[pumpkin1220]

I joined this group so I could vent about my situation to others, thanks for listening.
I am on my 2nd marraige 5 yrs now, and it has been a tornado of turmoil, from day one and as i sit here contemplating the whole situation I wonder why I continued to stay for so long when it is so wrong for me. That is where I need help on my issues for sure. I still am in denial and thinking about maybe working on it. Please help me decide.
I was married before for 26 yrs, had 2 children and had to leave that due to my husbands insane addiction to porn and sex and simply I jsut didnt love him anymore. That is another story but I inherited some money at just the right time to be able to leave. As this seperation was going on I met my soon to be 2nd husband. I sold him a house and he kept in touch as alot of clients do, but when I started to confide in him one day about my husband he came on to me strong. I felt like " I still got it", it was good for my ego. So I went head on into another relationship without even healing from the first. I see this now. he had just lost a wife to cancer, he had 2 kids younger than mine and it was obvious without a wife his family was falling apart, the house I sold them within 6 months became uninhabitable, due to cat feces in one bedroom they never cleaned up, trash from one end of the yard to the next, I have never seen that much trash in my life, mostly beer bottles, the kids were a mess. But I kept dating him and he kept asking me to marry him and buying me gifts. I kept thinking no way but I did. we bought a house and moved in together within 6 months. It all started then. It started with him drinking, well he always had but I disnt see it, I am naive when it comes to alcoholics, so I didnt comprehend and sometimes still dont understand how someone can change after a few drinks. but he would rage on my son then 18. My son would retaliate. It got ugly. He was kicked out of the house. Police came becuase my son had a friend over etc. I felt powerless and didnt know what to do. My husbands rules didnt seem to apply to his sons, as they were a few yrs younger. Then he would rage at me if I changed the channel wrong on the tv. It was debilitating. I would get over it after a few days everytime. I would forgive. He would apologize. But I started to lose myself. I didnt work as much. DIdnt feel like doing anything anymore. Didnt hang out with anyone. Walked on eggshells. Then I started to realize his youngest son has issues, ie maybe autism or something. I asked him to get him help. That turned into massive explosions. Everytime I would back down. Kept thinking it must be me as he is always saying, I am a *****, my son is trash etc. So this went on he would drink and I would say something that pissed him off and it would be full blown, then it was over the next day. He has a raging alcoholic father. I have never met his family to this day. Then he got an overseas job in Italy, so I thought that would be nice, we went, and his youngest son then 17. Same things there, the drinking, the issues with his son, isolation. I could not wait to get back to CA , so he got a job back in the CA. We came back and have moved again, even further isolating me, and basically we are in the same situation only talking seperation now, he hates my son for no reason other than he is popular, kind, giving. His son has no friends never leaves his room, is selfish, doesnt shower, never friendly and this is what I deal with all the time. I am at the point where I rufuse to live with his son anymore as he is 19 and hasnt changed, he has literally no one except his dad does not get out of his bed at all except to eat, he calls me a f*ing *****, and my husband thinks this is normal. I am done and now I am again 3000 miles away from my kids, no money to get there, he is in process of getting another job and i am going to take what I can to get back to CA. I am angry at myself for being in this situation. All I wanted to do was have a better life after my last husband. I now have no job or security, I will have to live with my daughter to get past this. It is literally like a nightmare.
I grew up abandoned by my father , so I dont know why I would pick emotionally abusive men. Any thoughts?

[Travelinglady]

Frankly, it is hard to know how a person will turn out, so please don't be so hard on yourself.

Have you ever asked him if he would go into marriage counseling with you? It sounds like he has some serious issues. I honestly think you and your son would be better off without him unless some major changes occur, and I don't see much hope for that.

I am glad you have your daughter to live with. I assume you will be seeking a job yourself and will be helping your daughter in some way.

I am sad this relationship turned out so badly.

[Leed]

Bless your heart. I'm so sorry this is happening. This is NOT going to stop UNTIL your husband realizes that he's an alcoholic and stops drinking. But for now, your safety is at stake. These RAGES are going to get more and more serious until one day he's going to hit you or worse. You have GOT to get out of there. This man is dangerous.

I don't believe counseling would help now. The only thing that would work is AA, but he isn't in the frame of mind to even SUGGEST it because everything you say, he goes into a rage! He's going to have to hit bottom before ANYONE can suggest AA.

You need go get out. Do WHATEVER you have to do to leave --- but get OUT. Take what is yours, and 1/2 of the money that you two have and go live with your daughter. I wish you the very best, my friend. Your safety is the utmost concern right now. The rest will fall in place later. God bless and please keep us posted. Hugs, Lee

[avlady]

I agree with Leed, and say Get the heck out of there!!!I've lived that way in an alcoholic's life, not me but my son's father. I know what it is like to walk on eggshells, no way to live. I will pray for you to get the courage and leave and the money you need too.

[Open Eyes]

((pumkin)),

I am very sorry that you have been in such a "disfunctional" situation. I agree with others who advise you to get away from this, and you also owe it to your son. Remember, we teach our children alot by "our" actions, do you want your son to think that he should "stay" in an abusive disfunctional situation? Or, do you want him to stay a nice young man and know to walk away from "toxic" people.

The fact that your own father abandoned you has left you thinking you are somehow undeserving. That is why you are allowing yourself to be treated so badly. What you are not recognizing here is that you were not abandoned because you were unworthy. That abandonment was only due to a man who didn't appreciate or respect "others", it had nothing to do with your worth. You must stop punishing yourself by staying with this man who is clearly a very damaged, angry, ill man, and could be dangerous as well.

Sadly, what happens so often is that when a child is abandoned, they are tramatized really. It's a different kind of trama though, and because they are only children who are designed to "want" approval to ensure survival, they truely feel a deep sense of "guilt".

You need to step away from yourself, and understand the big picture here. And what I mean by that is, understand how human beings are designed to survive and thrive in general. Sigh....this relationship forum is the saddest IMO, because it is showing how so many become so troubled because of the messages they recieved growing up.

Human beings are just animals really. We, like other animals are designed to "imprint" and learn from our parents, how to survive and thrive, even how to pick a mate, what to look for. So the entire time we are growing up with the adults or adult that is caring for us, we imprint without even realizing it. Because we are more intelligent, the imprinting covers more messages then other animals, more meanings, than other animals too. Without even realizing it, children imprint "acceptable" surroundings, and if a child is growing up in a "disfunctional" situation, they adapt and often consider it "normal". Even if a child grows up and sees the "disfunction" without realizing it, they tend to pick a mate that is much like what a parent picked, it feels right somehow, comfortable, survivable, even when it becomes "unhealthy".

What often happens is that what alot of young adults don't realize is that they form some very deep subconscious messages that direct them. They just don't realize it on a conscious level and if there are unhealthy messages there, they just think it is "how they are supposed to be and feel". And what is sad is that this can be seen constantly in this forum alone. Why am I, why can't I, why does he, what is wrong with me, why is he so mean, how can I trust, why does she cheat, why does he cheat, how can I escape this bad situation, I am not good enough for him, yet I feel I deserve better, yet deep inside I feel I don't deserve better too to name a few of the questions that come up in the forum.

What is even sadder to me, is often these confusing questions take place and at the same time there is a child there too. And what is not being realized is that the child that is there is imprinting the confusion and that child too will struggle when it comes time for a "relationship" to take place. The ongoing "ignorance" is astounding because so many tend to think that we are just born to be who we are to be, and that is so far from reality.

Now, look at your own picture again and think about it. You see a very disfuntional man, obviously with some very deeply disturbing subconscious messages, and look at his son, another human being that is so disfunctional he can't even get out of bed, and he too, is full of anger. Why on earth would you subject your own son to that environment? You are teaching him how to be "ok" with disfunction like this.

Now this dangerous very disfunctional man is not the father of your child, what happened to "his" father? He isn't there right? See how you really are at a loss because your own father wasn't there for you to be able to imprint "what a father is supposed to be?". Not only that but you have a deep sense that you don't even deserve to have a "functional good man" in your life either.

It looks like you are "reliving your mother's life". Think about it. The sad part is that it isn't even "your fault", because we designed to imprint so that we can also follow whatever our parents did in "reproduction and breeding". A goose will imprint to a point where they will spend their life traveling the same route as their parents. They will winter in one area, then breed in another area, and it will be so automatic, we look at it and "marvel". And a goose will mate for life, just like we do, only they will fair better, why, because they don't have the complicated human brain that can mess up a "healthy" mating pattern so that their young don't truely know how to mate and thrive in a "healthy way".

With that, you need to see your picture for what it is, and stop self blaming too. Instead you need to walk away from this disfunction and do some deep self examining so you can change the unhealthy patterns you adapted that are not your fault, but definitely need to be changed.

OE

[thebelljar12]

It's easy to get swept away, especially when you were feeling maybe a little old/outdated/unattractive, to have someone shower you with that attention did feel pretty good.

I can empathize with you about moving along probably too quickly. I got engaged to my husband within 6 months of being together. I definitely think we rushed into it. There have been times when I ask myself, why have I stayed so long when I wasn't even sure it was the right decision in the first place.

You are in a more difficult position because of your children. It can be really difficult bringing 2 sets of children together in one relationship. It can cause a lot of bad blood within the family.

I agree with the first reply that you need to at least give him a chance with the couples counseling. I know you are unemployed and depending on your daughter, but that's what family is for. Families constantly either break apart entirely or they make up and change and work out OK.

You really have to decide what is best for your whole family, even if your kids are grown, you have to think about his kids, too. If you have to make an agreement like, what is OK to talk about and what advice is OK to give, etc, that way you won't step on eachothers toes and it will save you some arguments.

I hope this helps.
Lisa

[thebelljar12]

Wow, OE. I have to commend you on some great advice and support. I really enjoyed your reply and I am thinking it through in regards to my family and my life/perspective. Thank you!

[spondiferous]

Pumpkin, welcome to psychcentral. There's nothing I can say here that hasn't already been said - I too believe you need to get out of there, for your own safety and mental health - but I just wanted to let you know that you have my sympathy and support. I'm glad you found us and I hope you get the support you need here.

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by thebelljar12

Wow, OE. I have to commend you on some great advice and support. I really enjoyed your reply and I am thinking it through in regards to my family and my life/perspective. Thank you!

Well, if you think about it, if we take a wild animal away from the wild and raise it, it imprints on us. And because of that, we have to keep these animals in captivity because they simply would not be able to survive in the wild without their natural imprinting.

When we rescue wild animals, we have to be very careful, understand what is natural to their specific imprinting if we are going to do a successful release back into the wild at some point.

We have these jokes about "minni me" right? Well the reality is, it is true, we are no different from other animals/mammels, it is the way we are all designed in order to survive and thrive.

A long time ago, in the 60's I think it was, they did an experiment that spoke volumes really. They took an infant monkey and gave it a mother that was only a metal thing, no fur, no interaction, nothing. And they were careful that when they fed this infant there was no nurturing and warmth.

Then when the monkey reached adulthood, they took it and put it in with other "normal" monkeys, and this poor monkey could not interact and was actually "terrified" and escaped to a corner away from the other normal monkeys. The sad ending was that monkey had to be "removed" from the other monkeys to live out it's days alone.

We don't truely "educate" parents on "how to raise a healthy child", basically we simply allow people to have children and raise their children in whatever way they want to. And I have spent alot of time around families and children. And I am constantly seeing the imprinting. What I am also seeing though is the ignorance too. I have "yet' to have a parent know that a child doesn't reach a single personality until they reach the age of five. I have constantly seen parents order their children around and not think to listen to their children. I have met so many parents who talk about their children in way where they believe their child already knows more than they really know as well.

We are also telling our children to grow up way before they are truely ready as well. We have been pushing sexuality on them way too soon. I often skip this forum, because it is such a sad forum IMO as I mentioned. It saddens me to hear people "self blaming" and "questioning their self worth", when it is really not their fault, and as I mentioned have children in tow unknowingly passing on the confusion.

I met a very intelligent man and yet he so struggled and never married and he never really "bonded" with other men. He said, "I should just be grateful I have food on the table and roof over my head, the rest was up to me, and I messed up somehow".

Wow, this man grew up in a home with a very abusive father and it is no wonder he struggled so as an adult, even though he possessed such intelligence. And it is sad to see how he has blamed himself for what was clearly "never" his fault. This happens "all the time" because we seem to fail to recognize the significance of early childhood imprinting. We are all born with a clean slate for a subconscious, that subconscious mind is slowly filled with "core messages" and "how to's" that we seem to fail to recognize and yet, self blame for when the messages lead us to a disadvantage, very much like the monkey that had no way of knowing that he was not truely being "nurtured".

[pumpkin1220]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

((pumkin)),

I am very sorry that you have been in such a "disfunctional" situation. I agree with others who advise you to get away from this, and you also owe it to your son. Remember, we teach our children alot by "our" actions, do you want your son to think that he should "stay" in an abusive disfunctional situation? Or, do you want him to stay a nice young man and know to walk away from "toxic" people.

The fact that your own father abandoned you has left you thinking you are somehow undeserving. That is why you are allowing yourself to be treated so badly. What you are not recognizing here is that you were not abandoned because you were unworthy. That abandonment was only due to a man who didn't appreciate or respect "others", it had nothing to do with your worth. You must stop punishing yourself by staying with this man who is clearly a very damaged, angry, ill man, and could be dangerous as well.

Sadly, what happens so often is that when a child is abandoned, they are tramatized really. It's a different kind of trama though, and because they are only children who are designed to "want" approval to ensure survival, they truely feel a deep sense of "guilt".

You need to step away from yourself, and understand the big picture here. And what I mean by that is, understand how human beings are designed to survive and thrive in general. Sigh....this relationship forum is the saddest IMO, because it is showing how so many become so troubled because of the messages they recieved growing up.

Human beings are just animals really. We, like other animals are designed to "imprint" and learn from our parents, how to survive and thrive, even how to pick a mate, what to look for. So the entire time we are growing up with the adults or adult that is caring for us, we imprint without even realizing it. Because we are more intelligent, the imprinting covers more messages then other animals, more meanings, than other animals too. Without even realizing it, children imprint "acceptable" surroundings, and if a child is growing up in a "disfunctional" situation, they adapt and often consider it "normal". Even if a child grows up and sees the "disfunction" without realizing it, they tend to pick a mate that is much like what a parent picked, it feels right somehow, comfortable, survivable, even when it becomes "unhealthy".

What often happens is that what alot of young adults don't realize is that they form some very deep subconscious messages that direct them. They just don't realize it on a conscious level and if there are unhealthy messages there, they just think it is "how they are supposed to be and feel". And what is sad is that this can be seen constantly in this forum alone. Why am I, why can't I, why does he, what is wrong with me, why is he so mean, how can I trust, why does she cheat, why does he cheat, how can I escape this bad situation, I am not good enough for him, yet I feel I deserve better, yet deep inside I feel I don't deserve better too to name a few of the questions that come up in the forum.

What is even sadder to me, is often these confusing questions take place and at the same time there is a child there too. And what is not being realized is that the child that is there is imprinting the confusion and that child too will struggle when it comes time for a "relationship" to take place. The ongoing "ignorance" is astounding because so many tend to think that we are just born to be who we are to be, and that is so far from reality.

Now, look at your own picture again and think about it. You see a very disfuntional man, obviously with some very deeply disturbing subconscious messages, and look at his son, another human being that is so disfunctional he can't even get out of bed, and he too, is full of anger. Why on earth would you subject your own son to that environment? You are teaching him how to be "ok" with disfunction like this.

Now this dangerous very disfunctional man is not the father of your child, what happened to "his" father? He isn't there right? See how you really are at a loss because your own father wasn't there for you to be able to imprint "what a father is supposed to be?". Not only that but you have a deep sense that you don't even deserve to have a "functional good man" in your life either.

It looks like you are "reliving your mother's life". Think about it. The sad part is that it isn't even "your fault", because we designed to imprint so that we can also follow whatever our parents did in "reproduction and breeding". A goose will imprint to a point where they will spend their life traveling the same route as their parents. They will winter in one area, then breed in another area, and it will be so automatic, we look at it and "marvel". And a goose will mate for life, just like we do, only they will fair better, why, because they don't have the complicated human brain that can mess up a "healthy" mating pattern so that their young don't truely know how to mate and thrive in a "healthy way".

With that, you need to see your picture for what it is, and stop self blaming too. Instead you need to walk away from this disfunction and do some deep self examining so you can change the unhealthy patterns you adapted that are not your fault, but definitely need to be changed.

OE

thank you, I have been wanting to delve into the relationship between not having a father to who I am now, I do believe that is where I need to start to heal, all the words you are saying, get out, you are worthy are easier to say than to do honestly, sometimes i feel absolutely frozen unable to move forward, so it is not easy. How does one begin to change is the question? And what does a normal marraige look like? LOL thanks for your help I feel better to know there are people that care, somehow I sometimes feel so alone in this world with not a soul that cares.

[pumpkin1220]

Originally Posted by PAYNE1

Frankly, it is hard to know how a person will turn out, so please don't be so hard on yourself.

Have you ever asked him if he would go into marriage counseling with you? It sounds like he has some serious issues. I honestly think you and your son would be better off without him unless some major changes occur, and I don't see much hope for that.

I am glad you have your daughter to live with. I assume you will be seeking a job yourself and will be helping your daughter in some way.

I am sad this relationship turned out so badly.

Yes I have tried the therapy route, he says I am the crazy one not him. LOL Maybe I am. Well I do have my issues. Lately he seems more open to therapy as I think he sees I am gearing to leave.

[pumpkin1220]

Originally Posted by Leed

Bless your heart. I'm so sorry this is happening. This is NOT going to stop UNTIL your husband realizes that he's an alcoholic and stops drinking. But for now, your safety is at stake. These RAGES are going to get more and more serious until one day he's going to hit you or worse. You have GOT to get out of there. This man is dangerous.

I don't believe counseling would help now. The only thing that would work is AA, but he isn't in the frame of mind to even SUGGEST it because everything you say, he goes into a rage! He's going to have to hit bottom before ANYONE can suggest AA.

You need go get out. Do WHATEVER you have to do to leave --- but get OUT. Take what is yours, and 1/2 of the money that you two have and go live with your daughter. I wish you the very best, my friend. Your safety is the utmost concern right now. The rest will fall in place later. God bless and please keep us posted. Hugs, Lee

thank you for the kind words, I need a hug.

[pumpkin1220]

Originally Posted by avlady

I agree with Leed, and say Get the heck out of there!!!I've lived that way in an alcoholic's life, not me but my son's father. I know what it is like to walk on eggshells, no way to live. I will pray for you to get the courage and leave and the money you need too.

thank you !

[pumpkin1220]

Originally Posted by thebelljar12

Wow, OE. I have to commend you on some great advice and support. I really enjoyed your reply and I am thinking it through in regards to my family and my life/perspective. Thank you!

I agree with you, OE can be my counsler coach any day

[Open Eyes]

"And what does a normal marraige look like?" quote pumpkin

That is a question that you and many others are constantly asking pumpkin, as I mentioned this forum is the busiest forum on the site.

But if you think about the experiment I talked about, the volumes of what that experiment was saying. If we don't see it, if we don't imprint it, we don't know what it is suppose to be like. It isn't your fault because you didn't get to see it, your father left, most likely because "he" didn't know what to do either. So many truely don't realize what kind of "baggage" they carry because of what they didn't get to see growing up. Remember, we are born with a clean slate for a subconscious, so just like that monkey, if we don't have it, we "do" feel alone, and the less we have, the harder it can be to connect.

While a marriage is work, it certainly should not be the amount of work you are discribing, and someone should truely not fear their mate as you are discribing.
And just because your father abandoned you, that had no bearing on your worth at all. However so many children "do" feel it is because "they" are not worthy somehow.

Human beings on the one hand are too smart for their own good because they tend to "self blame" for things they should not self blame for. However on the other hand, human beings are smart enough to learn how to do things "inspite of". The problem is, the self blaming can get in the way, simply because they didn't get healthy imprinting.

Yes, you need to examine your "negetive imprinting" and stop the self blaming pattern. And don't think you are alone with that challenge either, just sit back and see how busy this forum is, and how many people, including nonmembers are reading it. It's a damn epedemic, so it isn't just you struggling.

Human beings truely need a pattern just like all other mammels, to follow. When there is a pattern offered, for all mammels, including human beings, things go well and "thriving" takes place.

We have been practicing "throw away relationships" and the divorce rate has been climbing for the past 30 years. And because of that, there has been an increase in people who struggle with relationships, as well as other things.

And the other thing that has caused alot of harm is the generation where children were to be seen and "not heard", that passed down alot of crap too.

You are not alone, really, so stop the self blaming and open yourself up to "learning".
We have this marvelous brain you know, very capable of learning and it does just that "all our lives".

OE