i thought depression was time limited

I'm sorry that my experience with it doesn't coincide with your own in a way that affirms your thinking about it. For me, it is much more visceral. I am a person who has come up from less than nothing, has created my own destiny, has built my own ways of thinking as completely separate from my parents, my culture, my environment. I know the difference between errant controllable thoughts, and the variety of mental affliction that manifests itself as depression in my own mind. I wish it was indeed as simple, for me, as your own experience or vision of it is for you.

I've said this before but certainly won't repeat myself in this thread: there are different kinds of depression, different comorbidities, different individual experiences, and none can be fully accounted for by any one individual person. Although I share my experience for the benefit of those who may struggle with difficulties similar to my own as I am surely not absolutely alone in my particular plight, I always make a point of making sure that my own comments underline the fact that I am only reporting on my own experience, and not speaking for anyone else. It's a matter both of respect for the experiences of others, and of the reality that I can't possibly know exactly how things are for anyone other than myself.

Depression is a mental illness period. That's what it's considered. Physical effects are symptoms of depression. Headaches, back pain -- those can be symptoms of depression. It's considered a mental illness because of how debilitating it can be. Sure, you can name stress as a mechanism that causes it, it definitely can, it can cause a lot of things, but I want you to consider for a moment normal people's reactions to stress vs. the reactions of those with a mood disorder to stress. The latter do not recover so easily. That's what makes it a mental illness.

The steps you take to overcome the depression further reinforce that point, be it through medication, workshops (which seem to be based in cognitive behavioral therapy, which is what my therapist gives me), therapy, all of the above. Because you're suffering, and you're looking for alleviation for that suffering. That you even have to go out of your way to find coping strategies to deal with normal stressors, and change your thoughforms, makes it a mental illness.

No one here is saying they want to keep suffering. On the contrary, I think everyone here for the most part is looking for ways to cope and not be alone in their struggles, to look for identification with others and share their experiences so that they don't feel so alone, and in kind to offer help to others to assure them that there is a way out of the woods and to the other side, and that they'll be okay. It's a really scary thing when you get to a point where you start having ideation. That's a mental illness. It goes against the basic human drive to survive.

Positive thinking is a great thing. When I'm mildly or moderately depressed, I can do it. But once I cross that line -- and I don't have a choice in the matter, it just hits me like a freight train -- it's extremely hard to think positively when your entire world is black. It's comforting when others give you guidance and do it for you. You need your hand held a little bit. You feel desperately alone. You feel like you're being ripped apart from the inside. It's ****ing awful. It's sick.

My tactics for dealing with that are: 1. Go to pdoc, get new med or adjust current meds, depending on circumstance. 2. Go to work everyday, because I'm safer there than at home with my thoughts and I feel slightly better being productive (it's all still there, mind you, just buzzing in the background). 3. Watch as many episodes of Family Guy as I can.

Taking steps to prevent it from happening is great, and I can see that's what you're doing. I've done that too, in different ways. And it has gotten better. I do cope with things better now. But it does come back for me, and it's effing frustrating. People without mood disorders don't need to take steps to prevent it from happening, and that is the point. That's why it's an illness. It's not solely because of "wrong thinking." It's based in brain chemistry itself. At least, for a lot of us.

I can honestly say I have worked very hard on changing my thinking patterns, the way I perceive things, the way I behave, how I react to others, how I process my emotions, and so on for twenty years. The techniques I have used for twenty years are CBT, prayer, meditation, mindfulness, self help, journaling, therapy of different kinds, AA's 12 steps, a good support network, and yes medication. I can say these things have helped me immensely in my life and even allowed me to overcome very bad alcoholism and addiction.

I am sad to say they have not really put a dent in my depression. In fact it has gotten worse in recent years. Those techniques allow me to cope with it better but it still comes full force with all the symptoms in regular cycles. The only time this isn't true is if a med is working good. Sometimes if I am in moderate to mild those techniques will bring me out of it. With severe I have to ride the cycle out. Nothing seems to work when in severe unless a med works. 37 years of cycles and I know it well. That is how it is for me. It is very biological, organic, genetic, and physical for me. My brain shuts down without any intervening external triggers or stresses. It just happens for no apparent reason. Obviously something causes those genes to turn on or off or not function right in the proteins and peptides they produce but I have not idea what. It seems to be much more related to seasonal circadian rhythms. Not SAD but similar. It is a year round cycle. The first hot week in spring usually always triggers one for example.

Well I think a couple people answered that above, about the SNRIs, so I don't want to be redundant. They were pretty thorough. A lot of people swear by Cymbalta. I'm on Pristiq (max dosage), but it recently failed me, so I'm not going to recommend it.

What I do find kinda strange is the Ambien. Have you tried any other sleep med? Ambien comes with a lot of wiggy side effects.

And what about mood stabilizers?

Also: Do you drink or use drugs? I was tons worse when I was abusing alcohol/drugs.

Depression is different for different people. Some people get it mild, just for short time, others get if more severely for longer. And people have different views /perspectives, some more positive others more negative. No one can say the way they think /what they believe about depression is more right or wrong than others its just different. People who haven't experienced depression don't understand what its like to have it but they may be quite judgemental and think they know what's best. People have different ways of dealing with things, that's a fact.

Therapies and positive psychology courses /workshops focus on changing peoples way of thinking and behaving in situations that can lead to stress and depression anxiety. It is believed by a lot of people that depression is related to negative thinking and is largely stress related.

The whole point in positive thinking and behaving is to help people have more control over their lives and be less vulnerable to stress and live more freely and fully, engaging well with others. If you let people, things, situations control/get the better of you, then you make yourself like emprisoned, powerless in difficulties.

Why are some people with depression able to overcome it, reach stage of liberation and transformation while others stay stuck vulnerable suffering in despair with depression coming back again and again? Because people react/deal with things differently and people have to get to root causes, factors that trigger stress and depressive episodes to arise and how they can address and challenge or better handle those underlying issues to reduce chances of falling ill again and improve lifestyle. What rly is lacking for a lot of people is sense of their real self and meaning/purpose in their life.

Stress is the leading cause of health problems in our society. There's no doubt about that. Its really important how we deal with stress, how to reduce likelihood of getting stress in first place and that's partly related to our thoughts and how we react to others and situations we find challenging.. We have choice in how we go about our daily lives. What direction we want to take. We can change something in our selves or life is its causing unhappiness, disharmony, is unhelpful. There are things we can do and change and things we can't. Don't have to fear change or resist it. Focus on positive aspects of ourselves and others, possibilities, challenge self, try new things, and create the life we want to live.

Yes...lots of responses!
I don't drink or use drugs. I have enough trouble being "normal"...what ever that is.
Mood stabilizers don't seem to do anything at all. Oh yeah...Ambien is crazy, but it beats the hell out of protracted insomnia. I have woken up in strange circumstances, but that's the only part of this mess that's the slightest bit entertaining. Ambien, alone doesn't always work, hence the Klonopin.
I also take Dexadrine along with the Zoloft. It was a strange combo, but it kept me moving and helped mood, for a while.
Thanks to those of you who were very helpful. I think a med adjustment is in order.

For myself, I do not choose to be depressed, nor do I think depression is the same for everyone. If positive thinking was a cure, why is anyone depressed? OH Wait, I know...they choose to be! Seriously?
If something like that works for you, Creative1onder, that's great, but please don't cram it down my throat. I'm not going to "justify" the depression. It is a fact, for me and has been for most of my life.

Medications alone do not help everyone overcome, recover from depression because they do not tackle the underlying root issues . They are merely prescribed to treat the symptoms . Its up to individual whther they take medication or not or what type whther pharmaceutical or alternative, natural. It doesn't make sense to me why people take medication for a mental psychological stress related problem. Having a mental illness doesn't mean its gonna be around for life either. I don't rly like the term mental illness. Medications are meant to be for people to manage symtpoms of physical health issues. People may think that depression is just related to chemical imbalance or genetic but that is just a belief not a fact, it is something they've learnt /been taught and followed it. Others have learnt/been taught that depression is related to negative thoughts and unhelpful patterns of behaviour that need addressing/changing. Positive thinking is said to lead to positive feelings and actions while negative pessimistic thinking is more likely to lead to stress and suffering. People have a lot of different views/ideas and experiences of depression. My depressive episodes have def been related to stressful traumatic experiences, disappointments, loss, things I've not dealt with well that I've been through and passivity and self limiting and destructive habits that need tackling. There is a lot of pain, hurt and anger attached to it. I can't depend on others too much. I've had numerous negative experiences with people including professionals. So I've had to find own ways of carrying on and helping self but I still know there's a lot affecting me that I need to do something about and change. I can only do that with positive optimistic thinking, visualisation and practical constructive efforts. I won't get better by believing there's no hope, that things won't improve for me and that I'm powerless. I have to believe in self in own abilities and strengths and do my best to create life I want and need.

Time limited????

FYI---Most T's are only in it for the money!!

I have battled depression over 32 years....so I guess it is time limited, at least for me...a life time.

I would like someone to tell me the core causes of my depression. I have had no big trauma, abuse of any kind, bullying, and stress does not bring it on. Faulty thinking doesn't cause it for me. The depression comes and then it causes stress and faulty thinking and has a big impact on my life.

I would also like to know what I have done wrong in the past twenty years when I have worked so hard on all possible environmental factors and changes in thinking. See post above. Why do I still get depression??? Twenty years is a long time of working on changing self. Where have I went wrong and what is causing it???

http://depressiongenetics.stanford.edu/mddandgenes.html

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You've done nothing wrong. I believe the depression comes first, then causes the negativity and faulty thinking.
I guess some people(NOT YOU) will believe what ever they wish; sometimes hurting others in the process.

CREATIVE1onder we'll have to agree to disagree because your beliefs are starting to hurt.

I'm not hurting anyone. We just have different views and experiences of depression.I'm not the only person to consider that depression is linked with stress, a major factor and negative thoughts and habits. I learnt that from therapists, workshops, reading and talking to others. For me anyway I can't doubt that my depression has been brought on by stressful traumatic experiences I've been through and unhelpful self destructive behaviours. Depression is def not the same for everyone and varies in degree of duration, occurence and severity. If you went to positive psychology courses/workshops or saw therapists who said the same things I have expressed about positivity then I'm sure you wouldn't attack them for their perspective. You may not like it, what they say but its up to you whether you wish to be open minded and consider things or not. If you feel that your depression is related to genetics or just chemical imbalance that's your view, that nothing you can do can change things for the better, that's yor view, not mine.

I can't tell others, know what their circumstances are really what has brought on their depressive episodes, the factors/underlying causes as I am not them, and am not responsible for or don't live their life. I can only know and understand my own insights and experiences and others can't say what its like for me, cos they don't know what I've been through and they dont live my life either. If some people who've had severe depression have been able to reach stage of wholeness, harmony with self, liberate themselves and transform, I'm sure I can too. I think it involves spiritual help and finding greater self awareness and purpose, value In life.

Some of your statements seem to say you believe all depression is stress related. Stress can be a major factor for many people but not all. The causes of depression are very complex and there are many. Studies on stress find that some people can handle stress very well and others cannot and it can lead to depression. This may be a natural pre disposition or that they did not learn good coping skills or because of previous trauma. In my case when I am not depressed I can handle stress very well, in fact I thrive on it. I often get depressed in times of 0 stress. Depression itself causes stress because of how it affects my life but stress does not cause it in my case.

There is lots of evidence that genetics play a role for many people. It is not just belief. There is also lots of evidence that CBT, new ways of thinking and meditation and the like can change brain chemistry. For many of us through our own experience these methods are not powerful enough to overcome or eliminate depression. They are usually meant to help someone out of a depression when they are already in it but often it does not work. They may have prevented me from going in to them sometimes I can't say for sure. I know I still have them.

Overview of the Genetics of Major Depressive Disorder

Thanks Zinco. I was beginning to believe depression was something I caused by negative thinking and if I simply changed my attitude (which is quickly going down the crapper) I too could have peace of mind. I think I'm done with this subject. I'm losing patience, which must be my problem, also.
I appreciate all the helpful discussion.

The idea that depression is based on genetics or brain chemistry is one kind of perspective on it. Its hard to believe something true if you can't know and prove it yourself. Its not my personal view of depression because in my experience it is stress related and has underlying issues that need attention. And for a lot of people it is related with stressful traumatic experiences not nec from young age but may occur later on when older. Its related to bottled up internalised feelings and negative unhelpful beliefs and responses to situations we find challenging /difficult or unpleasant. People have been able to overcome and recover from it fully to liberate themselves and transform. Not everyone who's experienced depression at some stage in their life has it for long time, or gets it again and again for their entire life. I want to have faith in myself and keep finding ways to help me make changes in my self and my life for the better because I can't rely on others to do it for me. It is my life and I'm the only one who knows understands what I've been through and I know myself the most so only I can empower and motivate and enable self to get better . I can't tell others how they should be or live their lives. People have different views, perspectives about depression and that's going to remain for it is complex to understand and affects people in different ways and people have different ways of seeing and responding to things. A fact is that If I want to get better, improve or change things, I need to have positive thoughts, and address blocks in the way ,be optimistic, have inner faith, determination, courage, and strength and make positive practical constructive efforts without depending on others a lot. If I believe that nothing will work that I do, limit/restrict myself, and feel powerless/hopeless, I might as well give up altogether now. No I don't want. I know I'm a decent person and I've got a lot to give. I have value and I wanna focus on positive worthwhile helpful things to me rather than negative stressful destructive pessimistic things.

People are referred to therapy on nhs for depression and anxiety and low self esteem issues which focus on challenging negative unhelpful thought patterns and behaviours to enable people to have more freedom, confidence and control over their lives. so they are not passive recipients to all stresses or exaggerate worsen things for themselves. Its to help people respond better to things they perceive negative to reduce likelihood of depressive anxious episode. I've heard a lot that depression is a result of stressful things we've not dealt with well and suppressed emotions/feelings, like internalised anger.

But what is the plan you have now?

Different attitude is not about "positive thoughts" btw. That is ****ing Hallmark (TM) not mindfulness. Mindfulness is about realistic view of self and others. A.k.a. there is thread about what to say if somebody asks you why are you depressed and people are... suggesting to be snarky and talk about chemical imbalances. As if... you are automatically expecting others mean the worst by this question, not mere concern. All our the obsession about "fault". Where does it come from?

Maybe it's the cultural difference, because me and people around me never really obsessed about "fault" when we left kindergarden (asides of half-jokingly blaming things on the government). Maybe because I come from nation when complaining is normal and smiling for no reason is not.......... I take the questions about "why are you depressed?" as greenlight to world-woe rants (and they help often.... probably more than if i blamed my brain).

In fact Buddhism says suffering is part of life.

Anyways, what I am trying to say............... it's not between "either I have chemical imbalance or it's my fault". which would mean, it totally is our fault, because the chemical imbalance seems to be definitelly in trash, about to be taken to the landfill of psychiatry.

I think its horrible that so many people have been brainwashed to believe there's no way of freeing themselves from depression, that its an illness that can only be managed by medication and that is for life because its all down to chemical imbalance in the brain, nothing that is to do with them, just their brain not functioning normally..what is 'normal'. We're all different in our own ways.

In Buddhism, Negative thinking is the root cause of suffering and the way out of that is enlightenment through self liberation, positive actions and lifestyle choices.

great problem with this is you are putting your fate in hands of others. And really...doctor's don't care for you that much. If they did, they'd burn out in three days.

But you are setting yourself for belief you cannot do anything for yourself (not my fault, chemical imbalance, i didn't chose to be depresssed....), only doctors and meds can. And if they don't.... you start calling yourself treatment resistant and fault yourself (and your broken brain) not your likely ****** doctor and pharma's bad *** drugs.