I’m not sure how I feel, and that’s what I hate the most about the human condition – no matter how self-aware I am, I always find myself in some crazy mix of emotions where I can begin to describe what it is I feel. I do luckily, have a predominant emotion of annoyance and distrust. For the record, nothing has happened to trigger these emotions (that I am aware of), but they are ones I am struggling with right now. What is it I’m expecting from this life? Because I am unhappy, not satisfied, and what I need is unattainable. I promise to make sense soon.

I don’t trust people. I don’t have a want to trust people. I don’t have a want to deal with people, or their drama, or their issues, or be bound to them. However, I am tired of being alone, but too fed up with others to fix that. It’s a conundrum. It’s like one step forward and three giant leaps back every time. I’m doing everything right – I take my meds, I listen to my therapist, I do the best I can – but it just isn’t working. I don’t know how to fix personality flaws. Some may see this as something that just comes with being bipolar, or some other co-morbid condition... but I am not so sure. Maybe this is just who I am? The feelings have own grown more intense with time. So although I have a want to be more active and social, I’m too fed up with people to even begin to try.

Does anyone else feel this way? How do you combat the feelings? I know I can’t isolate myself forever or expect to live in a world where interaction is so limited. Just curious your thoughts and feelings. I have irritation and frustration. Its not fear, or sadness that drives these feelings– it’s annoyance.

So, in an effort to make this relatable and at least partially viable for this forum – let me pose my question his way: Do you think being bipolar increases isolation for any given reason, besides stigma alone?

And to those powers that be that are reading this, I ask you to not move this thread. I posted here in the bipolar forum because it’s the community in which I relate and in which I suffer. I would appreciate it if my selection of thread were to be honored.

Hi MarcusAurelius. I agree with you that this thread belongs here.

Your question is a really tough one. I think there are potentially many factors in what you are feeling, and of course I can't be sure exactly what they are for you. I can only speculate about some that I, personally, have. In my case, stigma is not a major issue, but is not a non issue either. My main ones are likely:

* My bipolar (and perhaps personality) pushing people away or repulsing others. Yes, this would seem all my "fault", but many are not so tolerant or forgiving in this world. Also, some things that anger or intimidate others are born from others' issues, not mine. No matter what, I often have a glass wall formed around me. It takes a while for me to trust. Even that fact is a barrier. Other times I am too expansive. That has its negatives, too.

* Desire to isolate because of my illness symptoms. This is a huge topic, too. Being overwhelmed by life, at times, is a big part of it. Inability to meet others' and even my own expectations for myself. The latter can be the worst.

I have different issues with females than males. My trust issues are primarily with female relationships. I do much better online than in-person.

Being in my late 40s, it sometimes does seem too late to learn how to make major changes of certain sorts. Like you, I still yearn for some anyway.

I'll just leave it there. I've had trouble expressing myself adequately, lately.

Sorry to hear you are feeling so low Marc. I know from our recent exchanges that you are not always this way. Could it be your job getting you down? It's hard to work full-time with bipolar and you are just starting a new job. I hope you'll take it easy on yourself and give yourself time to adjust. When we transform our lives we must expect to be uncomfortable again and again. It's a great thing you are doing, starting over with a new job. I really admire you for it! Far beyond what i could do!

I also feel the annoyance, irritation, frustration, dis-satisfaction and unhappiness. I think the French word ennui captures it all. It's hard to be putting a lot of energy out and getting so little back. I don't know what to do about it. I usually just start limiting the energy i put out so i'm not so bitter but with you working full-time that's not an option. I'm on disability benefits. I just find it so helpful to be able to adjust my lifestyle to whatever mood i am in without jeopardizing my income.

Your question: Isolation and is it necessarily a feature of bipolar beyond stigma. Yes, i think so. I find that i can't maintain year-round activities (like friendships) because of my mood swings. When i'm depressed no one wants to know me i am such a downer. When i'm manic everyone wants to know me because i am such a joy to behold. When i'm manic i just look around for the closest person to have fun with and i usually find one. When i'm depressed i just want to be alone and don't miss people.

My IRL support group offers peer-to-peer arrangements where an experienced member makes an agreement to do one social activity a week with a new member for six months. There is a small subsidization for activities. People say it is helpful. Sometimes when people are down they just sit in the car and try and chat. People report that it is quite helpful. Is there anything like this in your area? I did try this sort of thing but it was with a volunteer from the community who was not mentally ill and it was disastrous, so painful. I'm definitely borderline!

Or are you able to accompany your mom on her daily outings for fun?

Anyways, i am certainly right there with you with the ennui. I tried hard to have fun yesterday with little success and felt bitter for putting all that energy out there and getting so little back. In a way tho, i am glad i went to the art studio even if all i did for the second hour was sit quietly and look around at others. I love to people-watch. I'm a real ogler! I even like going to the mall and sitting on a comfy bench outside a nice hair salon / barbershop and watch the haircuts and the drama of the staff. The hairdressers all dress quite sexy, i'm sure to maximize tips and the talk is bawdy and the language blue. I take my favorite pop and wander around in the warmth with the smooth footing and poke around. It's a great low-stress activity which helps my loneliness and i don't have to talk to anyone.

So, for me, isolation is a feature of my bipolar but one i cope with fairly well. It gets easier as you get older, Marc. You're not yet 30 and the drive in you to socialize and find a mate is still strong. Any support groups near you? I found that was a great way to make friends when i was your age. I had some high times with people i met in support groups!

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by MarcusAurelius

I’m not sure how I feel, and that’s what I hate the most about the human condition – no matter how self-aware I am, I always find myself in some crazy mix of emotions where I can begin to describe what it is I feel.

I almost always feel the same way. I do believe the feeling has to do with BD. Bipolars have stronger, more intense feelings/moods/emotions. For me, they are jumbled up in my mind and by the time I choose one, another has popped up.

I do luckily, have a predominant emotion of annoyance and distrust. For the record, nothing has happened to trigger these emotions (that I am aware of), but they are ones I am struggling with right now. What is it I’m expecting from this life? Because I am unhappy, not satisfied, and what I need is unattainable. I promise to make sense soon.

I don’t trust people. I don’t have a want to trust people. I don’t have a want to deal with people, or their drama, or their issues, or be bound to them.

I'm nearly positive that I know how you feel.

However, I am tired of being alone, but too fed up with others to fix that. It’s a conundrum. It’s like one step forward and three giant leaps back every time.

A conundrum, absolutely. A no-win situation.

I’m doing everything right – I take my meds, I listen to my therapist, I do the best I can – but it just isn’t working. I don’t know how to fix personality flaws. Some may see this as something that just comes with being bipolar, or some other co-morbid condition... but I am not so sure. Maybe this is just who I am?

I struggle with this constantly...is this part of the illness, or is it just the way I am? Do I even have an illness...maybe I'm just made this way and mental health professionals think I have a disorder, but I really don't. Maybe I'm making it all up.

Those thoughts occupy my mind until I'm exhausted.

The feelings have own grown more intense with time. So although I have a want to be more active and social, I’m too fed up with people to even begin to try.


*raises hand*

Does anyone else feel this way? How do you combat the feelings? I know I can’t isolate myself forever or expect to live in a world where interaction is so limited. Just curious your thoughts and feelings. I have irritation and frustration. Its not fear, or sadness that drives these feelings– it’s annoyance.

So, in an effort to make this relatable and at least partially viable for this forum – let me pose my question his way: Do you think being bipolar increases isolation for any given reason, besides stigma alone?

Yes, I do think so. I believe that BD makes walls around us that cause the feelings of isolation and of not truly connecting with other people. For me, I'm anxious around other people because I feel I have to hide my genuine self and be a one-dimensional person, meaning I must not show any intense feelings. If I do the person(s) will be afraid of me, or not like me, or regret being with me. It's so draining, it's easier not to socialize in the first place. But I remain isolated to an extreme.

And to those powers that be that are reading this, I ask you to not move this thread. I posted here in the bipolar forum because it’s the community in which I relate and in which I suffer. I would appreciate it if my selection of thread were to be honored.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[fern46]

I think perhaps the bipolar mind is predisposed to these types of thoughts and feelings. It is certainly a possibility. However, I believe one can choose to maintain a pattern of annoyance and distrust, or they can take measures to foster a different type of experience. It is the belief system of the individual that makes the difference in my opinion. I do not mean to say that we can always leverage mind over matter to overcome a legitimate illness, but I do feel that there are methods of managing our emotional states so that we can experience preferable states at times when we are mostly well.

You've stated you do not wish to deal with people or their drama or be bound to them. Is it your belief that all interactions create a drama filled state? Is it your belief that allowing someone into your life means you have to engage in drama? Do you have to trust fully to experience a valuable exchange? I feel like there are alternatives to explore here. It is possible to engage with humans without it being annoying. However, it requires an altered perspective on your part.

I do not see people the same as you. I carry very different beliefs. I believe all individuals have the capacity to engage with me in a way that can be mutually beneficial. I believe that if I put my best self forward it inspires others to do the same. I trust in that truth and in myself. I believe people have the capacity to be drama filled and annoying, but I try not to foster an environment where that kind of behavior is what naturally comes forward. I believe that people can be untrustworthy things, but I offer my trust for the moments I am with them.

So... For example let's say I'm shopping. People in stores can be annoying. Drama happens there all the time. I walk with my head high and I smile at everyone. I ask someone for help with a smile and a please. I thank them for their assistance and their time afterward and wish them a nice rest of their day. I ask the cashier how their day has been and I listen even if they tell me it has been a mess. I find they then don't then really complain as they speak. It is more that they appreciate the kind ear I offer. I often offer a joke or a smile or words of encouragement to brighten their day somehow. This all shifts the experience from 'dealing with people at the store' to 'spending time with humans'. I did this the other day at Wal-Mart and the cashier told me a wonderful story of how a stranger did something thoughtful and unexpected for him on Black Friday. It was a positive experience with a stranger all because I asked him about his day.

When I used to work full time I used to make it a point to ask people how they were every day. I was genuine with my inquiry and it was well received. When they offered to share with me, I listened. I learned about their families. I learned about their pets. I learned about their hobbies and yes, sometimes they shared the 'drama' of their lives. However, the exchange didn't feel negative because they were being heard and supported. These same people reciprocated and asked me about my own life. In time, I became good friends with many of them. I even befriended many of the people who might be considered jerks or those who are hard to get to know. I carried the belief that I could be friends with anyone and it became my reality.

I have family members and friends who will gossip and participate in dramatic exchanges with others. My experiences with them rarely contain that kind of material. I steer the conversations away from that and into more preferable subjects. Or, if we must go down that road I offer support and encouragement to create a positive plan to move forward in a way that honors the integrity of everyone.

I work a lot with teams and it is my belief that any time we experience another human we are in a team for that moment in time. Bad teams stem from bad teammates. We can inspire others to be better teammates by being better ourselves. My best advice would be to spend time thinking through what you would like to experience. Spend time fostering those qualities in yourself. Put those qualities out front and center when you interact with others. You might then find that you begin to attract an entirely different set of experiences.

Food for thought... Take only what resonates.

@BirdDancer ,. @whatever2013 , @BethRags Thank you all for your words -- I don't feel so alone in all of this. I would like to say I appreciate each and every answer as it was sincere and compassionate, so thank you. I live in a very small town and my social circle is even smaller (let's just be honest -- it's me, my mom and my cat lol). A lot of support isn't out there -- but I'll figure out something.



@fern46 I do see things a bit differently than you do fern46, but I think it's great you have the ability to transform and create positive experiences. If I had a mentality , perhaps it would be somewhat possible, but I just don't see the world that way. You asked if my belief was that all interactions create a drama filled state? Is it your belief that allowing someone into your life means you have to engage in drama. Short answer is -- no, but it's a bit more complex that that.


However, you can't control or change people -- and people will have their own agenda. No amount of wishing, hoping, "good vibes" or sincerity I put out there will ultimately change that fact. What I mean is, despite believing everyone is 'basically good' or are looking to put their best foot forward, it doesn't change reality. I've been jaded enough times to develop these sentiments. It's not worth filtering or the time it takes to perhaps find that good friend. It's not for me anyway. The gossip, lies, deceitfulness, or just manipulative behaviors are all I've really ever experienced. Genuine people are rare to come by, and may never come despite looking. I don't hate people, or think they're all out to get me -- it's just enough experience has taught me having your guard up is a must, and sometimes it's best just to never let it down. One of my biggest frustrations are ulterior motives and manipulation. A classic example -- my mother used to ask me to go to the store with her under the premise of carrying the larger and heavier things for her from the store... which in turn turned into "I don't have the money to pay for this right now, can you?" when we get to the checkout (money I'll never see again, mind you). Right there is a case of manipulation. Friendships haven't been much better in that respect. I accept the fact I am mentally ill and have unhealthy coping skills. I'm not denying that this mentality is unhealthy and unrealistic for the world we live in... but it's who I am today, and it's a pretty permanent feeling.


Does positivity attract positivity? Sure. But I struggle to even keep myself afloat. I don't think I can handle others at the same time, especially when we can't equally support each other. Anyway-- I do appreciate you taking the time to answer.

[*Beth*]

You're so welcome. Personally, I'm a giving person by nature...being warm, friendly, polite, being a good listener...all very important to me.


At the same time, walking through the grocery store smiling and saying "hello" to people and receiving stone-faces in response - or worse, people staring at their cell phone screen while pushing their grocery cart...how many smiles and hellos does it take before the incongruousness between my effort to be friendly and the terrible hurt I feel inside just becomes too much of a burden?

It's very, very difficult to be an ultra-sensitive person with a mental illness and not become jaded. So I certainly understand what you've described.


Btw, I'm curious...does your mom truly not have the money she asks you for?

[fern46]

Originally Posted by MarcusAurelius

@BirdDancer ,. @whatever2013 , @BethRags Thank you all for your words -- I don't feel so alone in all of this. I would like to say I appreciate each and every answer as it was sincere and compassionate, so thank you. I live in a very small town and my social circle is even smaller (let's just be honest -- it's me, my mom and my cat lol). A lot of support isn't out there -- but I'll figure out something.



@fern46 I do see things a bit differently than you do fern46, but I think it's great you have the ability to transform and create positive experiences. If I had a mentality , perhaps it would be somewhat possible, but I just don't see the world that way. You asked if my belief was that all interactions create a drama filled state? Is it your belief that allowing someone into your life means you have to engage in drama. Short answer is -- no, but it's a bit more complex that that.


However, you can't control or change people -- and people will have their own agenda. No amount of wishing, hoping, "good vibes" or sincerity I put out there will ultimately change that fact. What I mean is, despite believing everyone is 'basically good' or are looking to put their best foot forward, it doesn't change reality. I've been jaded enough times to develop these sentiments. It's not worth filtering or the time it takes to perhaps find that good friend. It's not for me anyway. The gossip, lies, deceitfulness, or just manipulative behaviors are all I've really ever experienced. Genuine people are rare to come by, and may never come despite looking. I don't hate people, or think they're all out to get me -- it's just enough experience has taught me having your guard up is a must, and sometimes it's best just to never let it down. One of my biggest frustrations are ulterior motives and manipulation. A classic example -- my mother used to ask me to go to the store with her under the premise of carrying the larger and heavier things for her from the store... which in turn turned into "I don't have the money to pay for this right now, can you?" when we get to the checkout (money I'll never see again, mind you). Right there is a case of manipulation. Friendships haven't been much better in that respect. I accept the fact I am mentally ill and have unhealthy coping skills. I'm not denying that this mentality is unhealthy and unrealistic for the world we live in... but it's who I am today, and it's a pretty permanent feeling.


Does positivity attract positivity? Sure. But I struggle to even keep myself afloat. I don't think I can handle others at the same time, especially when we can't equally support each other. Anyway-- I do appreciate you taking the time to answer.

I appreciate your reply and I feel like I can empathize with where you're coming from and how you've been treated. I support you regardless of what you choose. You have a good heart. It continually shines through when you post. I did feel like I should clarify a few things. My world isn't all rainbows and unicorns.

People most definitely always have an agenda. Why wouldn't they? I don't put up with crap and I don't allow others to manipulate me. I'm known by my close friends as a no nonsense kind of girl with a sharp tongue. However, I don't walk around with my guard up as I am only manipulated if I allow for it. Fool me once, sure. Fool me twice? Absolutely not. I offer the benefit of the doubt first and then adjust if a new strategy is needed. I do this even if my own mother is involved. In fact she wasn't a part of my life for the past 15 years because of very poor behavior on her part despite my best effort. I'm not a punching bag. I'm trained to diffuse conflict and have learned sometimes it cannot be avoided. That is a truth, but it is the exception to the rule in my life.

I was quite awful as a child. I manipulated people all the time. I always had my guard up. I believed I had to scrap and fight my way through life. I ended up sad and lonely and I changed. I still fight for what I want, but I do it by radiating my own energy as opposed to fighting whatever my 'opponent' is putting out.

Does positivity foster positivity? Of course. It isn't that simple as you've stated. People are complex and they can sense what kind of energy you're carrying. Guarded people take me quite some time to connect with in many cases. They usually sense I am not a threat, but they still proceed as though I may harm them. Eventually, it usually works itself out. When it doesn't I don't stick around because it is a drain of my energy and it isn't my business to change people. Genuine people might be hard to come by... or perhaps they migrate to be with those who are kindred to their nature and naturally give back what they offer.

I choose positivity because it makes ME happy. I am doing what adds value in my life. It is how I prefer to be. I will not give that up simply because others around me make different choices. I respect their right to be as they are, but I am not changing how I choose to be to try to battle against their choices. I just do my thing and I find that typically it generates more of what I want. When it doesn't, I accept it for what it is and either deal with it or navigate to a better experience.

You are 100% right. You cannot control or change people. I am suggesting though you can absolutely change whether or not they are controlling you. I am suggesting you are equally as important as me or anyone else. I am suggesting you should have your own agenda and you should be able to foster it despite the jerks that might stand in your way.

[KristenRenee]

Oh wow! Boy do I know how you feel. I live alone and don't have much social interaction. Sometimes I cry because I loathe people and want to be by myself and other times I'm so lonely I would give anything to talk to someone. But I haven't solved the mystery. I know I should not isolate myself and should get out and meet others, but part of my can't stand people anymore; attitudes, moods, actions, etc... I feel like I'm stuck in a rut and can't progress. I don't know what the right answer is but I myself pray everyday and try to do my best.