Why can't I help myself?

Anxious Minds · Nov 27, 2014, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StbGuy

My own happiness is something I honestly don't even know anymore. I don't know what would ever make me happy. I have reached a point where I think it's time I forget about being happy. I am now only interested in at least meaning something to someone still, leaving some kind of legacy or thing that someone in the future will find useful or much-needed.

And yes, it is great when someone thanks you for what you did, but the real challenge is to serve someone who you know will never appreciate it. A person who might even hate your guts. One has to look beyond your own need to feel satisfied about doing something for someone (by them appreciating you in return). This is the nature of the world. Appreciation and satisfaction are hardly existent today. But, just like nearly drowning should never stop you from going back into the sea, so too should a lack of satisfaction not stop you from serving people. You will be hard-pressed to find it nowadays anyway. So, it's better to forget about it. I think as long as you can be satisfied with yourself and appreciate yourself for doing something, then you'll be happy eventually.

We are people who are happy when others are happy with us I have found. It's hard in today's world because people aren't happy with us and what we do anymore. The key is to be faithful to yourself and just believe that some day it will be appreciated. The person who will like what you did is still to be born. That's the way you've got to look at it I think.

Many "visionaries" were depressed people, despite being intelligent and talented. People just didn't get them and what they were about back then. Today they do.

So, you feel unappreciated for your service to others? Could you give a couple examples of a time when you did something for someone and they didn't appreciate it?

Nov 27, 2014, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anxious Minds

So, you feel unappreciated for your service to others? Could you give a couple examples of a time when you did something for someone and they didn't appreciate it?

There were times. I sometimes lecture at university, for very little money. I do it as a sideline, but enjoy it more than my main course actually. Anyway, it's like when you are teaching someone and they walk out of the class for example. Earlier this year, I helped someone financially and although it almost crippled me financially, the person got mean-spirited when I said I just can't help anymore, I am at my end. And, then there are just day to day things. In fact, I can count probably on my one hand the times in real life that I got even a "thank you" from someone. It's not that I expect it, but I admit it would feel nice. Or, like when you tell someone you love them and they ignore you and tell you to go f--- yourself basically, that's another one.

Creative1onder · Nov 27, 2014, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StbGuy

It's not just the chemical brain imbalance. When I say biological, my brain is "wired" up completely differently to someone else's. This is what my condition is about. It has led to things like depression because it has to do with 25 years of not fitting in, not being accepted, etc.

I have found too, and it is only by being rejected and being depressed that I could learn this, simple truths that cannot be escaped. I have learnt the hard way that most people only want friends who are thin/fit/look good and have lots of money. Most of us who are depressed know that there is more to life than this and it is because of our convictions that we are isolated.

Depression was an awakening for me. An awakening to stop believing in fairy tales and that everything is going to be OK. People tell themselves this on a daily basis because if they ever felt what we felt, they would crumble much faster than we ever did. Things are only OK when you make them OK. With everything there is sacrifice, and if you want something, someone else has to pay the price. People who are successful don't notice the people they walked over to get to the top. Why? Because they walk over people who never complain, people who accept abuse from others. Then they still turn around and tell them that they deserve being walked over because they are weak. That's what's going on today.

The root cause of everything is that we are people who have a need to serve others. We were placed on earth to fulfil a role of some kind. We are not like everyone else who does everything for themselves. I think most people with depression can say that they have been used and abused some way by other people. I truly believe that if you could ask God Himself how He felt right at this moment, He would be even more depressed than we are. It's not that hard to imagine, I mean, think of even a human father, and almost all of his children have abandoned him and want nothing to do with him, almost all of them turned their backs on him. That father would be pretty hurt and properly depressed I would imagine. They abandoned him to chase after pots of gold and cheap thrills, because he did not allow that in his house, as he was just trying to protect them, because he knows the pots of gold will destroy their hearts and minds.

It's this whole thing today that you're nobody unless you're "made". That's all it ever was. I am overweight, yes I am. And, as a result, I can't recall ever being treated with respect like a normal human being would be by anyone in real life. On top of that, I'm a social misfit and I didn't grow up rich. The only money I ever had was scholarships that I worked my butt off to get. People avoided me because I couldn't afford to wear branded clothing. I'm not joking. And then, to crown it all, people avoided me because I was too intelligent for their liking, I was actually told that. People would ask me to help them solve their problems and I could see them getting annoyed at me being able to do it. How can I possibly win? You hate me because I helped you.

Knowing all this now, the only challenge for me, is how do I continue to serve people still? I have to live for the handful who still appreciate it. I have to live for the people on PC for example, I have to live for my family. I have to fulfil my purpose still.

Then the big one - still serving those who don't appreciate it either. That's the ultimate challenge. Serving those that don't say thank you and those that hate you. We are people put on earth to serve, and when we follow our true purpose once again, we will once again be happy I think. Our life is not working for us because we have all been tricked into following the societal rules for success. We have allowed others to define what success means for us. We were never meant to follow that, that's why everything in our lives is dismantling.

The world out there is not as complex as we would like to believe. It's simple. We think the root our depression is complex and an interwoven web. We like to believe that there's a secret code to how people view us and if we could just tap into that then we would understand. There's nothing to understand. It's all very simple. It's like my fat problem. I've actually got it because of stuff that happened in my childhood. Given my condition, I was never really a "child". I was aware of everything from a very young age. But I was still a child. I was confronted with adult themes very early on, and like an adult, self-medicated and got addicted to things. I also think giving a 1-3 year old child coffee and soda drinks out of a BPA-containing plastic bottle every day is not a good idea either. The point is, I did get fat, from a young age, and that's all people see now. They don't care how you got there or the story behind it, the point is, you're fat and you're not like them. You're also a geek/nerd and not like them. It really is that simple. People don't respect people who are just too different, that's just a fact. You can't blame them either. For 24 hours a day, all you see on TV and in magazines is good looking rich people on top and the others at the bottom. It is a non-verbal image engrained in the minds of everyone. It doesn't matter if it's incorrect. We, of all people, should know that if you are told something long enough, you begin to believe it. I mean look at the non-truths we believe about ourselves as depressed people.

That is why, yes, they don't feel much for me, but it is my life and duty to serve in some way or another the people on this earth, and come hell or high water that's what I'll do. It is very tempting to just quit, but I think we all need to realize, we are here for a reason, and some day what we did for the human race will be noticed or appreciated somewhere along the line.

Let's not give up guys. Fulfil your purpose. If you know not what it is anymore, let's help each other find it again. What we do may seem insignificant now, but it is not. Let's not be defeated, because if we don't serve the human race, who will, and what will become of them?

What attracts people to you is not down to appearance,looks, dress style, what you do, qualities, its confidence, personality, and positive energy and enthusiam. Have you noticed how some physically not so good looking people can be popular thats because they show high level of self confidence and respect, communicate well, are chatty, have big lively personality, outgoing, extrovert, bubbly..

Creative1onder · Nov 27, 2014, 08:01 PM

Some people are manipulative good at getting you to do things for them and then making you feel bad or unappreciated or rejecting you . If you act passive, and like a rescuer you're bound to get negative abusive responses from others. Helping others is good to certain extent as long as you don't neglect yourself, self sacrifice. Being ok with yourself, and being kind, taking care of self enables you to help others more effectively.Having boundaries, saying no when you need to is important. This is linked with depression ;self sacrificing and destructive behaviours. These need to be tackled.

Nov 28, 2014, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creative1onder

...high level of self confidence and respect, communicate well, are chatty, have big lively personality, outgoing, extrovert, bubbly...

I am just naturally not that way, I have an extremely introverted personality. I can't really help it, it's just the way I was born. Not everyone can be this way, but that doesn't mean that those who aren't should be treated any "less" of a person for it. Yet, that's what I find does happen after all.

It's the same way we say there shouldn't be crime, there shouldn't be terrorism, there shouldn't be human rights violation, racism, sexism, discrimination, etc. etc. Yet, our society is made up of it. All you see on TV is crime in the news, corruption, war and what not, and then adverts in-between on how to look good and get rich, and how rich and good looking people are better than other people. This cannot be denied, it's all we see for 24 hours a day on TV and wherever. Nobody ever said it was right, but it is the accepted norm.

Creative1onder · Nov 28, 2014, 01:34 AM

There is a lot of pressure on people to be confident, outgoing, extrovert, and think positive as well as on appearance, being thin/losing weight.. Its not on the outside that counts though cos a good looking person with low self esteem quiet isnt going to be as popular as someone who is less physically attractive but charismatic, has upbeat positive energy, confidence and personality. You can change from being shy, unconfident, passive to more confident, outgoing, interactive with people and assertive. You don't want to be either totally unconfident pessimistic or overconfident overambitious unrealistic. A lot of people who appear really confident aren't though on inside,and aren't themselves, they act extrovert, talk a lot, busy but are insecure. No ones perfect.

Nov 28, 2014, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creative1onder

A lot of people who appear really confident aren't though on inside,and aren't themselves, they act extrovert, talk a lot, busy but are insecure. No ones perfect.

That is exactly what I will become if I begin to be like that. I am naturally not like that, and I don't think one should go against your very nature, no matter how screwed up it is. I've tried that and it doesn't work. A "fraud" can spot another "fraud" very easily and you'll just be ridiculed again.

Creative1onder · Nov 28, 2014, 02:20 PM

A lot of people manage to do quite well acting, not being themselves, showing confidence when they aren't. People might judge them as being positive and confident and feel drawn to them.

Creative1onder · Nov 28, 2014, 02:22 PM

In the case of work, isnt it important to act,play certain roles, show confidence and assertiveness, communicate well, to hide weaknesses, insecurities.

Anxious Minds · Nov 28, 2014, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StbGuy

That is exactly what I will become if I begin to be like that. I am naturally not like that, and I don't think one should go against your very nature, no matter how screwed up it is. I've tried that and it doesn't work. A "fraud" can spot another "fraud" very easily and you'll just be ridiculed again.

Any change you make is going to feel fake though. Your personality is a product of what you think about yourself, not a representation of who you are. Thus, if you want to make a change you have to do somethings that feel fake until you make it a part of who you are.

SmileHere · Nov 28, 2014, 04:09 PM

Have you read The Power of Introverts? (I haven't, I just find it fascinating

)

I like this thread. You are helping people even as you write about your own troubles.

I agree that sometimes visionaries or people who have attempted to do great things haven't been really understood.
If you're super-intelligent (and it sounds like you might be, since you occasionally lecture?) you may be even more lonely if you don't have people of your intelligence around you.

I admire you for lecturing/teaching, I tried it and saw it wasn't a good fit for me (at least in primary and secondary school) I hear even kids at university aren't anymore what they used to be. It must be hard teaching a generation used to Facebook, computer games and instant gratification and copy-pasting...

Expecting gratitude when you do good things is kinda natural, though it's better if you don't expect it... (and then you can be sometimes pleasantly surprised

) I believe in good karma returning if you do something good, somewhere else usually you get something good too, even if not from that same person...

SmileHere · Nov 28, 2014, 04:14 PM

As for 'why can't I help myself' - I heard it can be kind of like trying to cut your own hair - not impossible, but difficult, since you can't see the back of your head - that's why therapists or other helpful people can come helpful... to kind of 'figure out' what's going on more easily cause they have some distance, and don't get overwhelmed by the thoughts in one's head...

I do believe in self help and have read many books that have been helpful, have tried EFT and TAT and I go for a walk everyday etc. I still sometimes have had 'bad days' (partly based on weather and nutrition and things to do) One can know how to deal with these things and just 'forget', or new and unforseen 'more difficult' circumstances might happen (that's why rereading of books or programs can be helpful), and finding people who have been going through similar things...

Nov 29, 2014, 08:27 AM

Thanks guys

.

I find going against your own beliefs can sometimes yield the most surprising results. I think the hardest thing to do would be to help those people who you KNOW will probably hate you for trying to help them. But, it's like you say SmileHere, sometimes you do good and it goes unappreciated by THAT particular person, but someone else somewhere along the line does good for you again. Maybe they noticed it and empathize with your, the helper's position? Perhaps they were even in a similar situation before and didn't go ahead to help that unappreciative person and then they see you doing it, and pushing ahead anyway and maybe you re-inspire them and they actually appreciate that?

Nov 29, 2014, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creative1onder

In the case of work, isnt it important to act,play certain roles, show confidence and assertiveness, communicate well, to hide weaknesses, insecurities.

Yes it does. This happens for me when I lecture or give presentations. Speaking in front of a group of people is actually quite the thrill.

But, strangely, I don't need to think about it, the charisma and confidence seems to come naturally for me in these situations. Very strange indeed. Very out-of-character for a deeply introverted person like me.

Nov 29, 2014, 08:34 AM

I see this pattern a lot though. I have spoken to many depressed people and somewhere in the conversation it always seems to come up that they often feel used by people. I think it's the more sensitive person who is aware of the deeper needs of others who often falls into the trap of depression somehow. I think part of the reason is, people often show you that they don't want your help and that hurts. Or, they do take it and then just kind of "discard you after use" like an old oil can or something.

I think if you're a natural "helper" or "teacher", you set yourself up for a lot of disappointment. I have also learnt it's not a numbers game. 95 out of a 100 people will not benefit by your work at all, or will reject you or will even hate you. But, there are the 5 people who just can't get enough of you, who you have reached and touched so deeply. I think the noise made by the 95 others often makes us forget the impact we had on the 5.

I posted another thread before this one (An illustration of the feeling driving my depression) in which I describe this situation as a baker with a small bakery trying to compete with a burger chain outlet that opened across the road from him, and how he has to fight just to serve the one or two loyal customers who need his product, because none other will do.

It is hard. It is very hard to continue on for those who do appreciate you. But, you have to.

Clara22 · Nov 29, 2014, 05:11 PM

Some people will never learn to be grateful or reciprocal but that should not make us to stop doing good and hopping for the best, although protect ourselves from abusers is also important.
To me a key issue is that despite our values are stable we should see "being a helper" or " being a teacher" as roles more than fixed features. Thus, sometimes we can be "the one that needs help ", or "the one that cannot say 'thanks', or even "the one that is behaving like a jerk and need to be forgiven"

Dec 04, 2014, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creative1onder

...change if we want to be in better place...

The depression has made it so that it feels wrong for me even to want that, to WANT to be in a better place. I don't want anything anymore because it doesn't feel right for me to want things for me.

Creative1onder · Dec 04, 2014, 06:38 AM

Your basically surrendering to the depression saying you win i lose, im not worthy, i don't want or need to be helped, i don't care. Depression is linked with low self limiting negative destructive beliefs and behaviours. If you started to value yourself more, be more assertive, you might see depression become weaker. But if you don't do anything to change, to be better it will stay strong.

rustytears · Dec 04, 2014, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StbGuy

Why is it that I can see the pain, struggles and situations of others, especially on PC, and feel such deep empathy and sorrow for them? And, wish so much that the person gets help, and know that they deserve help. Why is it that I can see the person is a deserving person and needs love and attention, why all of this, and then I can't, for the life of me, see that I need these things too to make me healthy again? When it comes to me, every chance or suggestion of help I turn down and I just say I'll think about it. I never do, I just forget about it.

I can identify so much with what others are saying who have depression and I can immediately see how much they are hurting. Then, when I try to have compassion for myself, it all just fades and I think I deserve everything that is happening to me. I don't seek help and I don't allow anyone to help me. Why have I turned on myself, the one person who needs me the most?

Does anyone else ever feel this way?

STBguy: I feel this way on a daily basis. I am always the first person to help, lend a listening ear, a shoulder to cry on and from what many have told me great advise. Personally I really don't know what is wrong with myself and why I don't think I deserve the same in return. My counselor is trying to teach me how to love myself again, but I cant seem to make this work.

At the age of 15 I had my first attempt, she asked me if I could go back and tell that girl something what would I tell her, my response "Pills wont work" I think she was looking for an answer much like I would tell others, everything will be ok, this is just a temporary situation and things will get better you just have to believe this. However for me, I don't think I deserve to be happy, I actually go to sleep each night fingers crossed I will not wake in the morning.

vital · Dec 04, 2014, 12:47 PM

Happiness is so easy when you find it rustytears. It's one inch away from you right now.

- vital

Alone & confused · Dec 06, 2014, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StbGuy

Why is it that I can see the pain, struggles and situations of others, especially on PC, and feel such deep empathy and sorrow for them? And, wish so much that the person gets help, and know that they deserve help. Why is it that I can see the person is a deserving person and needs love and attention, why all of this, and then I can't, for the life of me, see that I need these things too to make me healthy again? When it comes to me, every chance or suggestion of help I turn down and I just say I'll think about it. I never do, I just forget about it.

I can identify so much with what others are saying who have depression and I can immediately see how much they are hurting. Then, when I try to have compassion for myself, it all just fades and I think I deserve everything that is happening to me. I don't seek help and I don't allow anyone to help me. Why have I turned on myself, the one person who needs me the most?

Does anyone else ever feel this way?

I'm the same way. I give advice that I can IN NO WAY live out for myself. Like," it's too late for me, but if I can just save someone else more deserving..."

ajohnson45 · Dec 06, 2014, 02:01 AM

I believe some people are meant to suffer in life and I am one of those people. It is as simple as that. I won't torture anybody anymore by getting to know them. Especially girls. I can't do that to someone. Letting them see my agony and suffering will torture them. This is why I can't talk to girls. I don't want anyone else to suffer like I am.

Anxious Minds · Dec 06, 2014, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajohnson45

I believe some people are meant to suffer in life and I am one of those people. It is as simple as that. I won't torture anybody anymore by getting to know them. Especially girls. I can't do that to someone. Letting them see my agony and suffering will torture them. This is why I can't talk to girls. I don't want anyone else to suffer like I am.

If you believe some people are meant to suffer in life, then that means there must be some sort of overarching plan, right? (If its meant to be, then that means that someone or something intends it to be that way.)

If that's the case, then who or what do you think has this intention?

ajohnson45 · Dec 06, 2014, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anxious Minds

If you believe some people are meant to suffer in life, then that means there must be some sort of overarching plan, right? (If its meant to be, then that means that someone or something intends it to be that way.)

If that's the case, then who or what do you think has this intention?

The big guy in the sky

Anxious Minds · Dec 06, 2014, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajohnson45

The big guy in the sky

God?

Why would he (or she or it depending on what you believe) want you to suffer in life?

Seems there's a mixed bag when it come to religion. On the one hand, it is suggested that God wants you to be happy. On the other, there's a line of thought that suggests that present suffering is meant to enhance future glory (i.e. happiness).

The first case would obviously discredit that it's God's plan for you to suffer.

The second one is interesting because if it were true that God wanted you to suffer to be happy in an afterlife, then that would mean we all were predestined to suffer (not just some, as you suggested in your post). But there are very happy, good, and religious people who know success and happiness. Are they missing the boat?

On the other hand, you might interpret the suffer now, be happy later thing to mean that your present suffering exists merely to contrast what it feels like to be happy. For without that suffering, you wouldn't know what it was to BE happy. Happiness, then, would only exist because suffering exists.

Despite where you might fall on this belief scale, I think that the thing to glean from this is that no matter what you believe, suffering is only meant to be TEMPORARY, if it is even intended at all.

Sorry for getting philosophical on you, but I wanted to bring that up to have you think about what you're saying and perhaps suggest there might be an even more powerful belief lurking behind it. Usually when a belief doesn't stand up to scrutiny like this it's because we are using it to mask an unconscious belief that is actually driving us. One that we may not even be aware of...unless we choose to examine it.

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