusiastic about. I've experienced that, too.

[yellow_fleurs]

Emotional regulation and personality is something I've thought about a lot recently. I am trying to determine the difference for me (as you can see from my previous reply). Perhaps I feel a bit uncertain about the concept of personality. I think it is supposed to be a fixed part of you, yet what if emotional regulation changes over time? What if you are able to work on it with lifestyle changes (e.g. diet and exercise) and through mindfulness? Other aspects of my personality, like how extroverted I am, adventurous, empathetic, etc tend to not change so easily unless anxiety or depression interferes, but emotional regulation does seem to change for me. I am also wondering if personality is how sensitive your emotions are or how you respond to them? Like if you find yourself quick to anger, but realize it's just an overactive emotion and calm yourself down rationally, which part is emotional regulation?

Anyways I am rambling, just something that was on my mind. Thanks for letting me think out loud.