Dissociation ?

All right.. well I guess I'll tell my story and just go from there... I was diagnosed bipolar about 2 1/2 years ago.. 32 now. I've been bipolar in my mind since about 17 and major depressive before then. Anyway...

I've always been extremely introverted... don't know if that means anything?

I have what I've always just called "blackouts".. basically I will become irritable to the point of blowing up or shutting down, at these times I will sometimes go 3 to 4 days where my life is altered.. after 3 or 4 days are gone.. I come around to my "normal" self.. at this point I'm not even sure why I lost it most times.. and basically cannot remember what people said or i said.. forget which day was what and often not sure if one, two or three weeks have passed(when i say that i don't mean clueless but i have to play days back in my head and try to figure it out)... me and my wife talked the other night for a long time.... she didn't understand the extent of my blackouts... i didn't realize just how "scary" i can be.... we went over alot of the past and i didn't realize the extent i took things or completely forgot some things all together.. (texting one of my therapists on a wild rant etc...)... i'not sure where this fits in.. i know i can't be diagnosed here but im just curious what people think/? is this extreme? I really don't know.. i've been in IOP (intensive outpatient program) for going on 2 weeks now... I plan to discuss this more there (not dissociation but the extent of my blackouts and possibly have my wife come in and talk to my therapist)... anyway..

What do I think...you definatley need to contact your treatment providers to sort out everything. when I dont recognize a poster I check out their profile and past posts. with all that you have posted during your time here there are many different things that can be the cause of this problem you posted here in this thread.

what I can tell you is that here where I live and work in order for something to be called a dissociation related symptom/problem things like past drug and alcohol use/other mental disorders, medications, other physical health problems need to be ruled out. including whether the problem is a "black out" vs dissociative loss of time/dissociative amnesia symptoms.

let me give you some examples in my life...

when I had black outs I went to my treatment providers. after going through their assessments it was determined the problem was not a dissociative one but was a drug side effect of being in the same room in which others had been using weed.

Another time when I was having black outs and my treatment providers put me through their assessment tests the problem turned out to be not a dissociative one but a physical health problem called Multiple Sclerosis.

Another time when I lost a huge chunk of time it turned out to be a bipolar mania symptom not a dissociative type time loss...

I have even had times where I could not remember days/weeks and it wasnt called dissociation it was called sleep deprivation, poor diet, and other problems...

on the other hand when I had a space of time which I could not remember what went on, that was accompanied by other symptoms my treatment providers called this dissociative amnesia.

my point is the only way you are going to know whether this problem you are having is part of bipolar disorder, anything else you have posted about or a dissociative symptom is to be completely honest with your treatment providers and let them know what is going on. they will be able to tell you what is normal for you and what this is for you.

Thank you.. and wow. . So dissociation can't be triggered?

Ummm loop hole................. Dissociation can be triggered.

But it seems that dissociation can also have other causes - sometimes physical.

You need to ask your treatment providers about what is happening in your situation.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Dissociation can be triggered, however when it is in tandem with other issues (ie:May be better explained by some other disorder or reason), it will first be attributed to that rather than any stand-alone dissociative disorder. What you are describing sounds like the dissociation (blackouts) associated with the bipolar and rages.

Dissociative Identify Disorder is not something that develops easily or even all that often. It is a much more severe form of dissociation, associated with severe and prolonged child abuse/trauma. There are several milder forms of dissociation that involve various levels of disconnect from the moment. The professional understanding of dissociation is constantly changing. With the newest edition of the dsm that came out this past year, diagnostic criteria around a lot of disorders have changed... As amandalouise and possummentioned though, all of that is best discussed with your treatment providers (they *should* have a better understanding of both your symptoms and of the current diagnostic criteria).

Ummmmm...................... the first person replied and kinda made it sound like when triggered they called it something else. . So ummmm that's why I asked...

here where I live and work the word triggered in mental health terms means the person feels strong emotions....

examples....

when I am online, sometimes something goes on that makes me feel sad and apprehensive for others online. feeling this way is called being triggered.

sometimes I will be walking to work and a dog will start barking at me before I realize they are behind the fencing. this causes me to have a momentary panic attack. feeling this way is called being triggered.

Sometimes when I am not feeling well what someone says can make me feel very angry. feeling this way is called being triggered.

sometimes when I am reading posts, the posts words can cause me to feel upset, uncomfortable. Feeling this way is called being triggered.

A person can feel triggered any number of ways for what ever number or reasons.

here where I live and work ...dissociation

in general means a person is feeling numb, spacy, not quite connected to their self, their surroundings.

there are many different things that can cause a person to feel dissociated....

trying to nail down whether something is dissociation or not is a process of ruling in and out things that are causing the person to feel dissociative like symptoms...

here in America there are new diagnostic criteria that says things like other mental/physical health problems, drugs, alcohol, medication side effects and religious factors must be ruled out before something can be called a dissociation problem.

here is where you can read more about what dissociative disorders we have here in the USA and what treatment providers go by for dissociation problems here in the USA...

http://forums.psychcentral.com/disso...s-dsm-5-a.html

thats why with in me those many different ....dissociative like ....symptoms were called other things....

according to my treatment providers the symptoms I had after being in the room with others while they smoked weed could not be called dissociation because it was the weed that caused it.

the same with the other problems I listed...those situations were not called dissociation problems because they were caused by other mental and physical health problems,

let me use something from one of your past posts....you stated in a past post you have a history of using marijuana.

Using the ......USA...... standards before your black outs can be called a dissociation problem your treatment providers will need to figure out if your marijuana use is what has caused your black outs.

if the past or present marijuana use is whats causing the black outs then the problem will be called a medication/drug ....side effect.

if the marijuana use is not whats causing the black outs and there are other dissociative type symptoms that are not caused by other mental physical problems, meds ......not caused by anything that has to be ruled out then it will be called dissociation.

Thanks for reply! Very sincere and in depth. The Marijuana use stopped about 4 and half years ago..

I talked to my therapist since I'm in php. (i kept calling it iop but got corrected today at our meeting that it's called partial hospitalization. ..) she said I should tell my dr and let him know.. apparently I have been talking about blackouts all these years and no one had a clue what I was talking about. at least the extent. .. in fact today my wife presumed (kind of accused me) I was taking more of some of my meds when in fact I had not. .. .. after telling the dr exactly what I was talking about he is now gonna run an eeg to rule out epilepsy (don't really understand that but he explained it as best he could)... if that's not the case he will presume it's dissociation and he said it's a high probability that that's 5 he case but he wants to test for epilepsy as there are apparently meds that can help with that... I've also been completely honest and open about everything there.. even the scope of my past drug history which was only Marijuana and alcahol but the Marijuana was in heavy excess...

I kind of understand what you are talking about.
I personally experience a sort of… incomplete memory, you might call it, of rages. In the worst ones anyway. It may be just as well. I'm mortified over them as it is. Really strong emotions can bring on a disconnect, and rages definitely are that(!)

The most extensive (and downright disturbing) overload memory loss for me was a night I woke up in the extreme pain of my life (which is a long time). I'll spare details, but it was the only time in my life that I actually asked (cried out begging, more like) to be taken to the ER. I had no memory of 90% of what happened(!!!) Days later BF filled me in (on most of, as you will see). I was incredulous. These were things that should have been very memorable(!) At a followup appt., the doctor said, "let's look at the x-rays". My jaw dropped, "There were x-rays???!!!!!" She looked at me like I had 7 heads. It's 2 years later now. The "filled" in (by BF) parts are still extremely blurry, more like a dream you can't quite remember than reality. I still have zero memory of the x-ray. But I saw the film, so it must have happened(!)

Anyhow, it's interesting that you say you go "out" for 3-4 days. My BF does this sometimes too. He is not his normal self (and can be scary sometimes in the midst of). I have always felt immense relief when he comes out of it, and have always referred to it as "having him back". He does experience emotions very strongly. (None of his dx's really account for it, so can't help you there.)

On the epilepsy check…. it's something I've heard before, and even upon reading up (just now), I don't totally understand it either. But. There can be a loss of memory component. Also, some of the meds used are the same as used for BP. So…. again, not sure exactly, but seems worthwhile. Might be in order to rule that out, as other have mentioned above regarding symptom causes.

Good luck. That sort of loss of memory can be very disconcerting.

Thank you. .. yah it's not a form of epilepsy and and has been ruled dissociation by my therapist and dr.... they've been doing extensive emdr with me (not just the eye kind.. the paddles you put in your hands have worked way better for me)... I can't recall about 4 years of my life when I was much younger... a room in the house my parents used to live at *deleted due to to much info*

Yes, dissociation can be triggered (and often is). This is separate from a drug altered state, but a word, sound, smell, thought, etc. can trigger a dissociative state (and these can range from "deer in the headlights" kind of dissociation, all the way to curled in a ball in the corner keeping "safe" from some either known or unknown terror, and everything in between.