[LenoraThompson]

Hello,

I'm new here and would greatly appreciate insight into a phenomenon I call "living symbolically."

Growing up in a narcissistic/codependent family, we behave as if everything were PERFECT at all times. Happy. Never irritable. No boundaries. No anger.

But, things were far from perfect. Itf's so ingrained, even to this day. It's only at moments of extreme upset that I feel life is real. Sometimes, it's as though I'm seeing myself clearly for the first time. Very difficult to describe.

Is this dissociation or just being an actress/living in my head?

Thanks!

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by LenoraThompson

Hello,

I'm new here and would greatly appreciate insight into a phenomenon I call "living symbolically."

Growing up in a narcissistic/codependent family, we behave as if everything were PERFECT at all times. Happy. Never irritable. No boundaries. No anger.

But, things were far from perfect. Itf's so ingrained, even to this day. It's only at moments of extreme upset that I feel life is real. Sometimes, it's as though I'm seeing myself clearly for the first time. Very difficult to describe.

Is this dissociation or just being an actress/living in my head?

Thanks!

if you were here in my location no this would not be called dissociation. it would be called being a perfectionist (striving to show and be perfect) striving to be perfect and to show a perfect front is a learned behavior. children are taught from the moment that they learn how to speak to do things right (parents correct a childs speech, how they dress, how they walk, how they hold their forks and spoons, how to behave in public.... then the child goes to school and what happens a teacher teaches them how to do their assignments perfectly, how to behave in the classroom, how to participate correctly in classes. then the child grows up into teen ager and what happens, they learn how to be perfect according to their friends standards through peer pressure, sleep overs and such, then the child grows into adult hood and what happens when they get a job..they have to perform that job to the perfection of their boss or get fired.

my point the world is full of times where a person is influenced to behave a a certain way and do things a certain way, thats life.

unfortunately sometimes this normal standards gets reinforced to the extreme for many different reasons and then the child learns to be perfect or suffer the consequences and has problems with not knowing when that learned behavior of being perfect doesnt need to apply, that its ok to make mistakes.

a person can unlearn or relearn \reteach their self so that their attempting to be perfect is more with in the scope of being real. for example rather than doing the dishes right way so that my kitchen looks perfect, I take time after dinner to read a story to my children and sure enough after reading the story the house didnt fall in simply because i didnt clean my kitchen to perfection after dinner. I purposely do not wear certain clothes on my day off simply to practice that its ok the world isnt going to end just because my sock or jeans have a hole in them.

I know many people who are like this some even resort to things like self injury behaviors to get that rush of feeling real when they need to drop their guard and stop trying to be perfect.

i know many people with OCD have a perfectionist view of their self and their environment. usually medication helps for this.

I cant diagnose you but what I can say is that here in america feeling like one needs to be perfect is not a symptom nor diagnostic criteria for dissociation or dissociative disorders.

my suggestion would be to contact a treatment provider, they can evaluate whether your being a perfectionist falls into things like normal, OCD or other things.

[flockpride]

Originally Posted by LenoraThompson

Hello,

I'm new here and would greatly appreciate insight into a phenomenon I call "living symbolically."

Growing up in a narcissistic/codependent family, we behave as if everything were PERFECT at all times. Happy. Never irritable. No boundaries. No anger.

But, things were far from perfect. Itf's so ingrained, even to this day. It's only at moments of extreme upset that I feel life is real. Sometimes, it's as though I'm seeing myself clearly for the first time. Very difficult to describe.

Is this dissociation or just being an actress/living in my head?

Thanks!

Being raised by a narcissist can lead one to dissociate for survival. It's a matter of degree. Based on what you describe, it does not meet DSM diagnostic criteria, but that doesn't mean you aren't dissociating. And these sorts of things are hard to describe. A professional could talk with you to ascertain more specific aspects of your experience that might align with some diagnosis. But do you need that to take care of yourself now? What would you gain by learning that your experience was dissociation?

I'm very sorry that you had to live that way as a family dynamic, ours were kind of the same, but with elements of great fear. It's scary to live under the thumb of a "psychopath", or one with over the top values and expectations. To me, that's every bit the mental/emotional abuse one doesn't need to suffer from, especially while growing up. It puts misplaced emphasis on the one that's the real sick one.

Please forgive me if I got this wrong. It's the only way that I can relate because we grew up with lots of conditioning....if you don't behave a certain way according to how they think, then reap the consequences. Through all this I've been fragmented. I don't know how it was for you, like did you get yelled at for being "imperfect"? Sounds like it can be traumatic to me, enough to cause some level of dissociation, especially if it was habitual.

When I dissociate, my mind goes blank and dazed and I seperate myself from reality, not on purpose like, but it just happens like shock hits a person. It's more than tuning yourself out because there is a lot of fear involved.

Anyhow, I don't know if that helps any, but if this condition or behavior is affecting your life in anyway, please talk to a counselor or therapist. Good luck!

[LenoraThompson]

Interesting! Thank you both for your responses. It was interesting how both perfectionism (my middle name!) and narcissistic abuse can result in, at the very least, an artificial state that may resemble dissociation. That darn training!

Thanks for you input. I'm gonna' keep thinking about this subject and continue undoing 30+ years of training, one mistake and mess at a time.

[finding_my_way]

it sounds to me more like you probably are starting to see things for what they really are instead of how you grew up having to pretend things were ok when they weren't. it's more a growing process.

[Shaly78]

What are narracisst? How are they around friends co workers? Could be a front may wanna check your ways make sure they the family arent this towards you only. Im not sure what co dependency is either?

[CastlesInTheAir]

I think you're expierencing authenticity. Life is negative and positive.. Not...perfect... So you're confused about those feeling because you're waking up and waking up is never easy

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Originally Posted by LenoraThompson

Hello,

I'm new here and would greatly appreciate insight into a phenomenon I call "living symbolically."

Growing up in a narcissistic/codependent family, we behave as if everything were PERFECT at all times. Happy. Never irritable. No boundaries. No anger.

But, things were far from perfect. Itf's so ingrained, even to this day. It's only at moments of extreme upset that I feel life is real. Sometimes, it's as though I'm seeing myself clearly for the first time. Very difficult to describe.

Is this dissociation or just being an actress/living in my head?

Thanks!

I call it programming (or brain washing). The other called it "conditioning" (sugar coated), which sounds like the victim allowed it to happen on some small level whereas "programming" makes it sound like one had no choice in the matter and was made to endure.

That's what abusive parents do, they program their children through domination in a mean or stern way directly or indirectly. Children have to comply and exist in the conditions provided by the parent because they don't have a choice. The parents crazy behavioral beliefs are imprinted on the minds of the wee one backed up with a wall of memories to support said beliefs which can last long after the parental figure is removed causing great distress in the lives of the now grown children.

I dare to say that this is a basic structure of complex post-traumatic stress disorder (C-PTSD).

But what do I know, I'm just afflicted.

---------------------
Hi..

I've reread your post over and over because I so get it and I think I know what you are asking finally. The part that finally sticks out is at the end where you say...

But, things were far from perfect. Itf's so ingrained, even to this day. It's only at moments of extreme upset that I feel life is real. Sometimes, it's as though I'm seeing myself clearly for the first time. Very difficult to describe.
Is this dissociation or just being an actress/living in my head?

I do this too and I don't know what to call it. It's like a 2 part process where firstly, through mental and emotional exhaustion I do dissociate, then secondly, I start taking stock of life, re-evaluating, retrospecting, examining and re-examining, and re-assessing as in second person. It is a momentary state of dissociation from ones life, but it wouldn't be on the lines of a dissociative disorder.

Everyone dissociates at one time or another, but being a disorder is a whole other animal, so to speak. I hope this helped.

[marmaduke]

Narcissistic parents never 'see' or hear you. They never acknowledge the special unique individual that you are.
You are in effect, whatever they decide you are. They assign you a role in the film they produce and direct.
They might say you are fat and lazy, when you are not.
The truth is irrelevant.

I have disassociated, felt distant and unreal.
There is daydreaming which most people do. Maladaptive daydreaming (frequent drifting off)
Disassociation and depersonilsation.
Ive had them all. I felt quite unreal.

To be wholly unseen, unknown, personality controlled and crushed so effectively you are not even sure you exist.

Narcissism, the gift that keeps on giving.

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