[Achy Turtle Armor]

Just curious how many of you heard this as a kid?

"If you don't stop crying, I'll give you something to cry about?"

I did. Just remembered it too. If that's not both invalidating AND threatening, I don't know what is. Makes me angry but I have to let it go. Just wondered how many of us heard that or something similar when they were crying.

[kaliope]

yeah, makes a lot of sense, huh....you want a kid to stop crying so you are going to hit them? I never understood that...my dad was famous for it

[Rainydaiz]

Yes I do but I'd forgotten until I saw this post. Thank you for the reminder. I'll be taking that into next session. Makes sense of a lot of things.

[shezbut]

Oh yeah ~ MANY times!! My Dad said it a few times, with me. But, I heard that from my Grandpa every time we saw the extended family.

My Grandpa was really bad with his temper, and we were over there all of the time!! Not only that, but he & Grandma lived with us for a while (when I was in 3rd grade). I do recall that part of my life being significantly dramatic, as a matter of fact. I'll have to bring this up in T on Tuesday. Thanks for reminding me.

[Achy Turtle Armor]

I didn't mean to cause pain for anyone. I hope discussing with your T will prove helpful. I intend to mention in my next appointment also.

[Rainydaiz]

It didn't cause me pain, but more curiosity and interest. Like a light bulb moment. Thanks for your concern though

[baseline]

My mother says I was a crybaby when I was younger.She laughs when she tells my children how I was a worrier and crybaby !Sad part is she never bothered to find out why I was always so sad. Sadder is that she probably did know and did nothing to comfort me!!!P.S I still cry!

[Phreak]

Yeah, I use to get hit, then I'd cry. I was probably around 3-4, well my earliest memory - and then getting that said to me. i.e. stop crying or I'll hit you again

Hey Turtle, this is gonna sound heartless and emotionless and cold, but I want to say it anyway bcoz I think it adds some value.

I think we all have an infinite number of things we can choose to be angry about, from our pasts. And that anger is justified. However, I think the smart thing to do about it is to:

1 - Understand the possible reasons why those events took place - Our parents may not have known any better, than to hit us or make us cry... their parents may have done the same, or worse, to them ! Our parents may have had their own mental issues and stressors to deal with, perhaps far worse than our own.

2 - Not take those hurts personally - If it wasn't you, maybe it was your brother or sister. If you were an only child, it could have been any child in your place who would have received the same treatment, because your father might have been just the same person, with the same issues, regardless of who his child was.

3 - Gain understanding, compassion, empathy, and strength from the past - Understand, that perhaps, what happened, could not have been prevented (certainly not by you). It possibly happened because of unfortunate circumstances (like your parents being overly stressed or otherwise having their own issues). Try to develop a compassion for them, because, let's face it - their lives weren't perfect either, and they didn't know about the future consequences of their actions - BPD, (I'm willing to bet that most of our parents didn't) yet they had to raise you and your siblings to become successes in society. Let's not go too hard on them, yeah ? Once you have developed this compassion for them, try to forgive them (they're humans too), and let this knowledge and understanding impart strength to you - you have been through a great challenge, and come out of it better informed than the average person. I think this experience has made you a better person.

4 - Having processed the past, let go of it, because we will remain dead as long as we remember it - This is why we must make sure to confront and process the past first. Let it not be pending any longer. Resolve the past, and understand that we weren't dealt the perfect cards, but very few are, and that's ok. We've all come out better informed and better ready to tackle life's challenges than the average Joe. We can then begin to live our lives, and live better, in the present tense. You can use your gained knowledge and skills, compassion for example, in your daily lives. The past then becomes merely something we have gone through and learned from. Reliving it everyday is not going to help us - the clock keeps ticking. If you're 30 yrs old now, you'll be 30 yrs and 1 day old tomorrow, guaranteed.

This is how I see it, anyhow. Sorry if I pissed people off.

One more important point I wanted to mention:

Try to see both the good and the bad side of the person from your past: My father hit me countless times, sometimes to the point of me wetting my pants in front of family and the maid. But, he enjoyed taking me to watch games, and we also enjoyed watching games together on TV. He was also great in taking care of both my Mom and me if one of us were to fall sick. I still remember him bringing me water in the middle of the night, from about 20 years ago or more, and staying up the whole night at my bedside.

Anyway, the point is, once you see both the good and bad in someone,
1 - They begin to seem more human (and hence more "normal") and less monstrous.
2 - It becomes possible to realize that they didn't only have bad intentions in mind for us. They, perhaps, also wanted good things for us.
3 - How much we differ from them seems to lessen, because we have flaws too.

I can see why Marsha Linehan based her whole DBT program on this simple yet powerful concept - the dialectic.

[Achy Turtle Armor]

I completely agree with everything you wrote above. This is the approach I have learned to take from my therapist. Buddhist ideas is what a lot of this is and I see it as the only way out of my own personal insanity.

[avlady]

Cry me a river

[Crazy Hitch]

Not me personally but it INFURIATES me when I hear some people say it to their kids.

So unnecessary.

Are we not meant to feel? Are we not meant to express how we feel?

It's healthy.

I've lost count of the number of times I've cried infront of my own kids ....

It makes them realise I'm human!

[FlowerChild67]

Yes I was told that and countless times I was given something to cry about. my stepfather had me so scared that when he was watching us when my mother was at work I would hide in my room and not make a sound so I did not upset him. At 16 I was thrown threw a screen door that when I had enough and went to the court and asked to be emancipated and I lived with my grandparents for a few years. My mother had what was call manic depression then, which is now called bipolar, and she tried to protect me from him but could not most times. I asked her why she would not leave him and her response was I can't care for you and your sister. My sister on the other hand never received this treatment as she was his blood related child. Achy Turtle Armor I just want you to understand I am not upset with you for this post it was a post you wanted to find out what other went through, the person I am upset by some of lilodian4ever comments. Lilodian4ever some people will never forgive there abusers I have never had therapy for this and I will never completely forgive him I talk with him but I really don't care about him or love him as a parent. He may have realized his mistakes and wants forgiveness but I am not ready to forgive him and I don't think I will ever forgive him.

[guilloche]

Lilodian4Ever.

I appreciate where you're coming from, but if I can be honest... I do find your comments hurtful. It may be that you've done a ton of work, have processed your past, and are now in a good, forgiving place. Not everyone is there yet, and, to me, the things you wrote sound a lot like what I heard growing up - which is that my feelings and experiences don't matter, it doesn't matter how terribly people treat me, my job is to suck it up and get over it. And if I don't, clearly there's something wrong with me (rather than acknowledging that there's something wrong with the person being abusive!).

I don't mean to attack you, but wanted to let you know how that all came across, at least to me.

And, as for the original post - yes! I heard that too (about crying). I can't think of specific instances, but it resonates strongly with me. I also got told that "nobody loves you" when I cried (as in, I would be crying and say "nobody loves me!" - this would be at 4-5 years old) and my mom would reply with great sarcasm, "That's right, nobody loves you!". She'd also say, "Little Sarah Bernhardt, you're breaking my heart" and say things about "crocodile tears" as well.

I don't know that *this* stuff *is* what I'm angry about, though I think it's interesting to see how many people here experienced similar things. I think I tend to be more upset about the big picture, ALL the stuff taken together, of which this is only a small piece. I'm not sure how to say it... like, this was a small indicator of a much bigger pattern of interaction, and just looking at this one piece alone (like most of the pieces, in isolation) doesn't necessarily look catastrophic to me - but when you put them all together and see the big picture, it feels pretty darn devastating

Ok, fair enough. I was afraid that I would come across as hurtful, and apparently, I did.

That was not my intention, really. I think what I was trying to say was: "Yes, I understand and agree. The same happened to me. However, I would really like to see y'all take this next tough step on the path to recovery, for your own betterment.". That's all.

Sorry if it came across the wrong way.

Samantha, I'm very sorry for having hurt you with my words. My suggestions were, by no means, universally applicable .... they couldn't have been, given that we have all been through unique struggles.

Forget the specifics of what I said, I was just trying to make a general point, using specific examples, that we could all benefit from processing the past and moving on ... that's all.

You're right ... I wouldn't forgive your stepfather, either. You don't have to, to move on from the past.

Anyway, I'm sorry.

[FlowerChild67]

lilodian4ever thank you for the words of encuriougement. I get where you were comung from but when i read it it jusrtv hit me hard just like guilloche I was told to suck it up it's not that bad.

[junkDNA]

my dad said this like every day

[shezbut]

lilodian4ever,

I think that I can understand where you are coming from. I believe that you are saying that it would be helpful if we were to try to look at the whole picture, rather than continue to focus upon our dark experiences in life. Forgiving our abusers would be more helpful to us, as we live our lives.

It seems like what you're saying is that part of you is a bit frustrated with BPD, as we continue to complain about our pasts, as well. That you would like to see us recognize the good parts of our childhood.

I do understand that you have grown up a lot emotionally. You've come a long way, and that is wonderful! I am truly happy to hear that you have been able to do that ~ it gives me a glimmer of hope, that perhaps I will be ready to forgive someday. Some of us have been struggling for a very long time, others are relatively new to realization. Of course, there are many in the middle too. My point is: We are all on different paths in this group. I believe that we should try to support one another. In my experience, we really don't get that very often. No one listened, validated or supported us when we needed it in childhood. In my opinion, we need to change that pattern now.

I hope that you can understand what I'm trying to say. I don't hold a grudge against you. I am just doing the best that I can in life.

Hey shezbut, yes, that's kind of what I was intending.

Not so much that we should recognize the good parts of childhood, but that we should recognize the good parts of the people who we feel have wronged us. I'm not frustrated with BPD or with people having BPD.

I understand that everyone is in different stages of recovery and healing, and yes, I should have phrased what I wrote in a less imposing tone. Perhaps I was too imposing. Also, what you guys do with your lives is your business, not mine. So, I was in the wrong, and for that, I apologize.

However, my point still holds true, I think. You and perhaps everyone else on here knows, deep down, that wallowing/complaining/venting, though normal, will only help you temporarily. We can't keep complaining about the past forever, right ? At some point, we have to move on, no ?

What will really help long-term is to confront the traumas more directly and process them more deeply, so that we can get a more complete understanding of what happened. Let's face it - a father hitting a child is not simply a case of a father being evil and sadistic and not caring about the consequences. There is a LOT MORE going on in a situation like that. That's what I was trying to get at: look at ALL the factors and circumstances that may have surrounded the event in question. By doing so, you will be able to fully understand what happened, and hopefully be able to move on from it.

I can choose to simply say, "Yes, I understand your pain" and offer a shoulder to cry on, but I think that that would be a disservice to you, because I know I can do better. So, I suggested what I thought would be a better way to deal with these traumas.

Consider this analogy: Mama birdie and baby birdie are perched atop a branch. Baby birdie is learning how to fly, but is scared s***less. Mama can choose to coddle baby birdie forever, or she can shove him off the branch and have him learn how to fly.

[The_little_didgee]

I remember hearing this once when I was five years old from my mother. It deeply hurt and it still does today.

[guilloche]

Originally Posted by lilodian4ever

However, my point still holds true, I think. You and perhaps everyone else on here knows, deep down, that wallowing/complaining/venting, though normal, will only help you temporarily. We can't keep complaining about the past forever, right ? At some point, we have to move on, no ?

I'm sorry, I don't mean to beat you over the head, but I really have to respectfully disagree here. I don't believe everyone's path is the same, I don't believe that what people are trying to do here is "wallow/complain/vent".

When you say that, it sounds very minimizing to me. Using words like "wallow, complain, vent" sounds to me like people standing around the water cooler, complaining about losing a parking space or something trivial, and making too big a deal about something that is not significant.

I don't think that's what's happening here. I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I find it hurtful and a little like you may not yet have the life experience to appreciate the amount of damage parents can do, even with seemingly small words and actions (or lack thereof).

The "venting" here isn't useless. The way I see it, it does a couple things: it's a way to get validation (i.e. "Am I crazy, or was this really a bad thing?") and a way to get in touch with these things, so that we can feel the feelings and process them. That's a huge thing for me, because (I'm just starting to learn) I really wasn't allowed to have "feelings" growing up - and it's a struggle right now for me to get to the feelings, and bring them into therapy. Part of healing is acknowledging the bad stuff and then *feeling it* - hopefully with an empathic presence (T) - so that it *can* be processed. When I read what you wrote, I see it as a directive to just skip over the "feeling" because "it's not that important" and try to jump to the end state ("see the good", "move on"). I absolutely *can* do that, I've done it my whole life... and it has not served me well. My therapist wants me to NOT do that at this point.

What will really help long-term is to confront the traumas more directly and process them more deeply, so that we can get a more complete understanding of what happened.

It sounds like you don't believe that being told "If you don't stop crying, I'll give you something to cry about" is an actual trauma? Am I understanding correctly? Because, I'm pretty sure that for a small child that is already hurting to be threatened with physical violence because they're expressing their emotions (instead of getting any sort of nurturing and caring) IS in fact a "trauma".

I can choose to simply say, "Yes, I understand your pain" and offer a shoulder to cry on, but I think that that would be a disservice to you, because I know I can do better. So, I suggested what I thought would be a better way to deal with these traumas.

Might I respectfully suggest that this is not "doing better"? People here were discovering something about their history, relating, and sharing their pain. I don't think shutting that down is "better", and again, for some of us, it's actually the opposite of what our therapists want us to do.

Consider this analogy: Mama birdie and baby birdie are perched atop a branch. Baby birdie is learning how to fly, but is scared s***less. Mama can choose to coddle baby birdie forever, or she can shove him off the branch and have him learn how to fly.

I don't think it's the same thing at all. In your analogy, the baby bird is presumably healthy and able to fly, just naturally nervous about trying something new. Would the mama bird push a brand new baby (just born minutes ago) out of the nest, and let it fall to its death? Further, you're talking about "mama" bird who has a responsibility to teach the young birds to fly. At this point, for most of us, this would be our *therapists*. If my therapist, who knows my history and personality and current struggles, were to tell me to stop wallowing and move on, I'd take that seriously and give it some consideration. My therapist, however, is telling me exactly the opposite of what you're saying - he's saying, "Look, you had a really sucky family, you got screwed over, and over, and over, and it's not fair. And you can't move forward until you can start to experience your feelings around that." That's not wallowing, and it's not venting. It's moving forward and healing.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm beating you up. Just my opinions. I'm probably going to go ahead and withdraw from this thread now, because it's a bit more upsetting than I can deal with at this point.

To everyone else, I'm sorry. I hope I'm not triggering anyone, or speaking out of turn. I don't mean to represent anyone's opinions other than my own. Forgive me is this is just me being crazy. Thanks.

[quote=guilloche;4176567] You have completely misunderstood me. However, in the interest of my time and our harmony, I will say no more.

[Ad Intra]

Yes *Shivers*