[Alcinus_of_chell]

Women arn't allowed to post on the men focused support board, but while looking through the recent threads I found this post. Now this post was posted by a man, but both the people who 'thanked' it are female.

Now my question is, are women allowed to 'thank' posts in the men-focused support forum (and vise verse)?
It seems to me that there is no reason for a woman to thank a post on the men focused support boards (and a man on the women's boards) except to express an opinion and where for to circumvent the fact they can't post it, as it seems (to me at least) to be in this case.

[Yoda]

interesting point

[unaluna]

I agree. It's crossing boundaries, circumventing is a good way of putting it. They should start their own thread if they want to talk about it in mixed company or women only, but that section is set up for men only and should be respected. It's not so much about privacy, after all, it IS the internet, but about respecting each other's boundaries, and feeling respected. Otherwise we may be repeating abusive-type behavior by not listening and not taking the person's feelings seriously.

[Alcinus_of_chell]

Here's another example. Same thing, same subject, same opinion even.

[John25]

I agree with the OP, although the last example is 2.5 years old. I guess it doesn't appear that often, but that's not really the point.

[Yoda]

I belong to a large community that has an adults only forum. To access it you must be 18 years old and a member for X number months and then ask a moderator for the password to access that forum. Maybe Psychentral's men only and women only forums would benefit from similar.

[Alcinus_of_chell]

Originally Posted by John25

although the last example is 2.5 years old.

Turns out, Men focused support is a Very slow board,
That example is off page 4 of the threads listing, on the relationships and communication board page 4 of the thread listing features threads from 10 days to 2 weeks ago.
I didn't realize that the post was that old as a result.

I guess it doesn't appear that often, but that's not really the point.

Actually when you take into account the level of bird activity, and that 'thanks' are rare on that board it happens frighteningly often.
When you look at the week of that first example there are 10 thanks total, from 5 different members, 2 of whom were female.
That's one fifth the total number of thanks, and 40% of thanking members.

Still from my perspective at least it's the principle not the number of incidents.

[Inedible]

When I show up here I click on "new posts" and then pick through to see if anything interests me. I find that I often read a thread without noticing which board it is on.

[DocJohn]

Yes, women are allowed to thank in that forum, and men in the women's forum. The gender limits are on posts, not thanks.

Members are responsible for noting where they are posting, regardless of how they read posts.

Thanks,
DocJohn

I think there are clearly subjects which people would only feel comfortable talking about with others of their own gender. However, given that there are no "fences" here, it is a tad foolish of this site (and its members) to expect the respective genders to stay neatly within the arbitrary boundaries prescribed for them. Clearly, if you don't want the women members of Psych Central to know you have erectile dysfunction, you should avoid posting this information-or develop an alternate "handle" to air male-unique questions/concerns. In the post you referenced, my question, to men, about their porn obsessions, was an attempt to understand the male perspective and typically, there were few responses. Soon after the fact, I realized that not many of us are about to spill the beans on a public forum, even on a sub-forum devoted entirely to mens issues. So I ceased then to expect any great response, or an abundance of honesty. Those of us who post a lot elsewhere may also not want our image somehow corrupted by anything we might post on the men-only sub-forum. In many cases, the PM seems to be the only logical solution.

Aside from the problematic privacy issues on this site, I think the radical difference in number of posts, between mens and womens, is rather telling, and indicative of how differently we are wired-and particularly how difficult it is for men to articulate problems unique to our gender. Let's face it, women are not only more articulate but also , not surprisingly, benefit more from their ability to talk things through, particularly with other females. We can learn a great deal from them.

[Alcinus_of_chell]

Originally Posted by DocJohn

Yes, women are allowed to thank in that forum, and men in the women's forum. The gender limits are on posts, not thanks.

Um if I may ask, Why?
I honestly can't think of a reason why I might thank a post in the women forum except to express an opinion (which I feel violates the spirit of the rules and therefor would not do).

@Gulas-
I just want to state that the content of your post is not the issue here, it is entirely user peoples' actions that are being discussed.
There was no need to defend it.

Alcinus, while I appreciate your comment, there's no need to worry as I took no offense. I was merely re-introducing the subject matter to better illustrate my overall point(s) about the gender-specific forums rather limited usefulness.

[di meliora]

Hello, Alcinus_of_chell. While I think you have a valid point, please keep in mind the guideline that makes discussion of all administrative issues inappropriate. If you intend to press your point, you might want to PM DocJohn.

[unaluna]

IMO, I don't Alcinus is pressing an administrative point. Isn't there another man on this site who sees this issue from his point of view? Isn't it possible to see it his way without being considered angry or hostile or withholding towards women (or men, in all-women forum)? I think he is just asking, WHY, if you set up an all-male forum, why must we allow the women to peek, so to speak? Why must they have their say? I'm just thinking out loud here. Why isn't it recognized that women may also be perpetrators, so that in the one safe place you THINK you have, here comes this XX chromosome sticking her nose in, when the WHOLE rest of the playground is hers, she has to peek into YOUR corner. How is that even close to fair? I've gotten messages from moderators telling me to take care of my own self-care, but when it feels like it's in your face like this, when you THOUGHT you were in a safe place, when there is PLENTY of room for other people to have THEIR stuff, and you only have THIS ONE LITTLE SPOT???

So I think that is what Alcinus is saying is the SPIRIT of the law, not the LETTER of the law. And doesn't anyone else beside ME get that? Or can you enlighten me or us as to why - well, not why we SHOULDN'T feel this way, CAN'T SAY THAT, WOULDN'T BE PRUDENT - but then, what do you see as our alternatives? You set up a safe spot, then you plant land mines, and we're supposed to be okay with that? That's how it feels to me.

[lynn P.]

I can understand the issue, but it would be difficult to enforce it, if this became a rule. They would have to go and remove the female thanks on posts. Ideally it would be nice if the female and male forums could be hidden from either side, but this would create another can of worms - meaning when we join, we would have to say our gender in order for this separateness to happen. The women are in the same position. If someone has a name which is ambiguous they could post in one of these forums and no one would know. This goes back to the other thread...whether it would be nice to know if someone's gender is. Usually if you accidentally see a obvious female posting there, I think its by accident...they forget they're in the men's forum. One time I saw a thread there, for several days and the poor guy was in distress with a male problem, with 0 replies.....I knew the answer and wanted to help him badly. I PM'd him - told him I had some info and asked if he wanted me to send it to him.

[unaluna]

That's a good point, you could PM, but by posting in that forum, he is declaring his intent for male-only contact. He can take the initiative to repost in another forum, but it's like we women just can't switch off that care-taking gene? to put it nicely! as I am by engaging in this at all. care-taking, that is, so i'll stifle now! thanks!

[pegasus]

Wow! What is so wrong about one human being saying thanks to another human being?

The male and female support boards are open for all to read including the public. Now imagine a woman reads the post in the male forum and she is reading it because she is looking for support for a male friend/husband/brother. She finds the information in the male forum post very informative and is so grateful she thanks the poster by clicking a button that generates the 'thanks for this' reply. And you are upset by this??

Originally Posted by pegasus

Wow! What is so wrong about one human being saying thanks to another human being?

The male and female support boards are open for all to read including the public. Now imagine a woman reads the post in the male forum and she is reading it because she is looking for support for a male friend/husband/brother. She finds the information in the male forum post very informative and is so grateful she thanks the poster by clicking a button that generates the 'thanks for this' reply. And you are upset by this??

I agree,My thoughts exactly.

Agree with you entirely Pegasus. However, as I mentioned, PsychCentral has unintentionally created the illusion that the mens forum will be read exclusively by men and the women's only forum will be read exclusively by women, though I think that most forum users must be aware by now that some women are looking in on the (mens only) posts and vice versa.

It surely makes it difficult for men to be as frank and open as they would like to be. Or at least, that's what the skimpy posting there suggests. Even though we are all essentially anonymous here, our presence on one sub-forum surely bleeds into another. Given this scenario, I doubt very much if many men are going to willingly discuss their impotence, addiction to porn, abusiveness to women, to use a few examples, knowing, especially now, that women are looking in on them.

As there is probably no sure way to create a failsafe sub-forum, segregating participants based on gender, it might make sense for the administrators to at the very least, better publicize the fact that both forums are being read by all, a disclaimer of sorts that will save people from potential embarrassment.

[lynn P.]

One suggestion is a member could make a social group for men on an invite only basis. This is no guarantee since I'm sure there's cases where a person could be hiding their gender. Unfortunately not all are honest about themselves when they're online.

[unaluna]

You are looking at it from YOUR point of view. I understand that. But try putting yourself in the other person's shoes. He is asking you to restrain yourself, to respect his boundary. Why does that feel like he is taking something from you? IS that what it feels like, or what? Now it's the woman who won't take "no" for an answer. It just feels to me like the women are trying to impose their will on the men, and you're saying, what's the big deal, it's just a little kiss! Why doesn't "no mean no" for men, too? It's like we can't even make the argument for it without sounding like weak victims.

I GET IT! I have seen the men's forum and wanted to answer, because on my phone, I rarely notice what forum a thread is posted in, I either look at new posts or subscribed threads. And I think, well I know the answer to THAT, too bad they don't want to hear from me! But not everyone has been damaged in such a way as I have, that gender and boundaries are virtually meaningless. So I would be the first person to IGNORE these rules, which is why I'm looking for explanation, not defense? Because I don't know how to say no, or that I have a right to say no, in the first place. So when you say it's okay to intrude on my private space, it's scary to me. That's kinda what this is about to me. If you wanna listen at the door of the boys' locker room, fine; but do you yell THANK YOU! at the end?

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by hankster

So when you say it's okay to intrude on my private space, it's scary to me. That's kinda what this is about to me.

Since this is a public forum, very little here is truly private except for the Private Messaging. Anyone, member or not, can read in most of our forums without logging in. Search engines visit most of our forums (which is why we ask you to choose a username that won't be recognizable -- say, from other sites where you may have been a member). In general, when there's something I want to discuss that I don't want the whole world to know about, I find a way to discuss it privately, one on one.

To me, having locker-room conversations about how to deal with the opposite sex has always felt a bit like treating them as the enemy. I find I'm more comfortable talking to or with women than about them. I notice, too, that just talking about someone and not wanting them know what I'm saying, has a way of getting me thinking that they (or someone like them) might be listening, they wouldn't like what they'd hear, and anything they'd say back, even [Thanks] or [Hugs], would be less than friendly.

If someone were to advise me, "Tell her this...", that would work a lot better for me if it led me to notice that that actually was what I wanted to tell her. If it wasn't, and I was only saying it because one of my buddies had told me to or because I thought that was what I was supposed to say, I'd expect it to only tangle up the conversation (and the relationship) and make me doubt myself more.


---------------------------
We have met the enemy and they are us.

[unaluna]

And that's why men will say, fine, I give up, you're right. But inside they're saying, I will never open up about my FEEEEELINGS again! Do we have any beverages brewed from hops?

I'm sorry I couldn't help you see this point of view. I think Alcinus had a valid point, regardless of how "enforceable" it is. Therapy is also a "phony" situation, like a movie, but we suspend belief in these situations. Unless you believe Superman can really fly!

[sabby]

Unfortunately, I don't believe there will ever be a perfect answer for all regarding this issue. DocJohn has stated how the forums are set up by saying the following:

Yes, women are allowed to thank in that forum, and men in the women's forum. The gender limits are on posts, not thanks.

Members are responsible for noting where they are posting, regardless of how they read posts.

Thanks,
DocJohn

We do not put limits on what genders can "read" and "thank" in the forums. Please keep in mind that it's possible some members may not state their real gender in order to help keep their identity safe on the internet.

Please also remember that as members, we are responsible for our own experience here. If something bothers us or triggers us, we need to find the best way to minimize the trigger.

At this time, I'm going to close this thread. Thank you for your input.

With Care,
sabby