[Miss Laura]

Hey guys,

My Sister and I were talking and she says mental illness is a selfish thing to have. OK hear her out...

- We cancel sometimes at the last minute

- We lie about how we are/who we are when in a manic or depressed phase

- I lie to her and my family about where I'm at with the whole bipolar thing ie not medicated, psychotic, manic etc etc

I have told her as I tell everyone in my life I hide it to protect them from seeing it, worrying about it/me, worrying about my sanity/safety

We were watching a TV programme called Modern Love in it Anne Hathaway's character has bipolar. She has a great job but gets fired too many sick days, falls in love due to a manic episode and stands him up twice due to rolling from manic to depressed.

This is how it all came about re being selfish.

What do you guys think? Are we slightly selfish? Tbh I was a little hurt but I know she didn't mean it in a malicious way she tries to understand me.

[Soupe du jour]

I think some bipolar episode behavior can be far from positive and hurtful to others. I don't believe that that makes us bad when we're in episodes, but the behavior is negative. In this case, it necessitates proper treatment. If we choose not to at least TRY to curb such negative behavior, then I see that we would indeed be at great fault. We must be held accountable in some way shape or form in cases where effort would help, but we don't make it. Of course I see undiagnosed people who totally lack insight as "yet to be clued in" that something is wrong. Unfortunately, many of us must suffer consequences for that to happen.

Your sister's feedback sounds helpful in that she is cluing you in that your bipolar-induced behavior is dysfunctional and/or hurtful. It seems like you recognize that, and that's very good. I'm glad you aren't angry at her in response. However, I also hope that if you put in a great effort to improve your situation that she will give you credit for that. Open conversation is good.

[*Beth*]

I found that show helpful. Cashart posted about it here some months ago.

Anyway. Selfish. I understand what your sister means, I think. Except I wouldn't use the term "selfish" as much as "required self-centeredness." Sometimes people with MI have to be more self-centered than neurotypicals do, simply by the very nature of our illnesses. Also medication demands that we pay attention to side effects - with all that involves - and such things as having to be on a med schedule. So we might have to be home earlier or adjust our activities to fit our med routine. Also, we have to regulate our sleep patterns.

So I see MI as the same as any illness. People with the flu aren't selfish, but they have to take care of themselves. Same as any illness, whether temporary or permanent.

Also, yes...it's true that people with MI can be really self focused, even obsessively so, especially if we're not on the proper meds.

[fern46]

You are making an assumption hiding the truth is better for your sister. She is asking for the truth. If I were her I would want the same as it hurts far more to be lied to.

Is it possible you are hiding because it is easier for you to behave like you want when she doesn't know? In the past you've indicated it is somewhat of a thrill to keep the info hidden.

I would take a step back from your behavior and look at the true motivation behind it. Only then can you know if your actions are selfish. If you look and see that you are behaving in a way that puts your needs before what she is asking for, you potentially have an issue. Sometimes we need to put ourselves first, but if it is chronic and against her wishes, it might be time to make a change.

You can always answer truthfully without laying your personal information bare. It is perfectly ok to tell someone you don't want to share how you're doing or feeling. Maybe there's a way to protect your privacy and meet her needs as well. It doesn't need to be either or. Integrity is always worth a second look. Much love to you as always Miss Laura.

[FluffyDinosaur]

I can see how mental illness can hurt others and be a major pain for them, definitely, but selfish? No, just no. Not unless you consider it selfish to have a heart condition or diabetes or any other physical condition. I could just as well claim that people who think mental illness is selfish are themselves selfish, as apparently they think only about the inconvenience to themselves rather than the pain suffered by the person who actually has the illness.

My wife doesn't like me when I'm in a bad place, and that's totally understandable, but it's not like it's a walk in the park for me either or like I choose to be that way. I've cancelled a lot of things at the last minute, including a wedding, and I feel really bad about that. But really, who gets the worse deal, the person who is bummed that someone cancelled on them, or the person who is going through such crippling depression that they just can't summon the energy to drag themselves out the door?

Maybe it's the fact that in mental illnesses like bipolar, a lot of it goes on in your head or behind closed doors, so people don't see that. They only see the superficial effects like the ones you listed, and then conclude that it's selfish without any kind of real understanding about what's going on.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by FluffyDinosaur

I can see how mental illness can hurt others and be a major pain for them, definitely, but selfish? No, just no. Not unless you consider it selfish to have a heart condition or diabetes or any other physical condition. I could just as well claim that people who think mental illness is selfish are themselves selfish, as apparently they think only about the inconvenience to themselves rather than the pain suffered by the person who actually has the illness.

My wife doesn't like me when I'm in a bad place, and that's totally understandable, but it's not like it's a walk in the park for me either or like I choose to be that way. I've cancelled a lot of things at the last minute, including a wedding, and I feel really bad about that. But really, who gets the worse deal, the person who is bummed that someone cancelled on them, or the person who is going through such crippling depression that they just can't summon the energy to drag themselves out the door?

Maybe it's the fact that in mental illnesses like bipolar, a lot of it goes on in your head or behind closed doors, so people don't see that. They only see the superficial effects like the ones you listed, and then conclude that it's selfish without any kind of real understanding about what's going on.

This. 100%. I'll be happy to be unselfish and share my disorders with whomever wants to bear them.

Yes, sometimes our behaviors hurt others but I'd go so far to say that's humanity, not mental illness. It's not only mental illness that we hide from loved ones. We hide other illnesses too. We do other hurtful things, simply as humans, not due to our disorders.

I agree that maybe your sister is presenting a poorly worded hurt she feels. Maybe she wants to be there for you and feels pushed away. I would engage her more (calmly) in what she thinks is selfish about it and how she'd want to be treated or how she'd want to be involved.

I've often heard people make this claim and it's usually to put blame on the mentally ill that we are just putting on a show or attention seeking. But maybe she doesn't mean that. Maybe she truly wants to help.

[busymomof5]

Selfish? No. I see it as survival. Frankly, not one person in my life really wants to know how I'm doing. They give lip service. My mom knows I have a bipolar diagnosis but ignores any discussion of my mental health so I don't tell her. Recently, Inhad a scary manic episode and was delusional. I told her. Her response was to change the subject to her. People don't really want to know.

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by busymomof5

Selfish? No. I see it as survival. Frankly, not one person in my life really wants to know how I'm doing. They give lip service. My mom knows I have a bipolar diagnosis but ignores any discussion of my mental health so I don't tell her. Recently, Inhad a scary manic episode and was delusional. I told her. Her response was to change the subject to her. People don't really want to know.

Yes, that's a major reason for me to keep things mostly to myself as well. People will blame you for keeping them in the dark but they also blame you for being negative and talking about what's going on. It's a no-win situation.

I remember one conversation a guy had with me about moving away from his family

he was thinking about moving away and he asked me what I thought

and I'm like just go. no real thought to if he mightm iss them, or where he might go, just do it. get it over with

and yes: I admit at the time I was thinking about my family, and my experience. usually though I like to think I am a good listener and people have said it to me sometimes.

I know my moodswings have hurt a lot of people, and spoiled a lot of good friendships, too

[Fuzzybear]

No, I do not agree. I was accused by ''family'' of being ''selfish''. While they did not have a serious mood disorder they do imho have a certain other..... disorder .... and enjoy criticising people and putting them down. And Projecting ''bad'' characteristics onto someone else... I'm not saying your sister is like this, it can be hard for others to understand. But genuinely trying to understand is a helpful start

[Miss Laura]

She said it in a loving way if you get me she wasn't mean or anything.

I protect everyone as I don't want them to run away. Many friends have ran away when the bipolar comes out. I currently have no friends. Just family. No one friend wise gives a bleep about me. Life gets complicated when your ill right?

Even when im in a middle of a crisis I stay away from people and lie to protect them all.

I personally see that as a good thing? I don't know maybe I've lost the plot here?? I just don't understand where I'm going wrong

I kind of have an odd stance on this. I believe very much in helping others and caring and in ways being more selfless towards people... but when it comes to your own health, and dealings with others — no one is gonna put you first, except yourself if you allow yourself to.

Perhaps by definition it’s selfish to protect others and yourself, but the fallout is much worse. We can throw the word selfish around on anyone. It is selfish for your sister to make your problems her problems and talk about how they affect her, instead of thinking about how they might affect you , like your illness is all about her. (I don’t believe that, but hopefully you’re seeing what I’m getting at. We can point fingers and redefine who is to blame for being “selfish”. That can back and forth for ages).

Probably not the most popular opinion here , but I think we should be accountable for our actions, try to be better and spare undue stress and heartache when possible. If being selfish is looking out for my health (and the health of others— like family) then you have every right to be selfish.

But to be clear , I’m only commenting on the negative idea of selfishness here. You’re sister is trying to help and be part of a solution and that should be respected. I commend you for taking time to hear her out. We all can be selfish for one reason or another. Being self-absorbed is a bit of a different story in my mind; but I digress. I don’t think you’re being either in this specific situation. Listening and considering your sister shows a lot towards that.

[FluffyDinosaur]

I agree it's good to hear your sister's perspective. I also think it's good to try and minimize the strain your illness puts on others. Like you, I'm also someone who tends to keep it to myself as much as possible; whether that's the best way to go about it is up for debate. That said, I still think it's hurtful and short-sighted to call anyone selfish for being bipolar, no matter how well-intentioned. It just makes you feel that much worse the next time you're in an episode, which is unfair; it sucks quite enough without feeling guilty about it. I hope your sister is open to that perspective as much as you are open to hers.

[*Beth*]

FluffyD has a good point. Being thought of as selfish does add so much extra stress to a person who is already usually beating up on themselves for having a mental illness.

[Miss Laura]

So reading all your comments I'm thinking I am selfish. But I still maintain I'm protecting everyone.

Hear me out OK....

Yes I'm not medicated currently.... been maybe 4 or 5 weeks free

Yes I'm doing good not manic not anything just feel human

Yes I'm meant to call people but i know they will want me on meds and I am kinda well more than kinda more like majorly enjoying being free and having freedom

Yes everyone will want me back on them

I'm not experiencing depression, mania or psychosis. I'm possibly hypo-manic but who knows. No-one can tell?

I've been told by my team I seem happier, chirper, calmer than I have been. I feel tranquil.

You will all think I'm crazy and I respect what you are all saying but life is just good at the moment. Although I am chatty and itching to talk but no-one is willing to chat tonight I've contacted people and they are ignoring me. Someone talk to me lol!!!

[Trippin2.0]

Your motivation as per your own words, is not to protect your loved ones, but to protect yourself from them possibly abandoning you.

That's what needs to be addressed here, not the notion of being selfish.

I do all the things you listed, yet I am open and up front about it, and no I don't bare my soul in order to do so.

If I'm depressed and need to isolate for a bit, I post a WhatsApp status informing my contacts I'll be radio silent, so that nobody worries.

If my stress and anxiety overwhelms me and I can't honour my committments, I cancel on people but let them know I'm not doing well ATM, etc etc.

I keep the communication lines open as far as possible so that my loved ones know what's happening and that I'm coping the best I know how. Or that I'm not coping and need extra support or understanding. A select few (maybe 3 people in total) besides my Pdoc will receive actual details, and that's because they genuinely care and want to understand what I'm going through.

So selfish or not, detailed or not, I believe it's not only responsible to be honest about what you're dealing with, but it also shows respect and integrity toward our loved ones.

My niece hid a lot of her depressive symptoms the past few months and the only good that did was send everyone into a frenzy when she was "suddenly" suicidal.

Which in my opinion was very irresponsible of her because something terrible could have happened had we not been worried about her and able to put the pieces of the puzzle together in time to support her.

Keeping people in the dark is a surefire way to make them worry.

She has now learned the value in being honest, even when she's not sharing every personal detail with whomever enquires about how she's doing.

Everyone needs to be held accountable for their actions, even us who suffer from MI, and that starts with being honest.

Also remember we can't fault anyone for not being there for us if we don't communicate that we actually need them...