Possible derealisation

Hello all,

You'll have to excuse me if I ramble in this post, but this will be my first foray into examining my mental health online, and I feel like I must give you the full picture.

Around this time last year, I first experienced what I can only describe as "derealisation", a sort of perpetual brainfog or "waking dream" sensation. I can recall with perfect clarity the instance I noticed it for the first time: I was outside in the garden playing with my dog, and as I sat down in the grass to rest, I suddenly became aware of this feeling of not quite being there, as if there was something wrong with my eyes, or I couldn't "feel" correctly.

I still have it today, and some days I notice it more than others, but I've had it for so long that it almost feels normal. I feel disconnected from my surroundings, as if I am walking through some bizarre solipsist construct; that I struggle to focus, not visually, but mentally, as if I am looking at everything from behind a pane of clouded glass or cotton wool.

It's definitely not debilitating, but I feel as if the old me is dead and I am now simply an automaton going through the motions.

I've had this examined, too: about the first time I started experiencing it, my doctor chalked it down to hypochondria (another seriously major issue for me), especially because I knew the term "derealisation"; after a series of low points over the following months, in January, I was so convinced that I had a brain tumour that I opted for an MRI scan which revealed nothing but very mildly inflamed sphenoid sinuses, a diagnosis that every doctor since has dismissed unconcernedly. It is certainly true that I constantly have a blocked nose, ears that click when I swallow and oftentimes, a dull, non-specific (hardly painful) headache, but I can't imagine they could be responsible for something as intangible as a dissociative disorder.

After that, I went to two sessions of psychotherapy, but they weren't helpful. I was recommended relaxation techniques, and that was pretty much it.

So, that's my story. Does anyone else experience derealisation (as opposed to depersonalisation - I'm the one that feels real, everything else does not) and if they do, how have they coped or treated it? A cure would be good, too.

Hi Saxon -

Sorry to hear you're having issues with derealization. It can be quite disconcerting some days. I get both derealization and depersonalization. Sometimes it's just one or the other, and other times it's both at the same time. This has been happening to me since I was a child, but I didn't have a word for it until I was 30 years old. (I'm 41 now.) I used to call the episodes "grey outs", because when I'm DR'd, most colors tend to fade to grey. That's actually one of the main things I use to help bring the world back into focus - color. The one color that I can still somewhat see is red, so I'll focus on the red in my surroundings. If I'm going to a meeting, I'll bring a red folder. It sounds a bit odd, but it works.

There is no cure for it, per se, but they have done some studies and found some medications helpful for it. I have heard of people using SSRI antidepressants and benzodiazepines with some success, but then others feel no benefit from them. It is something a psychiatrist would probably need to treat, though, as it really is out of the realm of the family physician.

There is a good book available about depersonalization and derealization called Feeling Unreal: Depersonalization Disorder and the Loss of the Self by Daphne Simeon. You don't have to have Depersonalization Disorder to have DP or DR. It can often come on with depression, trauma, anxiety, marijuana use, or even when you're just tired in a milder, transient form. It's our brain's way of protecting itself from psychic pain at times and is a normal, helpful mechanism in certain situations. Sometimes it gets out of whack, though, and that's when it becomes a troubling condition.

You mentioned remembering when you first noticed it, while playing with your dog. Did anything traumatic happen in the days or weeks shortly before then? Have you ever smoked pot? How long had you had your dog? Sometimes it's helpful to narrow down what the original source of the dissociation might have been and then work through that with therapy.

The next time you feel DR'd, take a good look at your surroundings, as unnerving as it may feel...is there anything that stands out to you as seeming "less unreal" than the rest of it? Focus on that and see what happens.

Oh, and welcome to PC.

Thanks for the reply, dragonfly.

What concerns me is that people talk of "episodes" of DP and DR, whereas my feeling of derealisation is almost constant, like a brainfog. I don't notice it when I don't think about it, but on some days, perhaps when I'm down, worried, tired or stop to think about it for too long, it gets bad. Speaking of greying out, come to think of it, when I "defocus" my eyes and stare off into space, it often feels as if all the colour is fading from the environment until I "refocus" them and snap out of my trance, so to speak.

As for pot, nope, I've never done it. My dog, when this happened, would have been 4 years old and was in perfectly good health. I asked my psychotherapist about all this, i.e. "Why then?" and she said that it wasn't necessarily a cause and effect thing. I talk about it in the "Anxiety, Phobias" forum, but I have a serious problem with hypochondria, and around this time, I was really worrying about being seriously ill. (I wasn't. As usual. :P) As you say, DR can result from anxiety, so maybe that's it.

Indeed, I don't really feel anxious all the time, but a lot of my thoughts are negative, cynical or fatalist. There aren't many moments when I genuinely panic, but I zone in on the slightest ache or pain and worry about it, and this is a daily occurrence. When I had this examined by the doctor when the DR first occurred, she said I was essentially high on adrenaline, that my heart had not stopped beating at a hundred miles a minute since I first walked in her door. My psychotherapist later said that our biochemical goings-on can be put out of sync or altered negatively to keep the "fight or flight" response going; it all becomes normal as opposed to abnormal.

It often feels like this brainfog-like DR is a physical thing, as if I could reach into the back of my head and literally pull it out. I had an MRI which revealed nothing more than mildly inflamed sphenoid sinuses (and my doctors all think this is something that's basically "one of those things"). A recent blood test and an eye examination earlier this year showed nothing sinister.

I experience some odd in and out of body things and find objects (like my house and car) and people (including my children at times) unfamiliar. This has been a daily thing for many years - I switch off from it so am not always aware, but when I do become aware it is rather unnerving.

I have read there is no treatment, so I am just trying to be interested in it rather than trying to stop it or change it - it is just about being me right now, kind of quirky

Yes, that's exactly how I feel, SoupDragon. When I'm not thinking about it, I don't notice it. It's just... me.

I've read likewise, but I've also read things on the contrary. I've heard certain anti-psychotic drugs work (but I'm not keen on pursuing that avenue), that it "goes away" after a while (I remember reading someone say that they had it for 5 years and it eventually just stopped, though he/she didn't specify why; could have been an upturn in their life, or something) and that CBT and certain anxiety-management treatments can be useful.

I'm really interested in watching the film Numb with Matthew Perry. In it, he suffers DP (close enough) and struggles to come to terms with it as he visits doctors, psychiatrists and therapists who never give him in any solid answers. Check out the trailer on .

Hi Saxon - I bought a copy of this film and have watched it. It is quite amusing

Your derealisation could be a way for your mind/body to cope with your constant anxiety. Since you say you don't necessarily FEEL anxiety all of the time, perhaps your mind has just grown tired of constantly being on edge & it just kind of separated you from your environment to protect you. Though I don't have any type of dissociative disorder other than depersonalization episodes when I'm going through severe mania, it does happen to me after a very serious panic attack or when something very stressful happens. I just feel like, while everything exists around me, that it is all blank & devoid of any real connection to me.
I hope I was able to help. I hope you feel better soon.

Saxon, your psych is an idiot! Don't listen to them! That's called dissociation or a chronic dissociative episode. Google those terms. When people are stressed to the point of breaking they naturally go into this state of "unrealness" that protects them. They can still act somehow (although not with great control), and it's exactly this reason why the episodes occur. It often happens to people in life-or-death situations and allows them to escape unharmed without having to think or feel - they just do as if it were happening to another person and they were only watching. You see, the brain constructs the experience of consciousness by integrating different sensory systems and mental functions (like memory retrieval) into one coherent "reality". It produces a feeling which we normally have every day that makes us believe we are "ourselves, one, whole, and a distinct entity apart from our mere body". This is actually generated by your brain and it can be shut off, as happens in life-or-death scenarios. I am certain that anxiety and stress are the cause of your dissociative episode, and it has nothing to do with DID. Remember, when people keep anxiety and stress bottled up so they don't have to feel it it's at this point that they become vulnerable to overwhelming feelings and protective dissociative episodes that act as a buffer. In case your wonder, I have first hand experience having suffered this myself.

Dear Saxon,

I would never attempt to tell you what type of dissociative problems you have. But Phoboxyl's oversimplified Googled terminology is not medically correct or accurate. May I suggest you look at Nami's definition, the National Institute of Mental Health, or a wonderful article hear on PC by a Dr. Steinberg, an expert on dissociative disorders, with a lengthy and detailed explanation of the continuum of dissociative disorders from very mild to dissociative fugue or DID which may be due to stress but most often are trauma related.

They have specific characteristics and symptoms that might or might not relate to you and the information you collect and take to your doctor might help in your diagnosis. Journals can also be very helpful. I believe that there are only 5 formally recognized classifications right now, but others are being considered for the next DMV as I understand it.

I do not claim to be an expert in any way and am on a learning curve myself. I believe strongly that only a professional should make any diagnosis of your symptoms and the best treatment tailored for your symptoms, diagnosis and difficulties.

Good luck in your healing process and in learning to deal with your symptoms..

Most Respectfully,
Wysteria Blue

Wysteria,

I shouldn't have diagnosed Saxon as I was instructed not to do so. I apologize for that.

However, my claims are not medically inaccurate at all and I am not simply "googeling" my information as you put it. It seems you are upset with me for acting like an "authority" on the matter when you feel that I am not qualified. Understood, I'm not an authority, but there's no need to tear me down. The fact of the matter is I have personal experience with this matter and I am qualified to give my OPINION on what it is. I wasn't diagnosed formerly but I apparently suffered from Depersonalization disorder (DPD) together with Panic Disorder for something like a year and a half when I was younger (and very few relapses ever since). The term "dissociative episode" is real medical nomenclature and if you actually had "googled" it you would see that. I didn't learn this term from google anyway, I learned it from a psychotherapist when I was describing my SYMPTOMS. As for the explanation for DPD and acute dissociative episodes, there is a body of literature on the subject which has dealt with its evolutionary origins and at least one major theory holds that it is a survival strategy that is out of control.

I am offended and hurt by your suggestion because it is invalidating, and the whole point of NOT GIVING DIAGNOSES in the first place is to avoid INVALIDATING OTHER PEOPLE. Anyway, I don't want to go on about this or argue, I just wanted to let you know that what you said isn't cool, that I'm sorry for overstepping the boundaries on PC, and that I contributed something meaningful and not simply "concocted". I wouldn't do that.

Don't listen to them! That's called dissociation or a chronic dissociative episode. Google those terms. When people are stressed to the point of breaking they naturally go into this state of "unrealness" that protects them.

Too right Phoboxyl, and what you said is meaningful as its spoken about your experiences and knowledge and with kindness none of which the psych has. When I read the above quote it felt like a faint memory of my soul understood what you said. So dont take offense, its easy too when you are trying to help or have done nothing wrong but try to the right think and people comment insensitively.

(((((( mala )))))) Thanks a lot for the support. A lot of people (with issues I might add) are offended by my style because I am action oriented and I tell you straight up what's wrong with you. As Dr. David Burns says, being supportive and talking about problems may make you feel better but in the end it leaves you in the same mess you were in. I want to GET OUT of here, not be stuck in here feeling lovey-dovey. And when I see another person in need I want to help them get out too. At the very least this way I feel like my life is having a positive impact rather than just being wasted in sickness. Whenever I feel stuck it's especially helpful to me to help others because seeing them improve makes me feel like it's not hopeless and encourages me to try and get better.

Having rescieved mixed DX over the years. I to will encourage you to look into the different definitions that are out there.
As I was reading this thread we had a light bulb go on.
There are times that we choice not to feel pain or endure what is happening to us at a given moment. At one time I was told it was Disassotive fatgue. Where the mind blacks out due to the overload of stress.
It is a coping skill that most of us learn with out even knowing it.
recognising it and then choicing to exsperence it was the key for us to reduce the amount of times it was happening to us.
We hope that you can find someone that will work with you and accept you as you are a person.

Dear Phoboxyl,

You know, I reread my post and realized I made an *** of myself and for that I am deeply and horribly apologetic and am so very sorry. I am deeply ashamed of myself and make a very public apology for offending you and invalidating you. I am truly very, very sorry. I think I misread what you were saying and reacted totally inappropriately. I just came back online tonight and have been gone a week or I would have apologized much sooner.

I think was sort of reacting to you sort of diagnosing her and was honestly just hoping she would go to some medical or scientific sites for information about all the dissociative disorders and to some experts that would listen to her concerns and validate her fears and symptoms, but I should never have reacted to you or invalidated you in the process.

Please accept my most sincere and abject apologies. I will be so much more careful in what I say and how I say it in the future...Again, I am truly sorry for hurting your feelings and making you feel bad....

Most Respectfully,

Wysteria Blue

Wow, I was honestly expecting you to chew me out further when I clicked on this post and I'm very happy that you apologized! Thank you so much. I feel bad myself because I wrote you off as an a**hole to be honest and didn't even conceive that you might have simply made a mistake. In times past I would have reacted to your initial post with vitriolic rage, but I have been learning to be civil, understanding, and reach agreements with people in the last few years. This was an exercise in that learning process and I'm truly grateful it worked out. Look what might have happened had I responded in my old ineffective and misguided way! We never would have come to such an understanding and would probably despise each other. This teaches me also that I need to be careful when making flash judgments about others. There is something called "the fundamental attribution error" which is a bias that causes Americans to perceive any negative action on another person's part as intentional and global to their character rather than as accidental and situational. It's clear that you are a well meaning and kind person who just acted out in one situation, and had I considered this possibility I might not have felt so bad about it in the first place.

Thanks for the kind words and understanding.