Sort of ironic....

Hi all

I just need to get out some steam buy babbling away, I don't mind if no one reads it... it's probably gonna be long as usual and contain a lot of stuff that is totally not interesting.

I grew up at the countryside in the middle of Norway, at a place with less than 100 inhabitants and nothing but ferries to lead us to other people. The "village" has roots back to stoneage, and many of the families there had roots to the place centuries back.

It's funny what that do to a place, and after moving out I swore I would never move back, even though they now havebuild something like 7 bridges and we can drive by car to the closest city, one hour away. Once in a while I take a week of holiday out there, even though there's nothing left but my fathers grave to connect me to the place. But the nature there is glorious, and as my father I love the nature most of all in this world. You can find everything there. Big mountains, small mountains, open sea and fjords. You can pick at least 6 different types of edible berries, fish both fresh water fish and salt water fish. You can ski in the winter and bathe in the sea in the summer. If you need to you can go for a walk in the forest or alon the beach or at the mountain, and not see a trace of human beings anywhere. Wildlife is great, with elks, fox', hares, deers, frogs, lynx', and plenty others.

And everytime I get back home after having had a holiday there I just feel how much I hate the place.

My mothers fathers family had roots far back at the place, and my fathers mothers family had roots so far back that no one could tell when they first settled there. Their surname was the name of the place.

My mothers family had a lot of insanity in it... on her mothers side. Which of course made people look at you with different eyes. My grandfather had "importet" a nutcase from the city. Depression was the main thing, but also bipolarity, personality disorders and schizophrenia. My mother took care of her schizophrenic grandmother untill she died, and after that she took very much care of her bipolar younger sister. She herself was struggling with anxiety and depression. I grew up with mental problems as a part of my life, and for me it was natural to choose psychology as my subject at the university... even though I was myself hit by the curse, and have been suffering major depression (periods of it) since the age of 11. By the age of 17 I lost my dearly beloved father, and my depression developed further to generalized anxiety and panick attack. By the age of 20 I was totally handicapped, the only chance I felt I had was to die to get off it. I tried to get help, but it was impossible. I started reading psychcology in the midst of all this, and at some point i started training my anxiety away. It took me half a year to be able to go outside my door, and 1 year to be able to go to the shop. From then on it went faster. It took longer time doing it all myself, but on the other hand at least I learned properly what to do and not. I got into the clinical psychology study by the time I started to call myself "cured". I still sometimes feel the old anxiety creep up my back, but I have total control now.

So why can't I control my depression? I have tried myself, I have been with several therapists, and I even have medication. But on a regular basis I am thrown into this deep pit and it feels like I am suffocated in darkness. My psychiatrist says it's biological based, but still I feel it ironic that I can't control it. In my point of view everything is at least partly biological (I mean, when you get a panick attack, it IS something happening in there biological too, and not ONLY thoughts).

Ironic world... I pray for the day there is more specialized medications, so they can hit the nail on the head when they medicate you. No, I don't really pray, I just hope.

CC

CC,
I found your post very interesting. I know what you mean about being suffocated into darkness. I was diagnosed with Depression and anxiety and lately I have been doing some reading on OCD. I think I may have that too. I plan on talking with my T about it at our next appointment. I don't really have any advice to share as I am in the middle of my own depression but I wanted to tell you that you are not alone. My Doctor did tell me that coming out of depression is a slow and painful process that will not happen overnight. My thoughts are with you and I sure am hoping for that magic happy pill as well. Hang in there.

I completely agree about the hoping and praying Charlie. It would be a dream come true if docs could just do a blood test and say, yuppers, this one needs Effexor, and this one will need an Parnate, and this will need Lexapro, etc. It took about 18 months of trial and error to discover that none of the SSRI's worked for me. I was then put on Effexor, and bamo - it was like they say in books. A gray curtain lifted - the colors suddenly looked brighter. That was about 4 years ago. Unfortunately, this year things got dark again...so back to the drawing board. We played around with a few things, but got me back on track just recently....same thing - I got my colors back again. Red is red. My depression is so clearly based in my chemistry.

But it's more than just taking a pill, of course. Years of depression takes it's toll on the brain. We learn to think in set patterns of negative thinking. For me, CBT helps to remind myself when I am thinking with my depressive brain. It good to at least recognize it, so I can try to change it - like you did with your anxiety. But in all honesty, without the meds, I can only notice the negative thinking....don't much have the energy to work on changing it!

Ok, guess I'm rambling too. Caffiene overdose again. Take care Charlie.

emmy

charlie, you are so descriptive in your writing. it's so interesting to read and keeps me "locked in", such as a good book does.

i can relate with you so much as to where you're at in your life. i, on my own, was able to adknowledge, name and then eliminate 99% of my panic. i deal with continual anxiety, but it almost never reaches the point of panic any longer. that's a great relief to life.

however, there are other issues where i do not have that same control. i don't have the capability. i have at least gotten to the point of naming it for what it is and i think , when in therapy, that is half the battle. i'm working with t to gain the remaining control over selves and, in the long run, happiness.

i so wish the same for you. i can understand that "going home" doesn't necessary mean "going to safety and almost bliss". i have no home to go back to. i was a military brat and we lived all over the country. you brought a new light to something i'd felt i'd always missed out on. with the childhood i had, if there was one certain place that i could go back to, i wouldn't want to. i don't think i'll ever miss what i considered i never had again...for that reason.

i hope you're well today and look forward to hearing from you soon. i think you're a most gifted person.

kd

Hi Charlie

The body is a complicated thing. Depression isn't just feeling down, it affects your physical self, just like a virus does. Sometimes you can get well from a virus or infection, and sometimes you need medicines or special care.

I get frustrated too when I can't make the depression go away. I know too well that feeling of suffocation, almost claustrophobic. Are you familiar with Harry Potter? Sometimes I feel like there are Dementors feeding on me.

Anxiety isn't just thoughts. You react. Your adrenal glands release cortisol, your heartrate goes up, your respiration increases, and maybe you feel a little shakey. I think that chronic anxiety is like a reflex. Your brain and body has reacted a certain way to something so many times, and it's really hard to change that. But it's okay. Take deep breaths and try not to blame yourself or think yourself weak for being unable to stop the reactions, stop the depression.

I was intrigued by your feelings about your hometown. I have very mixed feelings about my hometown. It is so much of who I was, who I am, but at the same time, it holds memories that I wish I could forget. And now, whenever I go there.... which is not very often... part of me feels nostalgic for the familiarity, and part of me wants to run away. I am always relieved when I drive back into the city where I now live.

*hugs*

Good to read your post Charlie. When you return to your old home, the nature overpowers the bad memories, when you return, it is no longer there and only the bad memories display. Perhaps your visits to the old homestead area will in the future allow you to work through some of the bad times, to where only the pureness of nature will abound? There is often much anger at our previous "life" and maybe only there, alone, will it feel safe enough to let some of it out. Certainly the trees and plants know what has gone on around them, and they can absorb our frustration? Home was supposed to be safe and free and fun, a place to "go home to" and be secure in life. It also holds the bad times. Going back well, it's an approach-avoidance conflict.

As for the depression, part of the dynamics is IT tells us lies. With most other disorders, this isn't included in the symptomology. Depression tells us we aren't better, when we might very well be! It tells us that it will never let us go, that there's no reason to live, and no medication will help. It gives us the feelings of helplessness and hopelessness.

You have done marvelous things in your life! While there is a big element of biology to depression, there is a mind-over-matter element also. Read back through your first post and see how you might change the wording to be positive. Our very being seems to reinforce the depressive nature.

Of course, you know me somewhat, and my depression. I trust that you know that I am not preaching at you, but trying to encourage you while I can. There are times, as you know, when the depression takes nearly full control. If it wasn't for my T at those times, I wouldn't be here.

Dear Charlie -- Thank you for sharing about your life in Norway. Your village -- minus the bad memories -- sounds like a magical place.

I know the despair of severe depression. Right now, on Effexor, I feel better than I have since my teenage years. Which is pretty amazing, considering all I've lost in the past 18 months, and that I still don't have employment and my savings are oozing away.

It took a long time to get a prescription that worked. 2 years, 11 or 12 meds. I even gave up on Effexor bec. it gave me hand tremors and made me feel all shakey. Then the depression got so bad, I had to start the medication treadmill again. But I had a new p-doc who suggested a simple solution -- take two doses a day at different times. As long as they are spaced pretty far apart, I very rarely get the side effect anymore.

You have achieved marvelous things on your own -- and I hope that you will hit upon the right combination of medication and self-help to relieve the depression. It is a miserable dark place to be.

Charlie, I am just glad to see you back. I have recently discovered that there is no home for me to go back to. it's complicated but I share your feelings about the visits. As for the depression. I firmly believe that depression mylanates (sp) certain pathways in our brain and our brains need to be chemically changed and given a chance to form the correct paths.

Thank you so much for all the nice replies

jmo531: I'm not so sure I really wanted an advice as such, I have so many good advices lying spread around that I never use, an I feel shameful about it. It always sounds so easy, and I feel stupid about walking around feeling so sorry about myself... And everytime the cloud lifts, I am surprised, because usually I havent done anything to mak eit lift, it just goes away by itself. When I start working again I will go to a privat clinic and pay them for meassuring everything that can possibly be meassured. It might not make any difference in the long run, but at least I know I have tried then.

emily4040: yes, you are right. Years and years of depression changes the chemistry in the brain... some people even claim it's permanently. I haven't managed to find a proper scientific article yet that can prove it, we'll just have to wait and see. Sometimes I just curse the fact that no one saw what was wrong when the whole spinning started when I was 11. But in that age things starts clogging up with your folks, tension is higher, and downs are viewed as usual. My mother DID send me to a psychologist when I was 12, but she did a bad job in finding a good one... oh well, too late now, better look at the things I CAN do something about. I guess.

kimmydawn: I used to write very good, and I dreamt about being a writer once. But during the years I have lost a lot of it, and everytime I start a story I seem unable to finish it. I have saved all my writings from earlier though, which should cover around 500 poems and 30 short stories. I'll pass them over to my daughter at some point. These days I'm spending so much time with writing articles and papers, that I spend my creativity on other things instead. I paint and decorate, and know a lot of different needlework. But when it clogs up, I don't feel like doing anything, nothing. These days I have serious problems eating, which is really not typically me. My boyfriend says I have to go to the doctor, but I'm a bit... for what? I don't have the energy right now. Just want to sleep. But yes, my goal is still to be abl eto control this. From the very first moment I open my eyes and just KNOW... it's started again.

obsids: yeah, I saw the first movie with Harry Potter I'm more of a Lord of the Rings fan though. Sometimes I actually wonder if my body has the need to do all this to me once in a while. But when I'm in a better state than now, I know thats ********. I've been trying to adjust my nutritients to about perfect, and that helped a lot.... but then of course something really bad happened in my family so I was sent swirling down again. I never really came back to controlling the intake of good/bad food again (it was in a good way, not a bad way, luckily I have never suffered from eating disorders), but I think it is about time to think about it again, when this ends. If I can just eat soemthing at all soon.

_Sky: I have been hoping many times that going home will help me to work through the ghosts... but so far it has just given me mor eof them. It's funny though... the worst things that happened was inside my own familys home, but that is gone now, and only faint memories are left behind. The place has also changed considerably the years I have been away.. the roead goes differently, the wood has grown wild some places and is cut down other places. But it's the people, the eyes. I get paranoid... how I come into the shop and everybody stops talking and just stares at you, and if you look at them they will pretend as if they saw straight through you. It makes me remember how they treated my mother for having left the place just to move back again later (she married and moved south, then divorced and came home with my three siblings... not very usual in the 70s). She was never again accepted, because she had "thought she was so much better than them", and besides, she was from a family of lunatics, so she was most likely a lunatic herself. Our home was filled with books, and every time someone visited us, there was a comment on that. Books doesn't have any value for many farmers.
It's how they never recognize me, even though I'm a mirror of my father, and he was a well accpeted man there. And most of the people there used to know me very well, heck, most of them are my relatives! And they don't even recognize me? Oh, and how they talk about you without ever talking directly TO you.... I could rant on forever.

Yeah, I know you're not preaching me. When I manage to take control over my thoughts, in a way, they suddenly make a new move. This time I hardly don't think at all. I just want to sleep. Sleep and sleep. I went to bed at 6pm last night, and didn't get up before 9am this morning.... but I think I could have slept all day. I dream very aggressive and confusing dreams, but wake up with my head filled of.... nothing. Just darkness. It feels like I can't walk steadily anymore, as if I'm carrying a lot of extra weight, and the food I put in my mouth just goes bigger and bigger for every chew. Oh well, I guess it will pass this time also. As always before.

Wants2Fly: Funny thing is, my antidepressives worked fine in the beginning. After the side effects wore off an dthe real effect started working, I was fine for almost 4 months... and then it was like stepping into a huge pit in th eroad just to discover I just kept going down and down. If I could choose though, I'd rather go on without any meds. I have read so much biology in my studies that the thought of using the meds from this time is scaring me... they know so little about them!

wisewoman: I'm sorry I haven't been around much for you lately, there's so many things happening, and I hardly have time to be online. But I have read some of your posts, and I see that you are still struggling with the loss of your loved one, and lots of other things. So sad to hear.
In many ways I think it's not that bad that I don't have a home to go back to as such... it's far away, and this country has so many other features than Norway. But I miss the mountain, the sea, and all the smells in the spring! Espescially in may, when the spring starts showing in Norway, and the summer is about to begin in the Netherlands, I get restless and want to go mountain walking. I tried Scotland, but it just wasn't the same (no trees, and too many tourists). And in other countries I can't find back all the small treassures I had around... the huge tree on the beach that I could sit under even if it was poring down and still be dry. The two giant rocks on the opposite side where it's just enough room for one person to slide between, and then be invisible for the rest of the world. The big hole in the ground from the iceage, that the really old Norwegians thought was made by trolls. The perfect fishing spot, the perfect bathing spot. How to get into the secret end of the fjord, what paths to go to find paradise. And so forth.
But we are now buying a house, and hopefully my daughter will find her spots around our home, and maybe I will be a better mother than my own mom, so she will share them with me



CC

Hi Charlie,

Sounds like you are surrounded by a lot of depression (I mean with your family, and being a therapist yourself).

You have some great tools to combat the depression. You have your therapist, your books, and your Professors.

Do you have "toys"?
Things you give yourself to make you feel happy.
Take time to enjoy things unrelated to your occupation.

Take vacations, go on weekend trips and stay at a hotel (with pool, sauna, and restaurants).

Make it a point to eat at a different (or favorite) restaurant at lunch time to help break up the day.

Take outside courses in something you have an interest in outside of therapy (swimming lessons,self defense classes, pottery, another language, computers).

Shop for furniture (used or new), and pick out something really nice for yourself. Redecorate a room, or even a special corner to reflect relaxation, or an interest you have.

Build an inside fountain, a bar-b-que, or different lighting and grow plants and trees inside. Try new foods and recipes or take an interest in animals.

Relax, enjoy life, make time for fun and the interests that are inside of you.

Be good to yourself!



Best Wishes,
Colors

Thank you, that's actually a very good advice, I know because I usually do that. Now lately the finances haven't been good enough for most of that stuff though. In addition I've had an important exam, I've been a lot physically sick and now an dthen there has been some big crashes between me and my boyfriend. So it has stacked up with a lot of things without me having had the opportunity to "comfort" myself much. But it was going very good anyway (untill sunday)... I just got a calendar I ordered, the first thing I've bought for myself in ages, and it was even more cool than I first thought. My boyfriend is buying us a house, something I have always dreamt of, and I am even free to decorate everything all the walls, roof and floor (within low costs, but still). Maybe because it has been so much stress in the past my mind kinda crashed when I could finally relax a bit, I know it's quite usual. But since this happen quite often with me I don't really accept it no matter what anymore. I have felt what it is to be happy (I was almost manic when pregnant, except that it was in a very good way- ecstatic!), and I don't require that all the time, but I want to get rid of the big dark cloud that is constantly hitting for me...

Enough about that. If the money that suddenly apeared on my account is something I can keep, then I'm going to spend a whole day shopping in Amsterdam, and if that can't at least get me out of the pajamas nothing can!

CC

Stay with it Charlie. You have to set priorities, and that is your mental health. Make time for yourself and do some of the things you know will make you happier. Put it down in your appointment book and do it.

Have some fun, and find some ways to enjoy life, even the calendar sounds great! When I do not have much money to spend, I still do the same things, but spend a lot less. One of the things I found interesting recently is shopping the used stores. It is so surprising what can be found and enjoyed.

Just open your appointment book and start jotting in time slots. It makes the day seem so much happier!

Best Wishes,
Colors