I moved this topic from a different category, as per suggestion. Hopefully I get more responses here.

So my problem is this:
I very, VERY often wish I had been born a female. A few years ago I actually broke down crying to my mom, telling her I wish I could've been her Natalie. That was the name my parents had picked out if I HAD been a girl.
I can't really pin point it, but I started entertaining the thought of 'what if' around 13 or so. Maybe sooner, I'm not entirely sure.

I started dabbling in cross dressing when I was about 19 years old. My (then) wife caught me a couple times in her clothes and we got to talking and she was actually the first person that I came out to. So yes, I'm gay. We divorced soon after that but are actually still pretty good friends, all things considering. Occasionally we chat on the phone about guys and whatnot.
Now, 10 years later, I don't even own guys clothes besides a single pair of jeans and a couple of t-shirts to do dirtier work around the house. That's IT. I do my makeup, shave body hair, I have a feminine haircut (although it's very punk/goth, so it's not SUPER feminine), have girly jewelry and body piercings, etc. etc. Just like the hair, my 'look' is very alternative. So I don't really portray the girly girl image so much as a dark, broody one. (although I DO love pink). If you were to walk into my room, you would never guess a guy slept there.

Sometimes when I go out to bars and clubs with my friend, I sometimes get mistaken for a girl. Or the question at least comes up. haha. People apologize, but I take it as a compliment.

The thing is, I'm NOT a girl. There is no amount of makeup or clothing or surgery (not that I've had any) that will change that. There isn't anything that I can do about that. It's a constant source of low grade depression for me. nothing that sends me into a bad slump, but more of a constant, gnawing, downer.

The biggest obstacle to me in this matter, is finding men that are interested. Not 'one night stand' interested. I mean legitimately interested.
For starters, I don't like flamboyant men. This is probably due to that I want to fill what I perceive as the feminine role in the relationship.

Secondly, I can't top. I didn't say won't. I said can't. It's a total turn off. The thought of me being a Top to another man is completely gross to me.
I am not just unable/unwilling to top. I generally just don't like my junk in front being paid any attention to whatsoever. I'd rather it be treated as if it weren't there. I don't even like to have an orgasm during sex (as it punctuates the fact that I have a penis). This is almost always an issue with people that I have hooked up with in the past. Understandably so. I mean, why would a gay/bi man want to engage in sex with another man without access to one of the more obvious parts of interest?

All this not withstanding, I don't ever seem to be able to attract anyone that is willing to be seen with me openly. I always seem to be a dirty little secret that gets called upon as a booty call. To this day, I have been intimate with about 17 men and not one of them ever has been open about it, much less taken me seriously.

I stopped attempting to date about two years ago. I stopped having sex soon after. I would get horribly depressed in the wake of casual sex, sometimes as soon as I was dropped back off at my home.

I DO have sexual desires,they haven't gone away. They just go unrequited. I just feel like I have no outlet to find anyone. I know I can never be a woman, and it saddens me. However, what saddens me more is that I don't think that I will ever be able to find someone that will be able to at least treat me as if I were.

I've gone out to the local gay bars to try and meet people to no avail. There aren't a whole lot of them, and the ones that are here are very run down and raunchy. Either that, or they are very trendy and 'pop' with the typical club music. This doesn't really draw the crowd I care to mingle with. I'm not into the techno/hip-hop scene. To be honest, a bar or club is a terrible place for me to meet people because I don't even really drink or party, either. So I'd be looking in a crowd of people with clashing interests. However, a 'gay bar' seems the only kind of venue designated towards that particular demographic.

I've tried just about every dating site out there. free sites. paid sites. I don't know how much money I've tossed away in the process. There never seems to even really be that many people in my area to begin with, much less that find an interest in me. If I ever DO get responses, it only seems to be from people who want discreet encounters. In my personal opinion, dating sites seem to be more of a scam and hunting ground for one-nighters than anything else. It's gotten to the point where even looking at dating site ads will start to make me feel upset and I don't consider them a feasible option any longer.

I don't know what I should do about this. I'm not very well equipped with coping skills (or so I'm told). I wish so badly, and so often that I was a woman. Although I accept that I can't be, it is still such a constant burden to have weighing on me all the time.
Is there any advice anyone has as to what I could to about trying to start a relationship? Or at least on how/where to find people that might have an interest? Or am I doomed to be alone?

wow... so, three days, 78 views, and no responses. Thanks for the support guys.

[Rand.]

Hi Cannibalcutie. I'm sorry no one has responded yet. I don't always come to this site or part of the site so I only just read this. I have to say, I really get where you're coming from, at least on part of it. I always felt I should have been born a male but was assigned female. I can never be a "real" male, and that is a depressing thought to me too. I never got to grow up as a boy or a young man. There are just certain things I'll never have because of it. You know what I mean I'm sure, but just the other way around. There are some things you can get for it, though, but it's a hard road for anyone who travels it. For me, I've decided I want to take the plunge and transition to male, but that's not for everyone. But for me, it's worth it. It sounds like you've found something that kinda works for you. I'm not sure if I have much advice for you relationship wise. It sounds like a hard situation to be in. Maybe the Sexual and Gender Issues section might be more active and they might have something that would help you out. Can I ask if you see a T? They can certainly be really helpful, I know.

[Grey Matter]

Firstly, I don't think it's right to get annoyed when a post goes without a response for a few days. It happens. I do my best to come to this section of the website weekly, but I haven't had internet access.

That being said, do you feel as though you are female? Or do you feel between both? There is a word for nearly every gender identification, as it is a spectrum. And you're certainly not alone in this. I cannot say I understand completely. I am a genderqueer person (I dress androgynous. Many people do not know if I am male or female, and I am more comfortable that way. Mentally, I am neither) so I (and this isn't for EVERY GQ person some DO feel as you're feeling) can't say I have gone through the same experiences, or pains as you have.

Have you tried looking online for support groups within the LGBTQ* community? That can be your first step to really gaining a solid foundation for yourself.

[Bill3]

It sounds like your view is that gender reassignment could not actually make you a girl. Still, another way to look at it, a way that may or may not work for you, is to observe that it could make you closer to a girl life than what you have now. What is your thinking about the possibility of gender reassignment?

Originally Posted by Adespota

Hi Cannibalcutie. I'm sorry no one has responded yet. I don't always come to this site or part of the site so I only just read this. I have to say, I really get where you're coming from, at least on part of it. I always felt I should have been born a male but was assigned female. I can never be a "real" male, and that is a depressing thought to me too. I never got to grow up as a boy or a young man. There are just certain things I'll never have because of it. You know what I mean I'm sure, but just the other way around. There are some things you can get for it, though, but it's a hard road for anyone who travels it. For me, I've decided I want to take the plunge and transition to male, but that's not for everyone. But for me, it's worth it. It sounds like you've found something that kinda works for you. I'm not sure if I have much advice for you relationship wise. It sounds like a hard situation to be in. Maybe the Sexual and Gender Issues section might be more active and they might have something that would help you out. Can I ask if you see a T? They can certainly be really helpful, I know.

It's funny that you bring up the Sexual and Gender Issues section... I got no real responses there, either. they referred me over here.
I'm gonna assume by 'T' that you means a therapist. No, I am not seeing a therapist. I've had quite few in past years, mostly over depression, anxiety, and self harm issues. I have brought up my sexual views before, I just don't really get a whole lot out of it. Even if I wanted to see one again, I don't really have the time or money to do so. I'm a p/t student with a p/t job.

Originally Posted by Grey Matter

Firstly, I don't think it's right to get annoyed when a post goes without a response for a few days. It happens. I do my best to come to this section of the website weekly, but I haven't had internet access.

It's not so much annoyed, as it is that I was saddened. I've been asking for advice on this in various places (not just this website) and am often met with the same thing. I'm not blaming the thread ppl... it's just a frustration that has been very long lived. Sorry if I came off as condescending.

Originally Posted by Grey Matter

That being said, do you feel as though you are female? Or do you feel between both?

Have you ever had that female friend that refuses to be a priss? The one that is still feminine, but more of the a.ss kikin', assertive woman rather than the traditionally passive and acquiescent type? I guess that's how I feel. I think it throws a lot of people off. A lot of it I think has to do with the metal/goth/punk subcultures that I identify with. Femininity has a rebellion here that I can relate to. Regardless of the obscurity of how I identify, I have a small handful of friends and acquaintances that repeatedly tell me, "you're such a girl!" due to my mannerisms or reactions to certain situations. But in truth, I think I only have two friends that give a legitimate effort to try and treat me that way. I think I used to fluctuate between feeling male or female, but as the years have gone on I think I have settled more comfortably into my femininity. I think I have reached the point where the only thing left as a barrier is my physical self, and that is what irks me.

Originally Posted by Grey Matter

There is a word for nearly every gender identification, as it is a spectrum. And you're certainly not alone in this. I cannot say I understand completely. I am a genderqueer person (I dress androgynous. Many people do not know if I am male or female, and I am more comfortable that way. Mentally, I am neither) so I (and this isn't for EVERY GQ person some DO feel as you're feeling) can't say I have gone through the same experiences, or pains as you have.

Yeah, I've heard a lot of different categorizations. Genderqueer, genderfluid, heteroflexible, pansexual... etc. I understand that this helps a lot of people to identify themselves. Me, personally, I'm not too concerned over finding a name to my sexual status.I know who I am, I know what I want, and I know how I want it. It is the attainment of all that that is my problem. Call it what you will, it doesn't make much of a difference to me.

Originally Posted by Grey Matter

Have you tried looking online for support groups within the LGBTQ* community? That can be your first step to really gaining a solid foundation for yourself.

I have, a bit. I only really seem to get results for dating sites or different types of porn sites. I've tried finding local groups and despite that this is a college town and this state has legalized gay marriage, I really haven't come across much. However, I also don't really know how or where to look. Besides using the internet as a starting point i.e. search engines, I don't really know how or where to look for these things.

Originally Posted by Bill3

It sounds like your view is that gender reassignment could not actually make you a girl. Still, another way to look at it, a way that may or may not work for you, is to observe that it could make you closer to a girl life than what you have now. What is your thinking about the possibility of gender reassignment?

Gender reassignment is surgery and hormones, right? The hormones I wouldn't have so much an issue with. I've thought about it as a good way to make myself more feminized. But I have been warned by people that have gone through it. I've been told it can really mess with your head and that there are other health risks involved.
As far as surgery, It just isn't real enough for me to even consider it (if just on an aesthetic basis). I've seen the vaginoplasty work done on high end porn stars, and you can still tell it's fake. I figure that if anyone had the money to get top of the line work, it would be them and it just wouldn't be real enough for me to consider. It just doesn't look quite right, you know? Although the though of having things being permanently tucked away down there is very appealing, I'm kind of a 'do it right, or not at all' type of person. Unless they have come up with a way to transplant the whole enchilada >uterus, tubes, ovaries, vaginal canal, labia, clitoris< I'm not down for it. This is of course with total disregard to finances. Like I have stated earlier in this post, I'm a p/t student. I also have a p/t job. Even if I wanted to, surgeries, hormone therapy, and therapists aren't in the budget.

[Rand.]

Hmmm yeah I see. I'm going to assume that moving to a big city isn't much of an option. I live in a larger city and have found that alternative culture is easier to find around here. People also tend to be more "tolerant", though I prefer the word accepting. It depends on the city of course, but just in general I think that's what you might find. It sounds like there isn't much where you're at, and that would make things much much more difficult for you. I'm sorry I wish I could give you some good advice or something at least You said you've asked in many different places without much luck. I wouldn't know either how or where to search either I'm afraid in the search engine.

Originally Posted by Adespota

Hmmm yeah I see. I'm going to assume that moving to a big city isn't much of an option. I live in a larger city and have found that alternative culture is easier to find around here. People also tend to be more "tolerant", though I prefer the word accepting. It depends on the city of course, but just in general I think that's what you might find. It sounds like there isn't much where you're at, and that would make things much much more difficult for you. I'm sorry I wish I could give you some good advice or something at least You said you've asked in many different places without much luck. I wouldn't know either how or where to search either I'm afraid in the search engine.

No, it isn't much of an option. I don't really know anyone anywhere else. I don't think I could manage a move to a bigger city. I'd probably wind up in a worse situation than I am now, financially. As it is, the only reason I make due is because my roommates help me out.
A lot of people (like the other students or just people I make small talk with) ask me where I'm from because they don't think I'm from the area. People tell me I should go to New York or L.A. I've been to southern California, and I don't like it there. Too many hippies, and potheads, and waaay too much sun. Never been to New York, but they have a terrible unemployment rate and high crime rate as does L.A.. That's not very appealing to me. It doesn't really matter where, though. I'm not in a position to consider moving ANYwhere. I can barely support myself with people helping me along.

Hello cutie666: I just read your post. I think this forum is still fairly new & there's not allot of activity here yet. I've posted here once I think. That's about it. I don't know if I really have much of anything to offer either, but I'm moved to make an attempt.

You should know that I'm an old man. And I've always lived a heterosexual male lifestyle. For most of my life it never really occurred to me that there was any alternative. But also I have always felt that I should have been / wanted to be female. My earliest memories as a child involve wearing my mother's clothes (I never had any sisters so sisters' clothes weren't an option.) For about as long as I've felt female inside, I've also struggled with major depression, generalized anxiety disorder, & self-harm issues. I've also been actively suicidal. (I still am.) I kept my trans-ness a closely guarded secret until quite recently.

For many years, I hoped that as I aged all of this would gradually dissipate. But, in fact, over the past few years it has gotten worse, not better. And I know a few other men my age who seem to feel the same. If you're trans, you're trans for life. It doesn't go away. And as you age & your male body begins to age, you reach a point where this deterioration seems to inflame old trans feelings. I'm in the grip of this now.

I sense that you & I have something in common in that the idea of hormones & surgery doesn't really excite you that much. I have said a number of times that I always wanted the full female experience and so the idea of transition seemed like something of a consolation prize. Although, I would have to say that, with hindsight, knowing the havoc that this has caused in my life, if I had the chance to do it over, I would seriously consider transitioning.

So, with all of this as groundwork, I would say that it appears you're still young. If you really are transsexual, you'll be dealing with this for life. It's not going away. Of course not every trans person goes all the way through FFS & GRS surgery. Each person has to decide how much is enough. If dressing in women's clothing is enough for you, at least for now, that's fine. As time goes by, if you find that you want or need more then you can go further. Personally I have found that nothing is ever enough. If I do one thing, it just inflames my desire to do the next & so I'm right back where I started from emotionally. But that's just me. I'm afraid I don't have much to suggest in the way of relationships. I think most people meet as a result of being involved in common activities. So I would think that what one might want to do is to become active in organizations or activities that are likely to attract the type of persons you'd like to meet. This may have to be on-line at this point, but that's okay. Many people do meet initially on-line today it seems like.

Anyway, I don't know if any of this is of any consequence. But, if it is, please feel free to message me. I've had a lifetime of struggling with trans issues so I know what it's about.