[here today]

As I’ve mentioned before my two “dark” parts are a male (probably introject from my dad) egocentric, grandiose, and self-loving. I started calling him Antisocial although he’s really not that, but that’s what I’ve called him so I’ll continue to use it here. The other I call Female Snotty B***h or F.S. for short. I had a really hard time getting in touch with her.

So I’ve been looking at these “motives” from outside and now a little from inside, too.

Learning to accept them is part of why I’ve been in this forum, I suspect. It was nothing I consciously set out to do, just an opportunity to participate in something I wanted to try.

The overtly (male) grandiose part didn’t feel dangerous, just socially unacceptable. So I’ve accepted that feeling pretty well within myself, don’t have to act it out a lot.

Allowing and accepting Female Snotty has been harder – but I have a cat who has helped me. She can’t say, of course, “you’re not petting me with that other hand and I want you too, I feel slighted and I’m mad about it” when I’m sitting at the computer desk and petting her with one hand. So she mouths, slightly bites, the hand that is using the mouse.

So that’s it! Antisocial (motivation) says “I’m great!” Female Snotty says “If you hurt me I’ll hurt you back.” When all her impulses to do that kind of thing got shamed and stymied, the feeling got very pathological and “malignant” even though in my case I have mostly directly that energy at myself.

Are Antisocial and Female Snotty my True Self? How about, they are part of it.

[leomama]

It sounds like you are talking about DID. For me my tendency towards narcissism is because of my intelligence. I still struggle to listen to those who are not mentally gifted.

[Atypical_Disaster]

I find it interesting that you see the male "part" in a far more positive light than the female. He's just "the Antisocial". She, however, is a "snotty *****".

This might sound a bit nuts, but bear with me:

Change her name to something that isn't negative. Go for neutral if necessary, but just do it. I'm serious.

Nobody likes being called a "snotty *****". You're hurting her by calling her that, is it any wonder she's hard to communicate with?

[here today]

"She" is really OK with it at this point. Like what some black people call each other, as terms of inclusion and endearment in a way, but if anybody else does . . .

"I" admire her feisty energy. I called her that initially just as a way to try to describe who/what she was like to my therapist. But we "know" each other better now.

Maybe another name as a way to "have" her around and see what she's like if she's not in "fight" mode, maybe?

But "I" (the me that is in this forum) had to shun her -- even though it was her own energy that was used to do that? How weird is that? To keep her "out" and not showing the energy that wanted to hurt other people, which was dangerous for me to let anybody see when I was a child.

So, "I" really do like her at this point. She was/is trying. She "is" a part of me -- even though I can't have her around and be a part of my family. . .Weep. (Though I can't really even do that, still stymied, I guess.)

And maybe also to the point -- I love myself some because I have Antisocial's energy around sometimes saying I'm great! Because it isn't socially unacceptable, in this forum at least, to say that!

But I'm also concerned, still, at how society looks at these motivations -- still pretty totally negative. Not recognizing they have value, or potential value in some contexts. And the inadequate psychotherapy profession is currently promoting a lot of that, it seems to me. And I think that is very dangerous. Not just, as it has been, for me.

OK -- F.S.'s new name is "The Advocate".

[here today]

Originally Posted by leomama

It sounds like you are talking about DID. For me my tendency towards narcissism is because of my intelligence. I still struggle to listen to those who are not mentally gifted.

I was diagnosed Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified -- Like DID only there is a common "I" that is always around.

I'm intellectually "gifted", too. Probably still some, though not as much since I'm older.

Makes sense then, that we would depend on our own intelligence to figure things out and not depend on others so much for that. Which could lead to them feeling slighted. I still want/need people in order to feel loved, close, etc. Not easy to deal with, especially after we're grown and have habits, defenses, etc.

[leomama]

Being intellectually gifted is real and it does not go away in adulthood .
I think we each have our own constellation of symptoms, traits, temperaments. I have a chronic case of PTSD so I'm tough and independent . In fact at this point much of my narcissism is defensive, when I feel threatened I fight and I get in trouble. I hope to stop that kind of behavior for good.

[here today]

I used the myself as an example in the OP, but I'm really interested in trying to say that narcissistic and even "malignant" narcissistic MOTIVES, as opposed to ingrained personality characteristics, are not inherently without value and thus need to be expunged from the personality, as I was sort of (but not entirely) able to do, to my detriment.

So, yes, if you feel threatened, perhaps unrealistically because of the PTSD, but still threatened, your narcissism as you described it, may well kick in. In my view, it's a lower-level "survival" motive. Are you familiar with the Polyvagal theory? That kind of speaks to that, as well as the 4 fight, flight, freeze, fawn responses that I think you mentioned.

I had a fractured, non-whole sense of self. So trying to get those split off/dissociated (because of trauma) parts to work, much less be, together has really been a bear.

I suppose I can allow some guest excerpts into my book. Great work all, love the way you break it down. Only one big thing is missing here............... Seeing my name HA HA HA HA HA AH HA HA

[leomama]

Originally Posted by here today

I used the myself as an example in the OP, but I'm really interested in trying to say that narcissistic and even "malignant" narcissistic MOTIVES, as opposed to ingrained personality characteristics, are not inherently without value and thus need to be expunged from the personality, as I was sort of (but not entirely) able to do, to my detriment.

So, yes, if you feel threatened, perhaps unrealistically because of the PTSD, but still threatened, your narcissism as you described it, may well kick in. In my view, it's a lower-level "survival" motive. Are you familiar with the Polyvagal theory? That kind of speaks to that, as well as the 4 fight, flight, freeze, fawn responses that I think you mentioned.

I had a fractured, non-whole sense of self. So trying to get those split off/dissociated (because of trauma) parts to work, much less be, together has really been a bear.

I don't feel unrealistically threatened. I, like you, am complex, and actually I have complex PTSD. Since I don't have DID I can't advise you on that. Have you thought about cross posting to the DID forum? I don't see my tendency towards narcissism as a separate part of me. The internalized critical voices of my family, ex, and some friends are not me, but they are in me. That is what I want to expunge or silence. The way others have spoken to me has not been good. Now as an adult I can stay clear of those who hurt me.

[here today]

Originally Posted by leomama

I don't feel unrealistically threatened. I, like you, am complex, and actually I have complex PTSD. Since I don't have DID I can't advise you on that. Have you thought about cross posting to the DID forum? I don't see my tendency towards narcissism as a separate part of me. The internalized critical voices of my family, ex, and some friends are not me, but they are in me. That is what I want to expunge or silence. The way others have spoken to me has not been good. Now as an adult I can stay clear of those who hurt me.

I'm doing OK, thanks, on the dissociation. I don't, and didn't, have DID.

[leomama]

Originally Posted by here today

I'm doing OK, thanks, on the dissociation. I don't, and didn't, have DID.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. I didn't think we were talking about dissociation , I thought we were talking about fragmented selves, or identity issues. Im glad things are working out for you.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Underground

I suppose I can allow some guest excerpts into my book. Great work all, love the way you break it down. Only one big thing is missing here............... Seeing my name HA HA HA HA HA AH HA HA

Thanks! That means a lot, coming from you.

And so -- you have put your name on it, too!!!

[here today]

Originally Posted by leomama

I don't feel unrealistically threatened. I, like you, am complex, and actually I have complex PTSD. Since I don't have DID I can't advise you on that. Have you thought about cross posting to the DID forum? I don't see my tendency towards narcissism as a separate part of me. The internalized critical voices of my family, ex, and some friends are not me, but they are in me. That is what I want to expunge or silence. The way others have spoken to me has not been good. Now as an adult I can stay clear of those who hurt me.

I've thought some more about this and I think we may have had different responses to trauma.

I believe I dissociated/disowned my narcissistic tendencies somewhat -- that's not entirely possible, how that worked I don't entirely know (there are some theories I could cite), but I tended not to have/allow them into my consciousness -- especially any "desire" to hurt someone (That's AWFUL. Not to be allowed! What a horrible person that is, etc. Not taking into account, sometimes . . .) Or maybe it's just regular old "repression". At any rate I had disowned those "parts"/motivations I mentioned.

And I also "owned" the internal critical voices, putting myself down before someone else could do it first.

Sounds like maybe you are and have been aware of your narcissistic tendencies and you and experience the internal critical voices as not-you. Which is probably "healthier" -- or less something -- or maybe just different than the way I was.

Does that sound like anything that makes sense to you?

[leomama]

I don't think the critical voices have anything to do with narcissism , for me, narcissism, for me, is unwillingness to listen to those with slower minds.