i thought depression was time limited

Technically yes, it is time-limited. But as many have already said, everyone experiences it differently. I wish I was a person who could just shrug it off and go about my day, but once I feel down, it ruins my whole day and there is no recovering. I am 24 years old but I have suffered from severe depression my entire life. Looking at how my life has been going, it looks like I will suffer with it until I die. And it isn't that I don't try to be happy, because I do. And I don't choose to be depressed or want this in any way. Sigh...my life looks pretty hopeless. But I have a girlfriend and a good paying job and a big house and all this stuff...yet I still get depressed.

I can only base things on 37 years of bouts of depression and 20 years of treatment. And I mean 20 years of treatment that have nothing to do with meds. I have read more books on Buddhism than I can count and I have consistently practiced meditation for twenty years. The fist step in Buddhism is letting go of desire, expectations, and seeing things as they really are without judgement. Then there is the eight fold path for change, right thinking, right action, mindfulness and so on. I can honestly say I have tried very hard to put these tenants into practice. Along with this what I have learned from AA's twelve steps, what I have learned in therapy, CBT, prayer, etc, etc. I have done more searching and fearless moral inventories and tell alls than I would like to remember. I am not trying to brag, this is my truth. Yet I still suffer from depression on a consistent basis. This doesn't mean I have lost hope or given up or don't try. It means I have had to look honestly at my situation based on past history and figure out how to deal with it. I can't predict the future. I have just started therapy once again. Why would I do that if I had given up all hope. I am more realistic about it though based on all the therapy I have had in the past including group therapy. It may be that it just helps me deal with the consequences of depression for me and does not put it in remission. I suppose I could blame doctors and meds but that doesn't make sense to me since I suffered from it long before I ever saw a doctor or took a med. Seeing doctors has never stopped me from self help. Why do I still have depression? The chemical imbalance theory proposed by the drug companies may turn out to be a small part of it or may be totally false but that does not mean genes, mono amines, receptors, pathways of communication between parts of the brain are not implicated. Research long ago went in different directions from the chemical imbalance theory proposed by big pharma. That is how TMS came out. I will ask again. After all the non medical treatment I have applied to my depression over twenty years why do I still get depressed? I would really like to know.

As to fault. We have had this conversation. Believing it was my fault and that I was just a lazy no good bum who couldn't get out of bed just made things a ton worse. I was deeply ashamed of myself when in a depression and I didn't even know to call it that. I only knew I couldn't get out of bed and function so there had to be something seriously wrong with my character. I was just lazy and had no ambition compared to my peers. By eliminating fault and blame it allowed me to accept responsibility (big difference) for my life. The shame had me stuck. Eliminating shame allowed me to take action. It doesn't matter how the donkey got in the ditch just how are we gonna get him out. It also allowed me to be honest with others in getting help. Also causes are important if they can be identified. If my father sexually abused me then that might have something to do with it and may be something important in therapy.

People are very sensitive to how others perceive their depression because of the shame they already carry about it. They don't want to feel judged by others as it only adds to the shame. Most people tend to think there is some simple answer to why I am depressed. They ask why am I depressed and expect I will say something like my dog died or that my boss yelled at me last week. 99% of the people I have encountered are concerned and do want to help but they don't understand and don't know how to help. I would never give a snarky answer but I may want to avoid the topic altogether with them because I don't want to get into a big discussion about what it is really like. I have had many such discussions and even arguments. If I say "I dunno it just hit me out of the blue for no apparent reason" they don't see how this could be true. There has to be some concrete explanation that can be fixed. Or they may say "well if you just choose to be happy it will go away". Or they may say "Well everyone gets depressed sometimes." "Just get out in the sun and go for a walk". I have heard all these things and many more. I am not afraid to have those discussions with people because I have let go of a lot of the shame that I carried but it gets old. I want to increase understanding of what it is really like for me and people like me but it gets tiring and it is hard not to feel judged when they have some simple solution to "fix" you.

Well, and if some reply to your threads with "contact your treatment team", isn't it sorta the same?

I feel differently. I sometimes just wanna be acknowledge i have reasons. Often I got "your ILLNESS IS LYING TO YOU" and being told that if I don't take the medical model route that I don't wanna get better (interesting... so choices are acknowledge after all...........).

I have never said choices don't matter. Positive life choices and practices have helped my life immensely. I have just pointed out that they don't seem to have lessened my depression. I have no idea why and it is very frustrating. It seems to be very ingrained in me somehow.

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One of the leading myths that unfortunately still circulates about clinical depression is that it’s caused by low serotonin levels in the brain (or a “biochemical imbalance”). This is a myth because countless scientific studies have specifically examined this theory and have come back universally rejecting it.
So let’s put it to rest once and for all — low levels of serotonin in the brain don’t cause depression.
Let’s find out why.


This isn’t the first time we’ve had to debunk this myth. We last did so in 2007 — 7 years ago — pointing out that most people’s (even doctor’s!) belief that low serotonin causes depression is a result of pharmaceutical companies’ successful marketing. It’s a message they repeatedly hammered home1, making it one of the most successful marketing messages-turned-into-fact ever done on Madison Avenue.
However, you may be reading this article to get to the punch line: So if low serotonin levels don’t cause depression, what does? Here’s the short answer — researchers still don’t understand what causes depression. We have a lot of theories still in the mix and still being researched, but none of them have resulted in one, conclusive answer.
One of those theories that’s been tested — and tested time and time again — is the idea that our brains can sometimes run low on a neurotransmitter called serotonin. It is thought by prescribing a selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressant medication like Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil “fixes” this imbalance, bringing serotonin levels back to “normal.”
First, let’s tackle the whole “chemical imbalance” theory that underlines the serotonin theory of depression. In order for us to suggest an imbalance in anything, we’d have to understand what a perfectly balanced brain looks like. To date, no study or researcher has been able to show such a brain. It’s likely because it doesn’t exist.
The brain is the least-understood organ in the body today. What we do know about it is that it is constantly changing and in flux. Virtually any stimuli can alter its energy consumption temporarily. We don’t understand why the brain is structured the way it is, or even how it actually communicates internally (although, again, we have a lot of theories).
It’s hard to imagine, but physicians only began to understand what the heart’s purpose in the body was about 400 years ago. It’s no wonder we might need a few more decades (or longer) to understand how the body’s most complex organ operates.
Serotonin’s Role in Depression

Back in 2005, Lacasse and Leo pointed out in the journal PLOS Medicine that there was a huge disconnect between what we knew about serotonin’s role in depression from the medical research, and what pharmaceutical advertisements were claiming we knew:

Regarding SSRIs, there is a growing body of medical literature casting doubt on the serotonin hypothesis, and this body is not reflected in the consumer advertisements. In particular, many SSRI advertisements continue to claim that the mechanism of action of SSRIs is that of correcting a chemical imbalance, such as a paroxetine advertisement, which states, “With continued treatment, Paxil can help restore the balance of serotonin…” [22].
Yet [...] there is no such thing as a scientifically established correct “balance” of serotonin. The take-home message for consumers viewing SSRI advertisements is probably that SSRIs work by normalizing neurotransmitters that have gone awry. This was a hopeful notion 30 years ago, but is not an accurate reflection of present-day scientific evidence.

New research that we reported on last month confirms the role of serotonin in depression is not well-understood. In that mice study, removing the stuff in the brain that creates serotonin2 did not create a bunch of depressed mice.
Other research confirms it’s not as simple as a serotonin deficit. As Whitaker (2010) noted, the 1976 Asbert study is still relevant. Asbert looked at levels of a metabolized result of serotonin (something called 5-HIAA) in spinal fluid. If low-levels of serotonin cause depression, then all people suffering from depression should have significantly lower levels of 5-HIAA in their spinal fluid than people without depression.
What Asbert found, however, wasn’t a clean result. In fact, it clearly shows how complicated depression as a disease process is. In both groups of people studied — both a depression group and a control group — about 50 percent had “regular” levels of 5-HIAA, about 25 percent had really low levels, and another 25 percent had really high levels.
If serotonin were really an important part of the picture in depression, we’d expect that group to look significantly different than the control group. In this study, at least, the two groups looked largely the same.
As we said back in 2007, serotonin may play some small, not-yet-well-understood role in depression. But if it does, it looks nothing like the simplistic “low levels of serotonin cause depression” hypothesis that was all the rage ten to twenty years ago.
If a doctor suggests this is the cause of your depression, and all you need is an antidepressant like Prozac, point them to this article. And please take a moment to share this on Facebook and twitter. It’s an widespread myth that dumbs down depression that we need to put to rest once and for all.

people deal with depression differently some take meds others dont and some have it short term or have had severe depression but have managed to overcome it. It does not last continously for life time for everyone. No one can say that its permanent illness for everyone and that no efforts they make by themselves can help them. I dont believe its related to chemical imbalance or genetics personally. these are perspectives which i dont relate to and dont find helpful to me. i do think its related to stress, trauma and hidden internalised surpressed bottled up emotions/feelings and self limiting unhelpful destructive beliefs and habits/patterns.

There is a cause and reason/explanation for everything we think, feel and do.

It is unhealthy to keep difficult feelings emotions like anger, guilt, fear, contained. People need to feel able to express themselves honestly, openly and freely but people dont always feel able to do that, can feel restricted, trapped, prevented from doing so or in conflict with self, which can lead to stress and illness. Anger is seen as wrong, bad so people try to avoid acting out anger or they keep things to themselves instead which isnt good. Behind anger is hurt and fear. Anger is usually a response to something we feel is wrong, unfair, threatening us.. Ive heard a lot that depression is anger turned inwards.

But there must have been some sort of past difficulty/stress, negativity from early on in your life that may have led to you falling into depression? did you have it when you born? as a child were you sad all the time. You may have been sensitive, quiet, selfless like i was, which could have made you vulnerable to unwanted negative influences/ behaviours of others towards you, to bullying.

That's pretty much what I have been doing since the meds, talk therapy and no other treatments I've attempted have controlled it in my case...so there are people just riding it through due to no other real choice.

I mean sure the worst of it eventually will lift some for a while and it will seem more mild for a while, but it always comes back just as severe...I never have any time when I am totally free of the depression but severity fluctuates.

Not everyone has depression permanently, from young age continuously or again and again for their whole life. Yes it is possible to overcome it, to free self of it.

PET scan of the brain for depression - Mayo Clinic



Depression Slideshow: Emotional Symptoms, Physical Symptoms, Depression Types, and More



A picture is worth a thousand words.

Awwwwww, pwetty bwains! So kewl! Almost like pwenology!

Does the picture though say thousand words about correlation and causation? About if we are depressed about our brain is different or because our brain is different because we are depressed.

Also.............. as somebody who has been politically active since like forever, I know how the thousand words worth pictures can be used to prove any point, manipulated or used to fit agenda.

It is just a picture of brain activity when someone is in a severe depression. It doesn't say anything about causation. A recent break through in tools to study things but still rather primitive. To me it is a picture that shows what we deal with. I can actually literally feel the lack of brain activity when I am severely depressed.

Unfortunately they cannot take a microscope and look to see what is going on bio chemically at receptors or neural pathways. Or what happens when an anti depressant crosses the blood brain barrier to act in some way that is not known.

I am not a scientist or psychically able to look inside my own brain or others to see exactly what goes on and compare it with others and I can't prove or no one can that depression is because of only due to chemical imbalance or genetics. The brain Is a physical organ part of our body, it is different from our mind, which has stored memories, images and is directed by thoughts and feelings and conscious or sub conscious responses to things. we do have choice and control over our mental and physical wellbeing. Our state of mind affects our physical body too.

yeah, sure I deal with dumb days too (moderate doses of guarana seem to counter that, often to a great degree).

But what does the picture really say? I mean, everything we think and do... goes through our brain. They even shown that brains of conservatives are different than brains of liberals......... Brains of people who meditate regularly look different...... but does it really matter in the end? I don't need fancy schmancy science brains scan to tell me I tend to be bit slow when depressed. It doesn't bring solutions. So far I only seen these pretty brain pictures used to push agenda.

Or does it serve as the "not my fault" proof? But would it really be so? Wouldn't thinking differently and training yourself in mindfullness throw this argument out of window too?

I just think these might be bit waste of time and resources. People suffer and all we get is some pretty colorful pictures of brains?

It is just one tool in a host of new tools to study things. People can interpret however they want.

To me it is much more than "dumb days"

I have trained myself in thinking differently, meditation, and mindfulness. Yet I still get severe depressions. I am not trying to discourage anyone from those practices, it is just my reality.

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I don't know you personally nor your life circumstances and how long uve had depression for or what led to it in first place and what underlying issues may be. You have a right to believe what you want. If you believe your depression is unresolvable and life long , reoccurent cos its down to brain chemistry or genetics that's your choice. I have good awareness,knowledge and understandings of what I've been through, my experiences, what's behind, factors that have led to me getting depressive anxious episodes and what is of importance, value, can help me personally in my life. I do think that depression is related is related to unhelpful self limiting destructive thoughts and habits, and largely to do with bottled up supressed trapped emotions, feelings in response to things we have found stressful, unpleasant, challenging that we've not dealt well with.

pristiq, lamictal, welbutrin, abilify, Xanax and psych therapy for years and still depressed, anxious and hopeless. Depression isn't temporary for all of us.

Your depression and my depression may have very different core causes. There is no right or wrong answer.

I base my opinion on MY depression based on 37 years of suffering from it and 20 years of very hard work treating it with means other than medication. Also a big part of it is based on knowledge of my family history. Mental Illness and alcoholism runs rampant of both sides of my family. It is not that I feel I am doomed to a life of suffering or that nothing can be done but I am forced to look at my situation realistically based on a life time of experience with it. They cannot pin point one gene or a collection of genes that may be involved for some people but the studies on heredity, twins and adoption back it up.

I am not passing judgment on what your core causes may be or how you choose to approach solutions. I am only sharing my experience with it.

I look to studies and current research in the hopes that better understanding will offer better solutions. It is not just studies on possible causes but studies on possible solutions that I pay attention to. I have read books on neuroplasticity by Jeffery Schwarz and paid attention to UCLA's center on mindfulness. Many books on Buddhism and many things that I have put into practice. I am a big fan of CBT and it has proven results. I took St Johns Wart for a long time and did not find it helpful. I take fish oil, vitamin D, and Melotonin. I have listed many times in these forums all the things medical and non medical that I have thrown at it over the last twenty years. Maybe I am doing something terribly wrong but the results are what they are.

Dr. Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D. - Books

UCLA Mindful Awareness Research Center | UCLA Mindful Awareness Research Center

So you don't think depression can be related to supressed bottled up emotions, feelings like internalised anger or anger turned inwards as I've heard people say?

Let's just say we all have different views and experiences of depression. Some people may claim to have had depression for long time and that it will last for the rest of their life, that they can't overcome it, while others have been able to manage it well and have more control over themselves, their lives and make changes they need which have helped them greatly. Depression does vary a lot, in degree of duration, occurence and sevrity..

SSRIs never did anything for me. My brain responds much better to SNRIs. It needs the adrenergic effects. Personally, I think SSRIs are overprescribed for depression when there are better types of drugs out there.

The dopaminergic effects from Adderall actually help too.

Oh yes I very much do think it can be related to those things. It is for many people. I have often heard that anger turned inward is depression. it is somewhat simplistic but makes sense to me. I think of anger turned inward as shame. Shame and fear are the two biggest culprits in my view.

I think PTSD, sexual abuse, physical abuse, abandonment, neglect, fear of intimacy, fear of commitment, unhealthy coping and processing of emotions, drug and alcohol abuse to cope, low self esteem, for whatever reason, unhealthy parenting, and so on can and do cause depression and a host of internal conflicts that effect our lives.

Oh yeah and stress for sure and loss.

So which is it? Your first sentence is conciliatory, accepting of all views and the existence of different experiences. But then, as per usual, you follow it right up with a sentence in which you slander the integrity of those who have a different experience than you, when you say "some may claim to". Why pretend to be accepting of others' views when you aren't? And why do you need to judge others as wrong, in order to believe you are right? If you're telling yourself that this is all in order to educate others with your viewpoint, I think you might want to take a closer look at your reasons, because you seem to be getting a different kick entirely out of this discussion.

Just a suggestion.