[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by rouge198

You misread the manual,it was eliminated. You're just as unique as everyone else. Good day!

I didn't misread anything, neither did my treatment team that ****ing diagnosed me with the condition with said current DSM in the first place.

Again, you read wrong. If you're being treated and insurance is covering it, it isn't for NPD because that's not an MI. NPD was recommended for deletion and eliminated. Psychologists sometimes get ahead of themselves and wind up creating pseudo pathological conditions. Personality disorders aren't debilitating mental illnesses. They may warrant treatment and should be respected but they are disorders not illnesses.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by rouge198

Again, you read wrong. If you're being treated and insurance is covering it, it isn't for NPD because that's not an MI. NPD was recommended for deletion and eliminated. Psychologists sometimes get ahead of themselves and wind up creating pseudo pathological conditions. Personality disorders aren't debilitating mental illnesses.

I'm in treatment for schizophrenia/schizoaffective disorder for your information. If it was eliminated I must need to get my eyes checked as my DSM-5 is RIGHT HERE and guess what? NPD is right there!

Your insurance is covering treatment for the illnes, not the personality defect.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by rouge198

Your insurance is covering treatment for the illnes, not the personality defect.

I never said my insurance was covering my personality. I just said that I'm diagnosed with NPD. My insurance covers my schizophrenia/schizoaffective disorder.

[Atypical_Disaster]

sending privately...

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by rouge198

You misread the manual,it was eliminated. You're just as unique as everyone else. Good day!

no it was not eliminated here is a link that explains the DSM 5 diagnostic criteria for this....

Narcissistic personality disorder Symptoms - Mayo Clinic

you can also type in the search bar DSM 5 table of contents and it will bring up a page of everything that is included in the presently being used DSM 5.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

no it was not eliminated here is a link that explains the DSM 5 diagnostic criteria for this....

Narcissistic personality disorder Symptoms - Mayo Clinic

you can also type in the search bar DSM 5 table of contents and it will bring up a page of everything that is included in the presently being used DSM 5.

Thank you for posting. I have a copy of the DSM-5 myself so needless to say I am aware that personality disorders are still in there.

[here today]

I wonder if anyone else would be interested in exploring further something Copperstar wrote earlier:

Originally Posted by CopperStar

I think that a lot of what gets attributed to narcissism isn't actually very relevant.

At its core, narcissism is about having a deep, intense fear of shame over one's perceived flaws, which get pushed into the subconscious and replaced by a false sense of self. In other words it's a disorder of delusion that is based on fear and shame.

That core issue could manifest in a lot of different ways, with a wide variety of potential secondary symptoms and coping behaviors.

I get the impression that most "articles" on NPD out there are simply hyper-focusing on very malignant and sadistic people, traits that may or may not be a part of narcissism.

Someone with PTSD could also end up coping by being very manipulative and hostile, but we don't see articles on "How to Spot PTSD" that include, "They freak out and smash your dishes, then say it was your fault for triggering them." While some people with PTSD might do something like that, obviously that's not behavior associated with PTSD itself. Most people have an easy time understanding that.

It seems to me like in current popular discussions and media, “narcissists” are considered second-class citizens, not real people. I can think of a bunch of reasons why some writers and others might want to do that, some of the reasons maybe unconscious. “Let’s bring the narcissist down to size”, for instance. Nevertheless, it still seems to me that when you see the word “narcissist” it’s generally not with the understanding “human being with NPD”.

I have certain social inadequacies BECAUSE OF my personality disorder. That’s not an excuse or avoidance of accountability, in the sense that if what I have done has had certain effects, then those are the effects. But it does mean that sometimes I’m not response-able, I really do not understand how what I am doing, what I feel at the time is the “right” thing to do, is likely to affect or be perceived by another, how it is likely to seem "wrong" to them. I can understand if people without a PD cannot empathize with that, because it’s a type of experience that they have not had, just as I sometimes cannot empathize with them.

You would think that clinicians would have a better understanding that people with personality disorders are PEOPLE with personality disorders, but sometimes they don’t. Again, I can think of a bunch of reasons why they may not, but being treated like an “object”, even if you’re a person who tends to treat others that way, is not likely to help us to turn ourselves around. And when the “experts” write articles from the standpoint that people with PD’s aren’t really people, or people who count, then it’s understandable if the public generally picks up that attitude.

Anybody else had that experience?

[hazn]

Originally Posted by here today

I wonder if anyone else would be interested in exploring further something Copperstar wrote earlier:


It seems to me like in current popular discussions and media, “narcissists” are considered second-class citizens, not real people. I can think of a bunch of reasons why some writers and others might want to do that, some of the reasons maybe unconscious. “Let’s bring the narcissist down to size”, for instance. Nevertheless, it still seems to me that when you see the word “narcissist” it’s generally not with the understanding “human being with NPD”.

I have certain social inadequacies BECAUSE OF my personality disorder. That’s not an excuse or avoidance of accountability, in the sense that if what I have done has had certain effects, then those are the effects. But it does mean that sometimes I’m not response-able, I really do not understand how what I am doing, what I feel at the time is the “right” thing to do, is likely to affect or be perceived by another, how it is likely to seem "wrong" to them. I can understand if people without a PD cannot empathize with that, because it’s a type of experience that they have not had, just as I sometimes cannot empathize with them.

You would think that clinicians would have a better understanding that people with personality disorders are PEOPLE with personality disorders, but sometimes they don’t. Again, I can think of a bunch of reasons why they may not, but being treated like an “object”, even if you’re a person who tends to treat others that way, is not likely to help us to turn ourselves around. And when the “experts” write articles from the standpoint that people with PD’s aren’t really people, or people who count, then it’s understandable if the public generally picks up that attitude.

Anybody else had that experience?

In your opinion, then, how should the general population view narcissists? Yes, I can see how people can go to extremes in how they perceive people with NPD. Having said that, I imagine that's because they've either suffered at the hands of a narcissist, or know someone who has. This can be quite traumatising for some. I can and do feel some level of empathy for narcissist, but at the same time I know what they're capable of. I think people feel the need to protect themselves from such people, and I can understand that. It seems like the narcissist has nothing to lose, whilst the victim has a lot to lose.

But the truth is, someone else's personality disorder isn't my problem. I don't need to figure out why someone with NPD behaves a certain way. In any case, it doesn't make a difference. So in that sense, I guess I'd treat someone with NPD the same way I'd treat someone without NPD... based on their actions.

[SnowyOwl1]

As a Non who has learned a bit about NPD, I wouldn't say that I or the general public treat those with NPD as non-humans, but I would definitely agree that we treat them with distrust. If I meet peers in a social situation I will interact with them in a genial way, telling stories from my past, making jokes. If I encounter a person in the same atmosphere who, for whatever reason, I know has NPD, or who is clearly displaying some of the major signs, then I won't interact with them in the same way as everyone else. I do not want to exchange stories from my past with someone with NPD because he or she very well might use that knowledge to hurt me later. I do not want to joke with someone with NPD because my words very well might end up twisted into something unrecognizable and thrown back at me or used behind my back.

So yes... self-protection, distrust, and honestly... fear. Most people I interact with on a daily basis work within the same general social rules as I do, but people with NPD do not. I am afraid of them because I cannot count on them to act within the normal social guidelines, and they very well might end up hurting me.

You mention clinicians, and I also think clinicians should be able to interact better with people with NPD. They are trained to handle those interactions. I am not.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Narcissists have a lot to lose, I speak from experience. I know it can look like I'm just fine and dandy all the time, but it is not so. I have plenty to lose, and by "plenty" I mean everything.

[MissFiona]

I think I always used to veer towards NPD males because I had an NPD Mother but a BPD Father. So in adult life in relationships I was wanting to magically transform the NPD 'father figure' into a BPD 'mummy figure' to find the missing elements from my childhood. So once I worked out that I was dating my own Mother and getting confused why they weren't like my BPD Father I would set about tearing them down into pieces until they put themselves back together the way I wanted them to be. If they failed it was like my parents failing me all over again on a subconscious level. It's so easy to blame others and NPD's seem to cop the worst rap but you can learn heaps about yourself once you identify who the NPD or any PD is being used as a substitute for.

[here today]

Originally Posted by hazn

In your opinion, then, how should the general population view narcissists? Yes, I can see how people can go to extremes in how they perceive people with NPD. Having said that, I imagine that's because they've either suffered at the hands of a narcissist, or know someone who has. This can be quite traumatising for some. I can and do feel some level of empathy for narcissist, but at the same time I know what they're capable of. I think people feel the need to protect themselves from such people, and I can understand that. It seems like the narcissist has nothing to lose, whilst the victim has a lot to lose.

But the truth is, someone else's personality disorder isn't my problem. I don't need to figure out why someone with NPD behaves a certain way. In any case, it doesn't make a difference. So in that sense, I guess I'd treat someone with NPD the same way I'd treat someone without NPD... based on their actions.

Thanks for your post. I really don’t know what to suggest about how the general population should view narcissists. I guess that’s up to every individual. Which is why the scary articles scare me, even though I don’t have NPD. Every person with NPD is an individual, too. Some of what I read reminds me of the “Red Scare” about communists in the 1950’s. Some people accused of being communists were dangerous, many were not.

[here today]

Originally Posted by SnowyOwl1

As a Non who has learned a bit about NPD, I wouldn't say that I or the general public treat those with NPD as non-humans, but I would definitely agree that we treat them with distrust. If I meet peers in a social situation I will interact with them in a genial way, telling stories from my past, making jokes. If I encounter a person in the same atmosphere who, for whatever reason, I know has NPD, or who is clearly displaying some of the major signs, then I won't interact with them in the same way as everyone else. I do not want to exchange stories from my past with someone with NPD because he or she very well might use that knowledge to hurt me later. I do not want to joke with someone with NPD because my words very well might end up twisted into something unrecognizable and thrown back at me or used behind my back.

So yes... self-protection, distrust, and honestly... fear. Most people I interact with on a daily basis work within the same general social rules as I do, but people with NPD do not. I am afraid of them because I cannot count on them to act within the normal social guidelines, and they very well might end up hurting me.

You mention clinicians, and I also think clinicians should be able to interact better with people with NPD. They are trained to handle those interactions. I am not.

Thanks for your honest, thoughtful post.

[hazn]

Welcome to PC, and great first post... hope you'll stick around

[MissFiona]

So yes... self-protection, distrust, and honestly... fear. Most people I interact with on a daily basis work within the same general social rules as I do, but people with NPD do not. I am afraid of them because I cannot count on them to act within the normal social guidelines, and they very well might end up hurting me.

Yikes feeling scared of anyone is a handing that person a free power trip ticket if they become aware of your feelings. Personally, I don't think it can be isolated to only NPD's. As long as you can count on yourself to act within the normal social guidelines without being afraid that an NPD is going to undermine you in some way, that's the part of yourself you need to explore.

[hazn]

Originally Posted by MissFiona

Yikes feeling scared of anyone is a handing that person a free power trip ticket if they become aware of your feelings. Personally, I don't think it can be isolated to only NPD's. As long as you can count on yourself to act within the normal social guidelines without being afraid that an NPD is going to undermine you in some way, that's the part of yourself you need to explore.

When a person reaches that point, they honestly couldn't give a crap about what the narcissist thinks. If you know enough about narcissism and see enough of the red flags... you'll quietly disappear without saying a word. The narcissist won't care, and neither will you.

I think most healthy people simply won't entertain a relationship with someone who displays high levels of narcissism. At least not in any meaningful way. I mean, why would they? ...is it wrong for me to say that? I don't know ...but it sounds like it would make for an interesting discussion.

[MissFiona]

Originally Posted by hazn

When a person reaches that point, they honestly couldn't give a crap about what the narcissist thinks. If you know enough about narcissism and see enough of the red flags... you'll quietly disappear without saying a word. The narcissist won't care, and neither will you.

I think most healthy people simply won't entertain a relationship with someone who displays high levels of narcissism. At least not in any meaningful way. I mean, why would they? ...is it wrong for me to say that? I don't know ...but it sounds like it would make for an interesting discussion.

Yes I think you're right in saying that most healthy people wouldn't even think twice about a relationship with a person displaying a high degree of N traits or even think twice about them other than to avoid them or giggle perhaps when I recognise some aspects of myself that I always thought was one of my strengths but now seems juvenile. I've actually found the more balanced I've become in my thoughts about myself and what is important to me, now I've been dealing with my core issue, of low self worth, the less N traited people I've encountered. I think this is mainly because I don't need the same level of attention that I used to or the same types of distractions so I'm not drawn to the same places or distractions and can happily stay at home and self reflect without wasting energy on getting attention or winning every situation. So, is narcissistic behaviour contagious if you have that inner core issue of low self worth. For myself, I found it definately was like a virus that got into my brain. And that NPD partners wanted it to stay right there thank you very much. Don't you move a muscle in your brain! That's how I view it, in hindsight.

I wouldn't say I'm no longer NPD/BPD but I would say I'm a far more self aware and better functioning one, and when I say one I mean I'm able to incorporate the better parts of both NPD and BPD into one package. Because there are some amazing qualities in every PD.

[leomama]

That's interesting. You've been diagnosed with both disorders?

[MissFiona]

Originally Posted by leomama

That's interesting. You've been diagnosed with both disorders?

I've been diagnosed with NPD BPD Schizophrenia Stress Adjustment Disorder depending on what mood I was in at the time of the diagnosis LOL

So I thought this is crazy, why am I not getting the same diagnosis each time. I'm not leaving my mental health in the hands of these people who can't make their minds up I will sort myself out and I went cold turkey for a year not speaking to anyone but re-parenting myself into the type of person I wish I had been in the first place.

The first few months I spent crawling on the floor, rocking back and forth on my heels, sleeping days on end and painting the inside of my house from top to bottom, in agony and ecstasy at the withdrawal of all external supply.

[hazn]

It's always very interesting to hear from people who have NPD and are self-aware. I hope to see more posts from you You know, it would be awesome if you were to start a new thread and share your story. Just a suggestion, if you're ever bored.

[Atypical_Disaster]

It's good to see more self-aware Narcissists out there, refreshing posts for me to read this morning thank you all. This has become a very interesting discussion!

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by hazn

When a person reaches that point, they honestly couldn't give a crap about what the narcissist thinks. If you know enough about narcissism and see enough of the red flags... you'll quietly disappear without saying a word. The narcissist won't care, and neither will you.

I think most healthy people simply won't entertain a relationship with someone who displays high levels of narcissism. At least not in any meaningful way. I mean, why would they? ...is it wrong for me to say that? I don't know ...but it sounds like it would make for an interesting discussion.

For the most part this is true, as evidenced by the fact that most of my friendships and all of my romantic relationships have been with very unhealthy people. But I will say that I do have friendships in the here and now that are with healthy people, and they know how to counter my less than stellar behavior. Such people are rare, but they do exist. And I will say that I do respect a person instantly if they can see through me and call me on something I'm doing that they find distasteful without resorting to insulting me.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by SnowyOwl1

As a Non who has learned a bit about NPD, I wouldn't say that I or the general public treat those with NPD as non-humans, but I would definitely agree that we treat them with distrust. If I meet peers in a social situation I will interact with them in a genial way, telling stories from my past, making jokes. If I encounter a person in the same atmosphere who, for whatever reason, I know has NPD, or who is clearly displaying some of the major signs, then I won't interact with them in the same way as everyone else. I do not want to exchange stories from my past with someone with NPD because he or she very well might use that knowledge to hurt me later. I do not want to joke with someone with NPD because my words very well might end up twisted into something unrecognizable and thrown back at me or used behind my back.

So yes... self-protection, distrust, and honestly... fear. Most people I interact with on a daily basis work within the same general social rules as I do, but people with NPD do not. I am afraid of them because I cannot count on them to act within the normal social guidelines, and they very well might end up hurting me.

You mention clinicians, and I also think clinicians should be able to interact better with people with NPD. They are trained to handle those interactions. I am not.

The distrust and taking logical measures to protect yourself is only wise. This is a very intelligent post, welcome to Psych Central!