Life

I have certainly learned a lot from you and Aytpical. Thanks for that opportunity. I had the “reverse”, covered up narcissism. Doesn’t matter a lot about labels, with all the therapy and self-examination I have done I know how mine, as least, works or worked.

I agree with vonmoxie, I appreciate what you write and where you are coming from. Your words frequently articulate something inside of me that I’m not able to articulate very well myself. They give me some things to think about and even feel, things that are usually “cut off” from my conscious experience but still there.

I wrote some time ago that I thought the most famous “narcissist” on the internet in the past was someone who kind of biased things. It seemed to me that he was just feeding back what “the world” expected of narcissists. How “the world” describes them.

That's not what I hear from you.

Like everything else, no two are alike. I suspect you are talking of Sam I Am? Well as always I only try and write of my own perspective. Of course as all humans I am subject to also including by others into my own thoughts. I suppose like an instruction table. I myself
Think we all have our own way of doing and living that do share many similarities yet we are still so different. It's pretty simple to discuss what the others think but truths are hidden in our own minds. My truths may not reflect another's but all the same they are my own. The expectancy of who we are listed by the so many "others" is too easy to cut and paste. I assume most would rather see something new. Find new ways to help in the process so many few of us get to do. To learn who we are, to accept and be open to change. Not persuaded or guided by someone who doesn't understand. There must be a way that some may do, I'm tired of seeing the same old nonsense that is so obvious. Sorta like telling a sick person to get up, your fine and presto their all better. Not reality, like so many of the self proclaimed "famous" ones seem to outline.

What I find rather perplexing is the stereotyping.

I never thought of myself as much of a teacher, but thank you for saying that.

I think it says a lot more than these types think it says. They think they are asserting their moral superiority when in reality, they are engaging in the very things they are so angry at Narcissists about. On this website alone I have been subjected to verbal abuse several times by so called "empathetic" people, I am thankful that the moderators had enough humanity to remove those posts. Believe it or not, those things being said to me hurt. It hurt a lot. I am not evil, and I grow beyond sick of being called that or some variant thereof. I did not choose to be who and what I am.

Narcissism was one of my many diagnoses. It is not a current diagnosis. So, I suppose now I am a non.

I also did not choose to be who or what I am. I too appreciate talking to one who seems to understand. And, I have felt the sting of put-downs from non nons for reasons they deem acceptable.

Life has challenges for all of us.

Could it be the mask they speak of are of their own insight? The reflection is seen through their own eyes? Nons do have a choice that is easier to pick rather than one that was created for our minds to do as we see fit. One to survive in a way we could only come to terms with. People talk about empathy, understanding and so on yet in reality these same things cause so many pain because of their relying on "what is supposed to be". Is it our fault that we have a layer around us that makes it more difficult to cut through and cause the pain that we do not release. The pain that so many speak of because of a certain situation when our pain is caused in a much deeper format. One that we weren't to speak of, nobody we could turn to when needed to guide us through. Sure what happens isn't always the best when you are involved with one of us. But do know that we too suffer with the constant inner-self to figure out what and how we see and feel to be "our" truths!! Is it easier to be hurt and be able to walk a way, to heal and gain back your-self? Maybe you believe it's easier for someone like me who is now programmed and wired for nearly 40 years of a way that was normal to me. The same way you feel about you is the same way I felt about me for nearly my entire life. This means I am me for whatever I have, whatever I do and however I see. What may have been created for me, by me or some type of greater power for one like me to survive in a world that didn't hand me an instruction booklet of guidance. In simple terms it is easier to walk away from a painful situation that you were put into for a period of time. Try walking away from yourself!!! Let me know how that works out. Nons are not the enemy, people here for the most part are of good intentions. Every now and again we do get to see the ones determined to bring us down, to gain for themselves something back for what they see as what was taken by someone like us in their own lives. I came and continue to come here to be heard. I also come back so I can listen to what others have to say. Way's that some are either shaking their heads in disbelief and some that have zero understanding of some of the things we speak of. Truth is for nearly 40 years I have roamed this earth and never found someone like me. Not because I look at myself in a way that can compare to none (as the nons were thinking of lol) but when I am here I can see myself through others. The understanding without explaining. The reading of others notes and thinking wow they too understand. For a place like this is so important for a person to really fit in. Not create a part to fit into. We do have depth, one that isn't ever visible to most. Our strengths can also help others if in fact we only do it for ourselves. Nevertheless it still helps no matter which road is chosen in getting there. The outcome I guess is really the only thing that matters. We may not put you on a bed of roses and sing love songs (unless were trying to suck blood LOL) but we will open ourselves to resolving or at least show some why. To the nons here who I do speak to I appreciate you. I do like to have conversations with you and hear your things too. It shows me at times how I may be perceived or thought of and this helps me. I appreciate the fact that we can talk here in a way of non judgement and actually help eachother (as crazy as this may seem). To the nons that like to pass judgement here irritate me to no end. As I am sure you are all aware if you research NPD online all that comes up are the groups of people affected by "us" and nothing truly for "us" to help. The other day my wife was looking for a book on NPD and said to me they only have for people to rid themselves of people with NPD or the ones hurt by someone with NPD. Nothing about the individual with NPD!!! So what have we learned (besides my book should be written), we have learned that it's easy to paint a picture of us in a way that so many do. Just google NPD. We have been targeted by the masses. They cannot be helped, leave and don't look back, they will never change and so on. Here's a little secret to them and you have seen it in this forum time and time again, we too have feelings. Yes it's true we do feel. Our expressing of these feelings are just different. The non understanding that comes from what we dealt with is for our way out. Yes the depth needs to be shown so you can see another side as we have something that would take all these groups and books and toss them into another category. One day maybe, probably never. People will be people by basing beliefs on others ideals as it was, will and forever remain to be. Be yourself is our problem, our ideals are usually our own and as you can see people don't appreciate that as much. Please note that I no longer go back and check over. Just don't care as much anymore, you know who I am and how I write. If these type of things bother you than bypass my posts.

Who you are just is. It is an objective reality that few people ever see about themselves. I have seen a myriad of people who have no idea who they are, even though they believe they do.

When you become aware of who you are, it is so obviously true that it can only be accepted. It is self-evident.

Many of the types who publicly shame Narcissists seem to suffer from this unawareness of their Selves. People who are aware of and secure about who they are feel no need to stigmatize an entire group of people based off of a mere label.

Many would think me insecure, narcissistic, and evil simply because I know who I am and what I am about. Could one call me a Narcissist and be correct? Yes, if you are looking at the actual criteria for NPD and not the stereotypes of what kind of a person an NPD sufferer is.

But calling me a Narcissist as another way to say that I am evil? I will never stand for that. I am not a saint, I am fully aware of this fact. However, I have not done any more evil things than the average person. Yes, everyone does evil things just as everyone does good things.

Who I am is not dictated by what I do or what I have done. My Self is under a constant state of becoming, of being... An evolution of sorts and that journey of discovering your Self is life long. Human beings are not static and I am no exception. I am who I am, but that "who" is always going to be different than it was just yesterday. Not fundamentally different, who I am cannot be altered. But I grow, I advance my Self in all my affairs. I become a more authentic Me every day, as I peel back the layers of lies that resulted from the life I have lived.

I know what evil is. I have seen that force stare me in the face and that force has made serious attempts at taking my life. I am not that force of evil that so many would think me as simply because I am a narcissistic being. "Narcissist" is just a word for a certain kind of person. Good and evil are choices that people make, regardless of what label they are called.

And there it is. We know. You do not. Now go away.

LOL, simple and to the point!!

[QUOTE=Atypical_Disaster;4942761]Who you are just is. It is an objective reality that few people ever see about themselves. I have seen a myriad of people who have no idea who they are, even though they believe they do.

When you become aware of who you are, it is so obviously true that it can only be accepted. It is self-evident.

Many of the types who publicly shame Narcissists seem to suffer from this unawareness of their Selves. People who are aware of and secure about who they are feel no need to stigmatize an entire group of people based off of a mere label.

Many would think me insecure, narcissistic, and evil simply because I know who I am and what I am about. Could one call me a Narcissist and be correct? Yes, if you are looking at the actual criteria for NPD and not the stereotypes of what kind of a person an NPD sufferer is.

But calling me a Narcissist as another way to say that I am evil? I will never stand for that. I am not a saint, I am fully aware of this fact. However, I have not done any more evil things than the average person. Yes, everyone does evil things just as everyone does good things.

Who I am is not dictated by what I do or what I have done. My Self is under a constant state of becoming, of being... An evolution of sorts and that journey of discovering your Self is life long. Human beings are not static and I am no exception. I am who I am, but that "who" is always going to be different than it was just yesterday. Not fundamentally different, who I am cannot be altered. But I grow, I advance my Self in all my affairs. I become a more authentic Me every day, as I peel back the layers of lies that resulted from the life I have lived.

I know what evil is. I have seen that force stare me in the face and that force has made serious attempts at taking my life. I am not that force of evil that so many would think me as simply because I am a narcissistic being. "Narcissist" is just a word for a certain kind of person. Good and evil are choices that people make, regardless of what label they are called.[/QUOTE/

Hello my friend, it has been a while!!! Always appreciate to see you here and read your inspiring comments!! NPD seems to make magic happen at times doesn't it?

Hello friend, as usual your posts are a refreshing read. I had to have some time alone with my thoughts hence my absence until recently. As you can see my time with my thoughts has done much good, as I am back to really writing... digging deeper. Funny that we both posted close to the same time and along a similar vein, this pattern of you and I posting at the same time probably makes people think we are doing it on purpose but alas, no... Just that NPD magic as you aptly put it.

"Please note that I no longer go back and check over. Just don't care as much anymore, you know who I am and how I write. If these type of things bother you than bypass my posts." quote Underground

Not such a bad thing at all, maybe you need a break from perfection and control so you realize you can survive without it.

Well, as you have all said before, this is your support group. So, whether we nons agree with you or not, you have each other.

You sharing your depth is a start.

From my perspective this seems true, too. They are unaware of their own dark aspects. And end up acting them out. The thread on narcissists in vindictive phases for instance. I could have handled my part better, had I been more aware at the time. I acted on my need to defend. . .something. . .my own dark parts, I guess? But for me to suggest that non-narcissists can be vindictive, too. . .absolutely unacceptable to many.

Very good post. Everyone has a dark side, nobody is an exception to that rule. It seems many people have not made friends with that dark side, so it ends up coming out in insulting those who have a darker nature than most(a Narcissist like me).

Anyone can be vindictive or otherwise destructive. Destructive behavior is not limited to any label. I've seen people who have high levels of empathy do truly terrible things, you don't have to lack empathy to commit evil acts.

Not to sure about this one. Why write this? Is this to say we are not open to others and we only see ones alike to understand? If so I think the points are being missed.

When I came here this morning in the home page I saw someone write about narcissists. Once again the same old crap of leave and be free was spread for others to bow down and praise the lord to. I'm so sick of this as these people think they are shedding light by imitating all others who continue to do this time and time again. I have included my comment to her and the ridiculous responses before:
So quick are we to always say what we think we understand? It's pretty obvious that "generally" speaking leads to false beliefs as the small amount of comments show here. Someone who continues to say that you have to cut out a person with NPD is like saying the same because of a race or religion. Your broadness of an issue is so limited and wrong as you show with your thoughts that your the same as the thousands who continue to echo the same types of ideas. Let's think for a second about the person with the real issue, is this or the thousands of others worrying about themselves doing anything to help them? No, not even a chance. Is it that simple that you truly believe that all with NPD don't want to be better? To find help in something they feel is impossible? Once again, another person taking the road to them. One is called narcissistic and yet the ones who wrote all these things are somewhat the same. Leave the narcissist and feel better..... Too simple isn't it? More times than none these people who tend to have so many Ns in their lives leads me to believe that said individual has problems of their own. Let's finally wake up and be real, this is a two sided event that always becomes one sided. One sided because of the narcissists narcissistic partner, friend, family member etc. Someone who is able to have something like empathy or simple understanding doesn't make you better it just gives you something a narcissist doesn't have. Let's think FOR ONCE about the ones suffering within themselves rather than yourself. And yet you are so quick to label a narcissist.
Now I know it would of been best for me to just let this go but I felt the necessity of giving a twist to their one sided fixes. I guess restraint isn't one of my qualities lol. Anyhow I will assume all the backlash soon enough from all the narcissistic nons that will respond soon enough

I think it was good that you just vented what you did above. If you read something here at PC about narcissists, take into consideration that this site has a large number of individuals that have been victims of individuals that treated them badly and tend to label these individuals as narcissists. Yes, there are lots of articles about narcissists, as a matter of fact I have posted some myself.

I think for you though, because you have been labelled that, you take it personally. However, that same "anger" happens to take place with "any" label that is criticized and thought of as "bad or less than". I happened to watch a Bill Mahar show on HBO last night and they were saying all kinds of nasty things about Republicans making fun of them, and people who are republicans can say some mean things about Liberals too.

Then I go and sit down with my therapist and vent about how bad people can be and his response is, society has become very narcissistic. So when you say, "More times than none these people who tend to have so many Ns in their lives leads me to believe that said individual has problems of their own." Bingo, you have it.

"Is it that simple that you truly believe that all with NPD don't want to be better? To find help in something they feel is impossible?" you ask? The fact that you are even asking that is important because from my understanding most with NPD don't.

First of all the beginning of getting better/improving comes when one allows their wall to come down and admit some of their vulnerabilities. That is hard for anyone to do never mind someone with NPD. The individual that is interested in reducing what they feel as impossible to change motem of operations for them has to look at what they really operate off of and try to change these behavior patterns so they can slowly learn how they can actually let go a bit and survive and make progress.

You need to find the things that stress you the most and work on developing ways of reducing whatever part "you" play in these stressors. Your development of NPD has come from trauma so that is why I suggested working with a trauma specialist.

How are things going, Underground?

Things are going. Thank you for asking. I have stopped some medicines I have been on and feel exactly the same. Have yet to find my cure. Although I just started a new one that seems to have a lot of positive feedback. I am looking for peace, to not feel the struggle at all times. I do now attend church again to try and gain it spiritually but it's still a work in progress. I suppose the constant echoes of my mother play a big role in my issues. My father passed two months ago and she is still up to her same old same old. My sister too plays a part in the issues that go along with our beautiful family structure. The one good thing is my brother had awoken and has finally seen the things I have spoken of for so long. I am just greatful for my own family, my wife is my true savior. The one who I have put everything into and allowed myself to be me with. 16 years of marriage and I have learned so many things from her. We have had our issues as most marriages do but the resolve we have for one another has allowed our relationship to grow stronger and stronger with each passing year. I am lucky for having someone who gets the real me. Who I can tell my darkest thoughts to and she understands and more importantly doesn't judge. In retrospect I am a narcissist who has learned to be a better person for at least my wife. I look back and see that I have done things as much as I didn't want to and it has made me a better husband. All I can say is thank god my kids have her or they too would be messed up LOL!! Well that's were I'm at now. Thanks again for checking in.