Just me being picky ;)

Just wanted to apologize for my language.. the dragon made me do it...

I see what you're saying DE... some forms of mental illness even make proper grammer an impossibility. Somewhere I read schizotypes often exhibit all lowercase writing, including "i" and proper nouns... Dyslexics also have difficulty with proper english. Some of us have been learning impaired by a mental illness... doesn't mean we're ignorant, just behind... We have an international community and some members use english as a second language.

I think Heathers complaint is valid, for her and others. How can anyone argue that reading mis-spellings is challenging? I think if we look at the original message, we can hear a request, more than a complaint. She's asked for something that would benefit us all, and those who care to respond, and are able to respond, may. Heather has improved the quality of our site by asking. For me, it's true that proper english and spelling is a matter of pride, but, I can demand that of myself. I can only suggest it to others. Some may not have the capability or ability.

I think this situation is a great microcosm of the larger picture for some of us. Some have the ability to improve, some are doing all they can to keep up, still others simply can't do more. Those of us who can could accept a challenge and try harder. Those who are doing all they can, and those who can't do more, should not allow unchosen limits to add to an already difficult predicament by feeling like failures. We can ask ourselves if we are being honest by believing we can, or can't do more, or simply making excuses to stay where we are.

I'm amazed by what good can come from "conflict."

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Hi there, nowheretorun
In this part of your reply, "I see what you're saying DE... some forms of mental illness even make proper grammer an impossibility" (I'm sure you meant grammar? ha!ha!)

This is close, but is not "exactly" ALL of the point I was trying to get across, there are people WITHOUT any mental illness that just may need a "shoulder" or some form of support that have come here and may have a PHYSICAL disability that limits their typing, and may make typo errors, thus being viewed as "mispellings", in consideration of those members/visitors I feel there should be some clearence in regards into all the "rules of proper writing" given. . . and then hey who said this website was about writing composition, it is a MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT site right?
Again, I see all of your points, but there are some considerations we need to take if this is to be a "support" type of site.
Best wishes,
that we can all come to a happy medium here someday soon
"darkeyes"

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

I see your poynt

Take care......

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

At the risk of violating my own rule of "always being entitled to your opinion, not always entitled to express it", I am going to do just that.

First of all, many of us have been blessed with a natural "talent" or perhaps just the benefit of a good education and have the ability to spell correctly and so forth. However, there are many who are not blessed in that area, be it due to an inclination towards other areas of learning or even a learning disability.

As the daughter of a man who has struggled with literacy issues his enitre life, I have come to see what a true disability the inability to read or write or spell can be and it is important to me. It has also made me sensitive to the needs of others who are in the same situation, as I have seen him struggle with his disability and watched him deal with the humiliation and self-esteem issues that have come along with it on a daily basis.

Is it annoying having to read mispelled words at times, probably---if we choose to make it annoying. Just as I am sure it has been annoying for my father to have had to turn down job promotions and to have never been able to fill out paper work without my mother's assistance or to write a check without having one to look at to make sure he didn't embarrass himself with his inability to spell. It isn't something he has chosen for himself, nor do I imagine others who have difficulties with this issue, choose it for themselves! It is a disability nothing more!

How many of us would feel comfortable pointing out or voicing our annoyances at someone with another type of disability? When held up in the line at a store as a blind person counts out their change, when we are in a hurry? When someone with cerebal palsy struggles to speak to us? When we have to wait, some of us impatiently, for an elderly person with a walker or wheelchair to cross the street? Or a person with CFS or depression or anxiety "ruins" our plans simply because they aren't feeling quite up to it??

Probably not many of us would feel the right or the need to tell these people to hurry up and get out of our way or to tell the person with severe depression to "just snap out of it"! Those who struggle with the issue brought to attention in this forum, should be afforded the same degree of consideration as they struggle with their disability too!

If we are annoyed then deal with it! Where on earth is there this big written in stone rule that says we are never going to be annoyed and if we are then we by God had better figure out how to get rid of it so we won't have to be annoyed any longer???

We are a mental health support community----I for one am a bit ashamed to think that there may have been people who have come to this board seeking mental health support, who have read this thread, and despite their urgent need, realizing their own limitations,have been too intimidated to post and left without asking for the very support they sought and we are supposedly offering.

Just my opinion, and I know that I am not always entitled to express it, but I felt that there were those out there who needed a voice on this board--be they members or just visitors in need.....as we all once were!

Thank you, Deanna

Hi Deanna

I do respect your opinion and your thoughts on this subject.

I worked in the health field working with mentally and physically challenged adults for quite a few years. I know the struggles they have each and everyday. My boyfriend has troubles with spelling...his daughter has the same problems with grammar. I am probably the most non judgemental person you will ever meet as well as having more patience than I wish I had.

I will again post my opinion...your post bothered me. I feel awful that you think that people would be turned away from this board due to my post. This is sad.

To be honest with you all....if I could go back and delete my post I would. After all of the replies that I received where my opinion and thoughts were misconstrued....I would. This was not worth it to me.

From now on, I will keep my thoughts to myself. No hard feelings anyone...this was what I wanted to avoid.


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

Heather,

I did not mean for my post to be directed at you or anyone else personally---only as another voice on the matter. Perhaps even as a statement about society in general.

I do believe that you did not intend to suggest anything other than an expression of your opinion and that you did so with no intent towards malice to anyone.

Take care and God bless!! Deanna

Thanks for expressing yor opinion that we shouldn't always express our opinion... maybe now we can get back to avoidance as our main system of dealing with our problems and the resulting repression and depression from lack of expression.... You've gone miles toward supporting the depressed... to stay depressed.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

(((((((((((((Heather))))))))))))

It's just wrong that you should feel you can't express yourself....

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

First of all you will notice the use of the word "my"--a PERSONAL pronoun used to describe a rule that is "MY" rule as in "ME"---not you, or them, or they, or he, or she.

Secondly, no one said anything about avoidance or repression----discretion maybe but not avoidance or repression--BIG difference there!

Good lord if I decided to shoot my mouth off and call everyone on the planet an a-hole that I personally felt was an a-hole---what good would that do? The very fact that I believe someone to be such is far from the total reality that the person can be verified as one. It is validated by me to myself as my own opinion and nothing more, but does it always serve a purpose to voice that opinion---no. Sometimes to voice my opinion serves only one purpose and that is to do nothing more than vindicate my own feelings----I don't NEED to voice that opinion to others to have it validated----as I have validated it for myself and have looked at it honestly and realized where it is coming from. Maybe the person really is an a-hole or maybe I have just percieved them to be one and they are quite the opposite.

That is not denial or repression or avoidance. That is simply looking inside of myself honestly and not allowing my own "feelings" about a person cloud my judgement of what the situation actually is. It is reality and an exercise in self-awareness and the refusal on my own part to to allow myself to be ruled by my "feelings" and to somehow feel vindicated and justified by shooting my mouth off at another's expense.

The way I "feel" about someone is not always the best way to see them clearly--- as I have learned that with my anxiety disorder I have a tendency to see things through my "feelings" and not my logical thought process. I realize that I am hyper-sensitive at times and have to make a choice to not react and voice all of my opinions, based totally on the faulty thought process that has gone on in my head that has led me to that opinion in the first place.

So this is why FOR ME I have the rule FOR MYSELF that I am always entitled to my opinion, I am not always entitled to express it.------Deanna

{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}

Thank you as always. I agree with you...I truly do. I was raised to keep my opinions to myself...any problems - just sweep them under that big ol mat.

Maybe this isn't the place for me as I thought it was a place to come for recovery, support, healing and moving on. If I have to keep my thoughts to myself then that really isn't a good spot for me to be in.

Thank you all for welcoming me into your family and I wish you all the best. Take care.


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

I can totally appreciate not being able to trust your own judgment. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not pretending to have all the answers, I just believe that open discussion is how we develop judgment. Your opinions are as valuable as anyone elses. Some statements are assinine and sometimes after we've said them, we're made aware of our own errors in thought, thanks to others who are willing to express their opinion regarding our opinion. Staying silent denies that opportunity to learn. Avoiding conflict is avoiding life. That could be why virtual forums are so popular. Here, we're allowed to express ourselves more freely than real life. Our real life is actually the simulated life. We come here to express what we really feel.

On the topic of expression, I gotta ask, what would life be like for certain groups if they hadn't voiced their opinion? African Americans, Native Americans, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Israeli's, Americans, Homosexuals, Artists, Authors, Composers, Presidents, ...... ?

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Speaking for myself, hopefully others will agree... We have a place for you sweetie... please don't go.

((((((((((((((((((( Hugs for Heather ))))))))))))))))))

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Heather}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I too was raised to keep my opinions to myself. I have been a member of several websites in the year and a half I have been on line, and I truly believe that this is one of the best, with some of the most caring and genuine people I have ever met. There have also been a few *bad eggs* during my time here, (as there are sometimes on all websites...) I hope that you decide to stay - I, for one, would miss you.

Hugs,
Fuzzy

Darrel... you're so right. So many times it's been said by so many people that this forum is for just that... to express our feelings but lately, there's been way too much arguing about how people here, feel. Seems like some of us are entitled to ask for small favors and some aren't. Not too long ago, someone asked that we don't run all our posts into one paragraph and I don't remember anyone raising such a stink! Personally, it tweaked me so I didn't respond in any way. Now, without thinking, I find myself breaking up my posts into smaller paragraphs.

I know exactly what Heather is talking about because we've discussed it. It's not the people that come on here in extra pain, not is it from people with possible learning disabilities.

Heather and I don't pay that much attention to grammar because we know ours isn't "perfect." We are aware that on the internet, people shorten words, spellings, etc. It's NOT that which we're speaking about. It's blatant unawareness and/or not carring about how they type. It seems they hit just whatever key is in the proximity of the one they need!

EXAMPLE: the word "jealous" = jalioueasx... or something like that. I mean out and out carelesness!

Bottom line: If you can't type well enough to make yourself understood, you can't communicate!!

And (wrong way to start a sentense) whatever happened to being aware of other people's feelings? There ARE real people on the other side of the screen with real feelings and real needs. Seems like all we've been caring about lately is OUR OWN feelings, OUR OWN bad times and haven't bothered to think outside OUR OWN boxes.

Can we just let it go now, please???

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Your place is here with us Heather. You had an opinion. Part of the right of expressing one's opinion is that others also have the right to express thier opinion.

I know the purpose of your original post was not to create a battle ground or make people feel bad about themselves.

No one has to agree. There is no reason to bicker or cut someone down. For me when people get personal or just plain nasty it pretty much makes thier point null. I don't want to listen to someone who speaks their mind which is good but then in the same breath gets condesending toward another.

Your not doing that and I value your opinion very much. I am sure you didn't expect this thread to turn into a battle of wits and insults.

Don't go away, we need you here. You're so important. Please don't let this ruin it for you.

Special hugs :O)
Heidu

The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin

heather, I hope you don't decide that this isn't the place for you...you are a valuable contributor to this forum, and your presence would be missed.

I don't think it matters where you go, there is always a risk when you express an opinion, that others will disagree with that opinion. I think everyone here tries to be as supportive as possible, but even here, there will be disagreements.

As I read through this thread, I think it is clear that some people took your comment to mean more than you intended...after all, you were not commenting on posts with one or two typos. But I also think some people expressed a concern that worrying about their typing or spelling might deter some people who really need help from posting. I think I know you well enough to know that you would never want to discourage other people from seeking help here.

Anyway, what I am trying, ever so awkwardly, to say, is that you should absolutely feel free to express your opinions here...unfortunately, here, as anywhere else, there will occasionally be misunderstandings, and your words may not come across to others as you truly meant them. But I certainly hope that any disagreements will be expressed with respect.

So, please stay with us, and please keep expressing yourself freely.

*hugs*
mj

((((((((((((<font color=red>(HEATHER</font color=red>)))))))))))))))...

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT</font color=blue>

I don't believe this was her intention, I think there is a HUGE lack of communication here and some are getting extremely defensive which is nonproductive to all.
The original post made a statement, people reacted, giving their input, did anyone think a post of that nature wouldn't get a response? EVERYONE here was entitled to reply, due to the fact that it was a public post and not a PM, unfortunately some did not want to see the big picture in regards to spelling/mispelling, etc.
At this point (and not being avoidant) this is another topic/post/reply situation that will have to be dropped, and again all of us try to move on. For goodness sakes isn't there something that WE can talk about without all the defensive, non productive replies lately???
Crazy Aunt Dee has NOT gone miles toward supporting the depressed to stay depressed, re-read her reply and you will see, so far she is a person that is speaking with compassion for others, unlike the others here. . ."just my opinion"
The original post can and will be deleted if Heather so wishes, just say the word, Heather.
Enough said, let's try again to stick to the "main purpose" of support forums instead of turning every post into a major debate. If forums of debate is what our members are seeking, then I think this is the wrong website for it.
Again, like many have said at this thread, "I do not mean to offend anyone here"

"darkeyes"

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Heather}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}},

I had been trying to stay out of this as I felt that I had caused enough trouble already.

It looks like self expression turns out to be an issue for a lot of us. Being hesitant about taking a chance and saying what is on your mind, then feeling bad because what you said doesn't seem to be accepted. Maybe we're not clear on what is okay to express and what isn't, whether by ourselves or someone else. I'm using "we" because I'm included in this dilemma.

How I see it is that we all have the right to an opinion, and there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion. Heather, I don't think anyone minds that you made the comments that started this thread. I accept that that was how you felt and you have every right to say so. The other side of it is that other people also have the right to their own opinions, even if they don't agree, and some who don't agree will also want to talk about it. I don't think that anyone meant to attack anyone else or invalidate anyone else's opinion.

Sometimes we do need to exercise discretion in sharing our opinions. If we have an opinion that we know will hurt someone else, we need to use some judgement concerning whether or not to express that opinion (such as if we think someone is an arsehole). We also can be cautious if we are going to be bothered by hearing responses to our opinion that don't agree with it. If we will be hurt if someone disagrees, that is our problem, and we can talk about it, but we just need to recognize that a difference of opinion exists.

What would make it better? I think that I did make a mistake in my replies on this thread. Rather than starting a discussion about perfectionism in this thread, I should have started a new thread to talk about my concerns. Then it would have seemed, as it was, more about my concern than about what you wrote. I apologize for my mistake, and, Heather, I hope you feel free to express yourself here. I appreciate your comments and opinions, and I usually agree with them. You are a valued member of this group.

{{{{{hugs}}}}}}
Wendy

<font color=purple>"The real problem of mental life is not why some people become insane, but rather why most avoid insanity." -Erich Fromm</font color=purple>

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your replies and pm's.

I think I mentioned in an earlier post....when conflict happens I want to avoid it...run and hide. Thinking about leaving is my way of avoidance. I don't think it is a good idea to delete the post...that just gives me something to hide behind. Thank you anyway for the offer. If we can move on and learn from this, all the better.

I did not mean to cause such a discussion....I wasn't expecting such an outpour to tell you the truth. I was thinking more in the lines of when kvinn posted a while ago asking us to paragraph our responses....made us all think and then move on. I have noticed that there is a change in how some of the posts are due to his request. That was all I was thinking. I will be honest...I am still saddened as this post generated so much of a response but yet everyone respected what was asked before....just makes you think you know?

I appreciate all of you and think so much of you all.

Thank you


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

Hey Heather,

FWIW, having you around has become a happy and important part of my day. I needed you to know that. Thanks for being there.

Hugs back,
bp

"The brain is a wonderful organ; it starts working the moment you get up in the morning and does not stop until you get to work."

Aunt Dee

This is my apology for any harm I've caused you due to my earlier statement. I should have said that oppression of expression has gone miles towards supporting the depressed to stay depressed and not that YOU have done it yourself. Just wanted to clarify....

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

I was wrong to attack Aunt Dee, and I'm sorry... I meant to attack the IDEA of oppression, not her personally...

I'm not sorry if I've disturbed everyones comfort lately... I'm not accepting the paint it over, pop a pill, chase a rainbow therapy anymore. It's my opinion we've all been handed a load of crap and told it is cherry pie. We've "learned to deal" by not dealing.... So it's hell looking reality in the eye... I'd rather have squirrel for supper than a rat disguised as Peking Duck. If I'm not to be allowed to express myself, I'll find elsewhere to go too.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}



Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

Heather? I hope you are staying.......you are so important and such a help.

Nowhere? Same for you, your posts are so intuitive and I enjoy them immensely.....they make me think. Please stay as well.