[Claritytoo]

I there ever a time during a therapy session that a therapist will do what they feel is right even though the patient is saying no to the therapists suggestion? So if a t wanted the patient to hold a toy to help them feel better but the patient didn't want to is it ok for the t to give it to the patient any way?

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Claritytoo

I there ever a time during a therapy session that a therapist will do what they feel is right even though the patient is saying no to the therapists suggestion? So if a t wanted the patient to hold a toy to help them feel better but the patient didn't want to is it ok for the t to give it to the patient any way?

here in New York, which is in the USA.... no means no..... if anyone regardless of whether its a stranger, relative, friend or treatment provider forces their self, their views and such onto another it is considered to be against the law under such crimes as rape, coercion, endangering the welfare of a person of diminished capacity/mentally ill or minor, emotional abuse, physical abuse and other such abuse crimes depending upon the situation.

[Claritytoo]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

here in New York, which is in the USA.... no means no..... if anyone regardless of whether its a stranger, relative, friend or treatment provider forces their self, their views and such onto another it is considered to be against the law under such crimes as rape, coercion, endangering the welfare of a person of diminished capacity/mentally ill or minor, emotional abuse, physical abuse and other such abuse crimes depending upon the situation.

Having read your response I almost started to defend the therapist but I think you are right. That true,in that moment in therapy the person may need help but if one of the others says no, that needs to be respected. because if it isn't it will effect how the other alters feel about the therapist. It may seem urgent at the time but in those moments the therapist needs to be patient and allow the patient to work out what ever issue is preventing them from accepting the help. Thanks.

My therapist will push to do what she believes is right even if sometimes i dont agree with her (or one of the inside kids) and that is just fine wth us. She mit be trying to work thru something in a certain way, she is the one who is an expert in trauma therapy and DID therapy, not us. We trust that she knows what shes doing. There is however a tone of voice we use when absolutely no means no, and she respects that and will stop but she is welcome to push and push us if she wants to. Its part of our therapy.

[Claritytoo]

Originally Posted by Starry_Night

My therapist will push to do what she believes is right even if sometimes i dont agree with her (or one of the inside kids) and that is just fine wth us. She mit be trying to work thru something in a certain way, she is the one who is an expert in trauma therapy and DID therapy, not us. We trust that she knows what shes doing. There is however a tone of voice we use when absolutely no means no, and she respects that and will stop but she is welcome to push and push us if she wants to. Its part of our therapy.

That is an interesting thought that your system is ok with your t sometimes pushing. The pushing is new to me and I don't know how I would have reacted if my t went ahead and did something even though I was saying no. There are some of us who trust her and want to tell her things but some of us are still keeping a watchful eye. I will keep an open mind but I will need to have this conversation with my t. I believe she is wanting to help but maybe part of the healing is getting there myself.

If my t didnt push hard we would never make as much progress as we have. And she can push very very hard. To the point of us yellling at her to stop it, and she will not-- and we have told her that it is ok for her to do that. We need her to do that. W havehad our biggest brealthroughs when she has pushed us through these hardest most painful moments in therapy. T can push hard and she will get right in our face and say "i will NOT stop". That is totally okay with us, as hard as it is. Thats what shes there for.

[Claritytoo]

Originally Posted by Starry_Night

If my t didnt push hard we would never make as much progress as we have. And she can push very very hard. To the point of us yellling at her to stop it, and she will not-- and we have told her that it is ok for her to do that. We need her to do that. W havehad our biggest brealthroughs when she has pushed us through these hardest most painful moments in therapy. T can push hard and she will get right in our face and say "i will NOT stop". That is totally okay with us, as hard as it is. Thats what shes there for.

Just reading that triggered my anger. I could never be in therapy and have my therapist do something I didn't want. I would get very angry very fast and have to leave or explode. I still feel very vulnerable in therapy. I am not used to telling my personal stuff. It has taken me a long time to be able to go into session and talk. And right now there is a lot going on inside. I don't think it would be something I would handle well.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Claritytoo

Just reading that triggered my anger. I could never be in therapy and have my therapist do something I didn't want. I would get very angry very fast and have to leave or explode. I still feel very vulnerable in therapy. I am not used to telling my personal stuff. It has taken me a long time to be able to go into session and talk. And right now there is a lot going on inside. I don't think it would be something I would handle well.

at first when i was reading starry nights posts about how she and her therapist do things it did push my trigger button... until I went back and reread her posts...

claritytoo theres a difference between a therapist pushing a client and a therapist forcing a client.

whats happening with starry night and her therapist is pushing. not forcing.

if you read starry nights posts you will see the words stating she gave her therapist permission to do this.. its not forcing her to do anything she doesnt want to happen.

lets take it outside of the therapy mode for a moment...

here where I live and work theres a saying...

no means no but sometimes no really means yes..

example if you tell someone "no dont slam the door" with nothing else after that... saying no means no.

but if you tell someone something like.."sometimes I say dont slam the door but even if I keep saying no i want you to keep slamming the door"

thats turning the no dont do something into a yes do it.

another example of when no sometimes means yes ...sometimes when my wife and I are together no comes out of my mouth, not because I want to or need to stop, but because I am just blurting out what word is in my head, or reacting to something unrelated to what my wife and I are doing, or I say it because I have been taught to say it so it comes out of my mouth out of habit. kind of like some people say the f word. they dont really mean to start doing that action, or engage in that activity, it just comes out of their mouth out of habit because the word seems to fit at that moment. my wife and I have a different word than no, which means to stop immediately.

what Im getting from starry nights posts is something like this.. she knows she sometimes the word no will come blurting out of her mouth even though she the aware self wants to continue working in therapy. so she and her therapist have talked about this and they came to an agreement that in her case no really means yes unless she says it a different way.

this isnt making someone do something that they dont want to do, like you talked about in your post. you and your therapist do not have an agreement where its understood that no means yes unless its said in a different way. so for you no means no and to top right there.

theres a big difference between a therapist pushing with permission and a therapist pushing with out permission. its not abusive if permission has been granted, its only abuse if no permission has been given.

All therapists have a way of pushing to some extent other wise they would not be therapists they would be our friends. some therapists push in a way that gives their clients that gut wrenching no reaction and others push in a calm guiding way through asking the right questions at the right times instead of being forceful.

theres no one way for a therapist to be and each person responds to their own needs and wants from their therapist. me I like a therapist who is direct, doesnt let me off the hook so to speak but doesnt drill sargent /drag me through the mud whether I want to or not style. Ive had enough people in my life that did force me to do things a child should never have to go through, so doing things the hard way of me fighting my therapist and my therapist drill sargent drag me through the mud anyway would only cause me to have flashbacks and other PTSD issues that I have from already going through abuse as a child.

but getting back to your original post, I answered the way I did because your post left no leeway, if, ands or buts. no where in there did I see you gave a therapist permission to force you to hold a toy, so making you do so when you dont want to would be considered abuse here where I live.

[Claritytoo]

You are right about my first post. When I was in session one of my little ones was there. She was very upset, emotional and having body memories. She wanted to talk but she wasn't sure she had a voice and wasn't sure what she would sound like. Also I was having some feelings of embarrassment over how she might behave or sound. I believe my concerns stopped her from talking. We have discussed this and I know it is not fair of me to stop her from saying what she needs to. I need to work on that. My t had asked me a few time if she could give her a toy to help her feel better. I said no and I meant no. There is something about toys and playing that is scary and unsafe. I have explained this to my t but I don't think she understands the depth of it. My t, who was very calm and reassuring, ask me if she should push a little harder. I said no, My t explained that there are times when it is better for us if she pushed a little more that she does. This did not think my others would receive this well. So I said no and she listened. After session I started to think about what happened. I couldn't understand why she would push if I said no. Your responses and the others have given me more insight. It helps me to know that this is a therapeutic approach and not just her being impatient.
I am going to bring a blanket in case someone needs comforting. That I am sure I would hold. My t is very respectful of my limits. I just interpreted her insistence as her being impatient and that caused some of the others to become defensive. I need to ask people who have gone through this. Your response and the response of the others has be very helpful to me. I would not have thought of the blanket if it wasn't for these responses. Thank you

Exactly what amanda louise said.

And my therapist also gives loads and loads of comfort. She is the most comforting person i know. She doesnt just push hard. She rewards with praise and comfort and hugs and stuff. She is very positive and helpful. Therapy doesnt feel vulnerable to me with her. I trust her completely because over the years she has proven herself to be trustworthy. W can talk about anything,

[Claritytoo]

I have asked my t not to touch me. We have all agreed that we will not touch my t. I am concerned that something would be misinterpreted by one of my others. If that happened there is a good chance that one of my protectors could become very angry very quickly. There is a point when I get angry that I explode. I sometimes see it coming but there is nothing I can do to stop it. It happens in a flash. In the beginning of therapy I had a lot of conflicting feelings toward my t. Most of us now see her as a helper But she is still not one of us. So we all agreed that my t don't touch us and we don't touch her. Right now it is what make us feel most comfortable in therapy.